Is it transphobic

Personally, i think gendered bathrooms are stupid. My college had gender neutral bathrooms (no, not single use ones, jm talking about multiple stalls here) and everything was fine. The idea that mixed use bathrooms will lead to sexual harassment is bullshit. Its just fear mongering to try to justify inconveniences for minority groups.

The problem with that line of reasoning is, would you prevent a cis woman from going in the bathroom if they were not pretty enough, if they looked too much like a man ?

Cis people would be able to not try to conform to their gender's stereotypes, but trans people would not. That supposition is problematic at best, transphobic at worst.

While I'll agree you will probably need to suck it up until you pass 'enough', this should not be the case, you should be able to be yourself before medically transitionning without fear of being harrassed. Also you say it makes cis people uncomfortable, that's a thing that can change, and should change in the long run

People say “well we can’t allow MEN in the WOMENS bathroom cause someone will get hurt” this is such bullshit. Trans women are far more likely to be assaulted if they are in a male bathroom. They just need to pee. They don’t want to get assaulted for it. They don’t want to “spy on the women in the women’s bathroom. they just want to pee

I don't care much if cis people are comfortable with it. That said, I personally waited (and avoided bathrooms or used single stall) until I wasn't visibly trans because I didn't want to have to deal with potential bullshit. But that's not an option for everyone. Not everyone passes after a few months, and people who don't pass still need to pee. So ultimately, cis people will have to suck it up and deal with the fact that trans people exist and have limited bladder capacity.

Just FYI, zealous bathroom policings based on how well you pass also affects cis people.

If one has not tried to conform to gender norms in anyway and that person appears as their agab is it transphobic to say they shouldn’t use the bathroom that corresponds to their gender.

You can't look at someone and figure out what they have 'tried'. You can only figure out the results and that is very much YMMV. Outside of terf fantasies and neckbeard thought-experiments, I haven't really seen anything to back up the notion that there is a mob of insincere trans or fake trans who want to use that as an excuse to enter the forbidden bathroom. It sets a bad precedent having to explain or demonstrate your 'dedication' to transitioning before you're allowed to pee.

I also think its very uncomfortable for cis people to see someone not at least trying to conform to the gender appearances in the bathroom.

Should a butch woman try to look more feminine for the comfort of others in the bathroom? Should a femboy try to 'man up' for the comfort of his fellow men?

If the answer to this is different for trans people and cis people, then yes that's a transphobic position.

Despite what terfs and certain trans youtubers would have you believe, most of us are pretty well aware of (or underestimate) how far we pass. We don't barge into the women's bathroom with a full beard demanding to be treated as women, more likely we'll hold it in coz we're not sure if the makeup conceals the shadow well enough.

There should be more gender neutral bathrooms; you don't need to worry about how you look to others, just go pee.

It isnt transphobic if the person doesnt pass yet and the person stopping them is a stranger, it becomes transphobia when they still wont let the person in after they explain their identity,I get that some people think identifying as female when ur amab is just a ploy for men to prey on women, but if nobody complains about them, let them go to their preferred restroom, it only becomes a problem If the person Is actually harassing people

(Sorry for the bad grammar, I'm tired)

Okay but who is the gatekeeper? Who's decision is it who gets allowed into a bathroom? What if I haven't shaved that day and am in just jeans and a hoodie? Does the bathroom I use depend on how much five o'clock shadow I have? What if I'm on HRT but the effects just aren't visible?

What if I'm just having a really shitty day and I don't feel like I pass?

My point being that there is no easy way to decide what constitutes someone passing. All people, trans, cis and otherwise, should just use the bathroom they comfortable with.

IMHO, it's not black and white.

Legislatively, any efforts to enforce bathroom rules are bound to run into heavy practical difficulties. Do you establish a 'bathroom police'? Do you require photo ID in public places? Establish increasingly detailed rules around people in the process of transition? What about the "some cis women look more manly than some cross dressers" paradox? You saw what happens when overzealous school principals try to enforce bathroom rules - it takes about 0.5 seconds before serious harassment takes place.

On the other hand, culturally speaking, I think simple tact (not fear of being attacked) compelled me to not use women's bathrooms before I started transition. Perhaps with the exception of restrooms in gay bars, but the culture is waaay different there...

