Source
r/StarWarsSquadrons•
Andur

Advice on single joystick + VR setup?

Question

I'm trying to get into Squadrons, but I want to do it using my Oculus Quest+Link . I own a single T.16000M joystick, and obviously I can't keep my left hand on the throttle and still use the keyboard for all the necessary secondary functions. I'm looking into Voice Attack but I haven't found a comfortable setup yet.

Could anyone point me to a a good, battle-tested setup? The 12 extra buttons on the T.16000M weren't really designed for "blind use".

EDIT: to clarify, I'm not asking about hardware setups, I want to know if some of you guys made my current one work with clever keybindings and software like Voice Attack.

Posted Jan 24, 2021, 12:47 PM UTC · edited

743
Flash_ketchup•

I use two t16000m sticks for HOSAS and I love it. More than enough buttons, never have to take my hand off the stick, etc. Also, you could use joystick gremlin to add a modifier and another layer of button mapping to your stick, essentially doubling the available inputs.

2
AndurOP•

Eventually I might buy a second T16, I do love the feel and they're not too expensive. Watching people dogfight or race at low altitude with dual joysticks in Star Citizen is awesome.

Using modifiers to make do with a single joystick is a given (including Voice Attack), but the setup isn't straightforward and needs some game knowledge (that currently I don't have) to choose what's more comfortable etc. , that's why I decided to ask you guys :-)

2
Dukenukem117•

Stick + KB should be competitive.

Otherwise TWCS is popular as a stand-alone throttle. I personally don't like how big it is but I have small hands, so I use a T-Flight throttle cause I was able to pick up a cheap T-Flight X on facebook marketplace for $30.

You can also try dual-stick like Avenger 1.

1
AndurOP•

I can't see my KB while wearing a headset, and I'm not too excited about buying new hardware right now. Thanks for the suggestions, though!

1
Dukenukem117•

You should be able to use 6 of the buttons on one side just fine without looking at it. The T-Flight throttle only has 6 buttons as well. This is what you need to map:

- Power management (3 buttons)

- Boost

- Countermeasures

- Balance shields/Balance shunt

Map your stick the following way:

- Trigger + Left/Right = fire controls

- Bottom button for target ahead

- Hat switch up/down for angle shields and shunting, left/right for combo target nearest/my attacker and combo ping.

If you want, you can map the buttons on the right side to target AI / friendlies / subsystems, as well as menu/tac map.

4
AndurOP•

I tried to use those buttons, but they form a smooth surface and I can barely tell whether I'm pushing button 7 or 8 without looking. Specially not during winter when my fingers are so cold ;-)

The ones on the right would place my hand way off the throttle, and even with incredible muscle memory, I doubt I could put my fingers back in the original buttons, specially not in the middle of a fight.

I think the only solution is to use Voice Attack for the less time-critical functions (targeting, menu, power). I started looking into it when I noticed how awkward pressing Boost was with default controls.

I figured someone over here might have made this setup work already, but apparently most people are playing with a HOTAS and not a single stick like me. Oh well, back to astromech duty!

1
Dukenukem117•

You only have 3 buttons to put your fingers on, with a second row that is tactilely different with dips on them. I think you can learn which does what with some practice. I think TM did everything they can to make it so you never have to look down.

The buttons for the right do not need to be pressed in the heat of combat. You can take your stick hand off for them.

1
vi3tmix•

Seriously considering dual stick, but what are the most popular ones?

1
Dukenukem117•

There is actually a dual stick T16000M setup, but I dont know if TM sells the left stick by itself.

1
AndurOP•

I don't think you have to, I never tried but the grip itself looks like it can be removed to make it left-handed.

1
vi3tmix•

Definitely would wind up buying them together. I think Dell was even selling the combo for a very attractive price ($120 iirc) but was curious if there were more highly touted options

1
Dukenukem117•

I think for the price, it is by far the best dual stick solution. Only other ones that come to mind are going to cost $300+ like VKB.

