Source
r/DIY•
lightningface

Stain on window sill comes off if they get wet- what did the homes old owners do (or not do) and how should we fix this?

help

We bought a 100 year old house, old owners lived here for 40 years and did some work which we are now discovering is... creative.

The first time it rained and we were still learning which windows the rain would come in, some of the window sills got wet and the towels I used to dry them now have stain on them (and one curtain too).

What did they do wrong when they stained these? Did they not seal them, can I just do that now? The stain is displaced where the water was, can I just get a damp cloth and spread it around again before I seal it (if that’s what I need to do)?

Thank you!!

Posted Dec 20, 2020, 1:30 PM UTC

21156
dc010•

Sounds like they didn't use a stain, maybe a dye. I would think that sanding and actually staining them would be your best course. Something that seals it might work as well, with less effort. However, I'm just an amateur woodworker, not a contractor.

135
burlyxylophone406•

Painter here. I would agree with the assumption that they did not use a proper oil stain to seep into the pores of the wood. I would sand it down to raw and re stain it then put a clear coat of some sort on top to seal it up.

91
Warsav•

If this is a 100 year old house there is probably lead paint. Proceed with caution OP

63
drunkendataenterer•

Nah it's fine, sand on you crazy diamond. Paint has lead, not stain. But maybe Google it first cause I don't know what I'm talking about

41
WhyHulud•

Nah it's fine, sand on you crazy diamond. Paint has lead, not stain.

Seems like the folks above think it's a dye. Fabric dyes can be used for dyeing wood, and some older dyes can contain lead.

I wouldn't have known this either, unless I went down a rabbit hole.

19
RogueJello•

Old fashioned varnish does contain lead occasionally. Some testing strips from the hardware store should catch anything that would harm adults.

5
syco54645•

Now there's a look in your eyes like black holes in the sky

1
hengamp•

They’re talking about stained wood.

0
tralphaz43•

Nope

0
frollard•

Would it be possible they left too much stain on the surface, without the proper wipe-down step, so that the remnants were soluble and ran when wet?

1
jkoudys•

I've dyed wood a bit and have always been happy with the results. If anything I find it holds better than a stain, so long as you wash and blot the excess up a few times.

Old, poor quality (usually a poorly prepared surface) gel stains I find are the worst offenders. They barely enter the wood, so if you soak them in water they can rub off like old latex paint.

It's also entirely possible that the wood isn't intentionally darkened at all. Old rust and grime could collect over decades, and look like a finish, but wipe off with a bit of water. If they did a consistently poor job with renos, it's fair to assume they weren't thoroughly cleaning either.

38
ribnag•

Your last point is what I was suspecting - I used to live in a house like the OP describes, and wiping down just about any original wood in the house would leave the cloth brown to black. It wasn't because stain/dye was coming off, but it was more like a "patina" on the wood itself.

12
Artisanbold•

Having also lived in a number of old houses, plus having had op's leaking window experience this is what I would suspect as well.

7
dc010•

I've never used a dye or a gel stain, didn't even know gel stains were a thing, but I've always had good results with every stain I've tried, so this was a heavy assumption on my part. It could also be that they didn't even use a product meant for wood like "Honey, do you think that dye you used for your pants would work on the wood?" type situation.

5
jkoudys•

Hah well wood is very easy to dye. One of my favourite shelves I did with some orange food colouring to match a piece of oak to the big mid century teak dresser it lived next to. Gave it a few rubs to darken it, then finished in tung oil. Never expected much from it, but 4 years later of heavy use as a nightstand and many spilled baby bottles and sippy cups, and it still looks good.

9
UncleGizmo•

I think it’s more an indicator of poor weather proofing. A dye is fine assuming the interior won’t get wet from seepage. If moisture/water is getting in, though, that will be a problem for dye as well as paint - latex could bubble up and oil paint could cause the wood underneath to slowly rot.

For your immediate problem, an oil based stain will work better than a water based one but it doesn’t fix the underlying issue which is the weatherproofing.

5
Demolishonor•

They also may have used a water based over an oil. I know many who are guilty of this and end up with paint that rubs off.

2
Just_Rook•

Shellac comes up under warm water, easily. It was a widely used wood finish before the arrival of more durable poly. A lot of high end old furniture cannot be cleaned with a wet rag without softening the finish and turning it creamy and opaque; and this is why rings from drinks were a lot more common on old furniture. My bet is the windows were stained and then shellac over it as the top coat, OR a darker shellac was used by itself.

59
Paupy•

Shellac

This is the correct answer. Before 1930 and the advent of varnish and lacquers, shellac was used as a wood treatment. https://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infpai/shellac.html

15
pusher_robot_•

The upside of shellac is that it's very easy to maintain, since you can easily layer new shellac on old with decent results.

10
Just_Rook•

This. With denatured alcohol and shellac on a pad, wrapped in a rag, you can blend the new layer into the old. Shellac also sands very well, turns to dust rather than gunk like poly.

3
flaming_urethra•

Yeah I was going to say this too. This is most likely the case.

May parents house from 1910ish still had 100% original interior woodworking and this was the case with their finish.

6
pusher_robot_•

Shellac actually has quite good water resistance. It comes up easily with alcohol but will certainly not be softened by wet rag.

5
Just_Rook•

New shellac, yes. But it is not impervious to water. Go put a damp rag on your nice shellac-finished furniture. You'll get a creamy white haze in the finish which tells you it has softened. Scrub with a rag and it will come off on the rag. This will even happen with poly, but takes a very long time and the film has to be degraded.