When I started transition, and was sort of in the 'in between', emotionally and physically, I avoided public restrooms altogether. Now that my transition is complete, I use women's facilities without a second thought.

However, at work, where there are good deal of women who have known me for years as a guy, I choose to use the single-occupancy unisex bathroom. Management has indicated that I'm free to use the women's, but I feel my choice is sensible under the circumstances.

I’m going to not answer directly because i myself am not doing hrt nor presenting, i’m 25 and plan on waiting until 26 when i’m off my parents health insurance. So like while internally i identify as a trans women in public i wouldn’t do so, i wouldn’t correct people on pronouns, etc.

Clearly I don’t use the women’s restroom but i’ll literally wait in line in a men’s bathroom to use the stall just to pee. Urinals have and always will scare tf out of me

If one holds the position that unless your a trans person undergoing HRT, you shouldn’t be using the bathroom according to your gender identity. If one has not tried to conform to gender norms in anyway and that person appears as their agab is it transphobic to say they shouldn’t use the bathroom that corresponds to their gender.

Gender norms are a fuck anyway. Bathrooms aren't separated based on gender norms, they're separated based on gender. It's not about performance, it's about identity.

I personally think that unless your socially transitioning and starting to exhibit secondary sex characteristics of your gender identity you shouldn’t be putting yourself in danger of getting called out or attacked.

Which secondary sex characteristics are we talking about? Breasts? Facial hair? What about cis women who don't grow breasts, or have a mastectomy? What if a cis man gets facial electrolysis because he likes not having facial hair? In addition, social transition doesn't make you exhibit secondary sex characteristics, so there's not really a point in including it in this thought.

I also think its very uncomfortable for cis people to see someone not at least trying to conform to the gender appearances in the bathroom.

Studies have actually been done on this and have shown that the vast majority of cis people have no problem using the bathroom with a trans person in it. Here's one (from the UK of all places) that shows that 71% of cisgender women are "very" or "quite comfortable" with using the same restroom as a trans woman. You might have an opinion, but the verifiable, empirical data on this shows the opinion to not be backed by science.

Edit: pasting here as well because I think this comment from you is extremely important

I couldn’t use the ladies room until i had my facial hair removal completed, presenting as my gender and on hrt for 9+ months. I just couldn’t do it cause I didn’t want other women to feel infringed upon.

Just because you personally did not want to use women's restrooms before you were comfortable with how well you passed DOES NOT MEAN that other people should be bound to the same standards you held yourself to. That's an extremely harmful position. I can tell from your comments that you tend to see non-passing trans women as men.

Also I find it funny that you've said

I want to hear genuine takes on the topic cause I don’t think amab pre hrt and not presenting should be using the women’s restroom.

Yet when I asked clarifying questions to better nail down exactly what you meant while also giving my opinion, you said I was just here to start shit. Doesn't really sound like you want opinions, you want agreement.

I totally believe that trans people should use the bathroom of whomever they're presenting as. I still present as male in public and I wouldn't dream of entering the women's bathroom at this point. Really, at the end of the day, it's just a bathroom. I can use a stall in the men's bathroom and it doesn't bother me any. If I had an issue with that, I could use a family bathroom. I think a lot of us have bigger concerns than where to do our business whilst in public tbh

I personally only use the women's restroom when presenting femme for my safety. I don't use the restroom out in town often anymore. COVID makes it hard to go anywhere presenting femme given my situation.

Since people are not mind reader and with no knowledge of trans people.

Lets assume you see a dude walking in the women s bathroom. First you tell him "wrong bathroom" then if he doesnt want to go now its where things get problematic (happens rarely irl)

Full boymode no hrt and so on, no women's bathroom (for security and logic reasons).

If you are in fem mod and do efforts yes most likely you good.

Point is dont go full bear mode in women s bathroom please, it scares everyone for real

Yeah I agree with you. I don't think it's transphobic to say that although I'd stress that I wouldn't want anything like that becoming law because of how subjective passing tends to be and how a law like that would likely be misused. It's something I'd hold as a social expectation but definitely not a legal one. From my experience trans people tend to self police this sort of thing and won't start using spaces of their true gender before they've started transitioning anyway.