1
Dr_Nik•

Don't know why everyone insists on a $200+ setup for this game. I do great with this $40 stick: https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/products/space/extreme-3d-pro-joystick.html

It has enough buttons for everything you need. My only complaint is that one of my buttons died so I got rid of "make shields even"...still enough to have fun. My rank is only limited by my skill, not my equipment.

1
kalnaren•

That stick is worse than the one OP is currently using...

1
Dr_Nik•

OP is complaining about not being able to use th buttons blind. I've been playing with this one in VR since almost day 1. "Worse" is relative.

1
N0V0w3ls•

The other one has enough buttons as well.

1
AndurOP•

See, the problem isn't the lack of buttons. Looking at your Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, it looks like it has LESS buttons than mine (the T16 has 12 on its base), BUT... they aren't all bundled up in the same panel, creating a smooth surface. You can "feel" whether you're pressing 6 or 7. From the looks of it, they have a bit of height, too.

I don't think it was designed to be used blind, at all. However, I'm in love with the HallEffect sensors. It's like, my 4th joystick and I don't want to go back to more primitive tech ;-)

It's useful to read about your experience, but I'm not looking to purchase more gaming hardware right now. I was merely asking about keybindings and software setups, maybe I should edit the OP to clarify that.

1
cvilleraven•

Yes, you can play on the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. If you have one and can't find something better at reasonable price, it's certainly an attractive option. At current prices, no one should even consider buying one (note to scalpers - a $30 stick is not worth $70 just because you want it to be.)

This is akin to saying you can run a quarter mile in a minivan. Sure, technically you can drive a quarter mile off the line at full throttle in it, but it's not exactly fun, and you're definitely using lesser equipment than the market has made available.

1
Dr_Nik•

Hah, spoken like someone who hasn't drag raced minivans ;)

2
cvilleraven•

See, now you're making me think you've retrofitted one with an engine with 3x the displacement than was there originally.

If you had a Logitech 3D Pro that you replaced the potentiometers with Hall effect sensors, sure, it's going to make an improvement. It's also no longer really a 3D Pro, so...

2
Dr_Nik•

Nah, i actually have only driven a minivan once and hated it, but the point still stands. Just because better options exist, the price upgrade is not necessarily worth it. Even at $70, jumping to the next stick gets you to $200, requires a seperate throttle and doesn't give you much more functionality (this is ignoring the cost of the seat mount needed for something beyond a just a stick).

Personally I'd rather spend that money on a 2+ extra copies of the game and play it with some friends (or maybe a nice control pad).

I don't have issues with resolution, response time, or button count (actually I'd love 2 more buttons, but I'm surviving well). I play significantly better than my brother who has a flight chair, some stupid expensive HOTAS with peddles, and a 4k VR headset.

Really the ability to head track with VR is a much better upgrade. It actually doesn't help with ties, but being able to keep an eye on your target in an A-wing is just wonderful.

2
Krzywousty•

If you happen to have racing pedals, you can use the gas pedal as your throttle. I'd you have a gamepad, you can probably use that as well with one hand if it's more comfortable than the keyboard.

1
AndurOP•

I don't have them. I do have a gamepad, but if my left hand is using that, it can't control the throttle slider on my joystick.

1
Krzywousty•

I was thinking you could use the left trigger as a the throttle. :) That way you have a as many buttons ad you can but your fingers on... Or until you get something better. A gas pedal would be great though...

1
Shakespoone•

No voice attack, but, I use a single sidewinder2 with a paddle throttle. It only has 8 buttons total, so I keep the key binds for comms, pings, and ping acknowledging on the numpad. When I set my stick next on my desk the numpad is right within finger tip range. I only use the 0, Enter, and "+" keys. Redeploy is still "B" which is easy to find with the spacebar as reference, and the same goes for re-center calibration with backspace.