Seen it happen many times, as a kid with my mom's nice things (not fun; never forget being yelled at for it) and as an adult trying to clean off furniture snagged from the side of the road and as a professional refinishing old homes.

Keep in mind, shellac degrades over time, and by this point scrubbing with a wet rag will take it off. The shellac gets soft and gummy, and the rag turns brown. You are right about the alcohol though; alcohol will definitely do this much faster and more aggressively.

7
Paupy•

Your windows are shellacked. Shellac was a very common wood finish in homes build before the 1930's and it's still used today though varnish and lacquers now dominate the market. Here's an article that might be helpful to you, "Maintaining Shellac Finish on Wood Features in Your Historic Building" https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Article/CS4249

39
Lehk•

It’s not even hard to get, most Walmart’s and home centers will have several varieties.

2
s33761•

That would be why they used "Bees Wax" to help make it water resistant.

1
Jibaro123•

I lived in a house from 1892.

The front hall had quarter sawn white oak covered with a coat of shellac. You might just have shellac, especially if it's kind of orangey. It comes in different hues.

There was a grease fire in the kitchen decades earlier, so the wood was quite dark.

Shellac is best removed with denatured alcohol. It was quite easy in the scheme of things to remove the shellac with the alcohol, #1 steel wool, and a rag.

If it is still too dark, a saturated solution of oxalic acid (wood bleach) and distilled water should be applied and allowed to dry.

Neutralize it with twenty mule team borax and distilled water.

If your tap water is very low in iron, you can use that.

It's counterintuitive, but when cleaning vertical surfaces, start at the bottom to avoid permanent streaking.

13
znn94x•

Of course your first priority is to fix the leaks...

11
lightningfaceOP•

Sorry, I could have been more clear- this was summer and the windows were open during a rainstorm, we knew water would come in if there was wind, we just didn’t know which windows yet. Now we know which to keep closed when it’s raining in the summer and which we can probably leave open.

31
bkconn•

Well wind can blow from many different directions..

1
lightningfaceOP•

You’re not wrong, I’ve found that during rains though there tend to be windows you learn you can keep open and windows you never can.

5
Lkn4it•

Many people use shoe polish as a stain. Could this be what is on the window sill?

8
lightningfaceOP•

Very interesting to know this, but I do think they probably used something stain adjacent that they thought was the right thing to use

4
whatsasimba•

I don't have any advice, I just wanted to give you my condolences, as the owner of a 130 year old house where everything is basically held together with masking tape and paint. SOOOOOO many "creative solutions"!

5
lightningfaceOP•

Yuuup! They put trim all over the place but it doesn’t match the colors of the existing original wood, and they didn’t do the corners right... there will be a lot of “ignore it until you can fix it” going on (for the cosmetic things at least)

5
THE_Goochalini•

Bought a house after the 90 ur old owner died. He had loved there for his whole life. House was his parent first.

Cigarette/smoke stain everywhere. After a good cleaning kitchen cabinets, walls and window trims were all a different color

4
amethystmmm•

My mom used to run a motel that allowed smoking in rooms, and yeah, the walls were all painted this like eggshell color because that's what the owner liked. (walls, ceiling, everything) and yeah, some of the rooms ended up brown from the level of chain smoking these people did. it was SOOO gross.

3
lightningfaceOP•

Thankfully we can be fairly certain that’s not the case for us!

1
CopperUnit•

Just throwing it out there - were the former owners smokers?

4
baconandpreggs•

I just wanted to say I totally feel you on the “creative” home improvement front. Our house was converted from a barn sometime in the 1890s and the people we bought it from moved in in the 50s.

There is very little that was done to code let alone by a professional >.<

3
mararch•

Would you consider washing off all the old stuff, sanding, and refinishing appropriately? It's a fair amount of work but it's the only way to make it really last.

2
C21H30O218•

Boot polish, cheeky old trick.

2
frlejo•

I would figure out why the window leaks and fix it first

2
lusciouslou91•

Unfortunately the best bet is to remove whatever is there and start again. If there's that much water damage, that coating that's in there is useless. You're going to have the same problem again unless you strip it and start over.

2
homestead1111•

maybe some water based stain that didn't cure or a dye that they didn't seal with a top coat. If it were me I would take a wet rag with some TSP and go wipe off as much as I can. Then maybe get some acrylic transparent sealer to seal in whais left. I would be trying to figure out what that was. I would pic an area and dry different removal tricks, and try maybe some sealer acrylic or tung oil maybe let it cure see if it sticks well. I prefer working with tung oil myself. I wouldn't' sand that stuff off unless the house was vacant and had property venation going and safety gear. Let sleeping dogs lie. Yo might just need a thin coat of poly to seal it all in and leave the dye if it looks nice. maybe start with the bottom sills where the water actually touches if yo udon't have time to do it all now.

2
lightningfaceOP•

Thank you!

1
Fuzzynumbskull•

Buy a router table and just rip everything out for a very large carcinogenic fire in the back.

I'm kidding. TSP and a mask. It sounds like it's probably residue rather than a legit varnish, lacquer, shellac or stain. Try a rag and mineral spirits first. You will want to clean the surfaces so you can see what's going on.

I expect a lot of your window casements are probably rotted out too. Mine are on their way there.

If you are interested in learning more about older window design, there's a really good tutorial on refinishing at the Craftsman blog. https://thecraftsmanblog.com/. The materials he sells are very expensive... You can get them for cheaper if you look around.

Enjoy your new old house!

2
Meursaulty•

You need lacquer over the stain

0
ohiamaude•

Clear coat. Doesn't have to be lacquer.

0
Meursaulty•

Semantics.

1
porcelainvacation•

If it's not shellac it's probably nicotine.

0