1
AndurOP•

And you manage to do all that blind while wearing a headset? I'm losing confidence in myself by the minute :-)

1
Shakespoone•

Yeah, I'm on rift s. Didn't feel like buying a new stick, so I made due. I def end up panic slapping keys sometimes, but all the flight/combat controls are on the stick/ throttle base. The combo keybinds help too.

1
BiffTannen_24•

Your left hand on the throttle is a huge impediment, and even more so because you can't quickly use the 12 extra buttons. Losing one whole hand of control isn't going to work.

If not buying additional equipment, I think you should abandon that, and move your left hand to the WASD position on the keyboard. Depending on how comfortable you are with that, you get at least eight keys but prob more. Fine throttle control isn't that important, so binding it to two keys and adjusting the increments to about 25% should work just fine.

1
AndurOP•

I'm considering just that, the stick throttle isn't too inmersive anyway ;-) Right now I'm fiddling with Voice Attack with good results so far, and as a bonus, I can play custom sounds or text to speech "acknowledge" commands (for stuff like reconfigure shields, acknowledge ping etc).

Thanks for the advice!

1
MrWh1te365:Empire: Test Pilot•

You should be able to multiply your buttons significantly using voice attack button remapping.

For every physical button you can set up to 3 different mappings before even having to write conditional statements.

Using the basic trigger events you can configure a button so one mapping executes on short press, one on long press and one on double press. For example, for non-shielded ships a short up click of the hat switch increases engine power, but holding it for 700ms shunts the power to lasers. Double clicking it changes targeting to cap ship systems.

The key is to not put something too critical or disruptive on the short press event and to group the mappings intuitively... Eg the 3 functions above are for pushing "forward", so I press up on the hat switch.

On a related topic, I noticed that one very prominent and very highly rated competitive player on twitch uses multi-button macros yesterday.

Across two of his videos I've seen him run a "missile scan" macro that presses the "target missiles" button followed by quickly target cycling through all missiles in flight. Tsk tsk.

In one video he accidentally triggered the macro while in menus and his game menu went nuts.

1
AndurOP•

Interesting, thanks! I'm not aiming for competitive play, so I would probably use voice recognition and say "target systems" or "missile scan" for that. I'm not trying to fool anyone on Twitch 😁

I do use the built-in combo bindings, though.

Could you share the link to his channel, or you'd rather not tell?

1
MrWh1te365:Empire: Test Pilot•

That raises an interesting question about how much are macros accepted in this community, especially in competitive play when there's cash (albeit not much cash) prizes.

They seem pretty standard in Elite Dangerous.

I'd rather not tell, he's making money off his channel.

1
AndurOP•

Makes sense. Personally, I wouldn't mind unless the macro read information from your screen (autohotkey can do that at least) or controlled steering (say, "evasive pattern delta"). Not like it could be enforced in any way besides blacklisting the software itself.

Sharing the macros themselves would even the playing field ofc.

1
MrWh1te365:Empire: Test Pilot•

Ha, like the old battlefront 1 evasive move button.

1
SFM_Hobb3s•

Using RiftS with T16000 and TWCS.

While T16000 is not a bad joystick, VR presents a considerable issue. I can never reliably use any of the bottom buttons when my headset is on. Good luck trying to do so in a game. For me, the throttle was crucial.

I'm actually buying a better joystick because I want something better than t16000m. Got a new VKB joystick on the way.

1
AndurOP•

I'm managing (just playing the campaign, no multiplayer yet) using Voice Attack, which is something I would use anyway, good buttons or not. Voice recognition might be 1995 tech, but still it feels so futuristic to give verbal commands to your ship computer, then hearing whatever confirmation sounds you setup. I guess you could set up astromech beeps ;-)

The only button I do use on the base is number 7 (left hand index finger) for "combo target" while my left hand thumb controls the throttle. I tried using keyboard keys for throttle control but somehow it feels too arcadey to me, I might have to do just that for multiplayer, I dunno.

The fact that the T16 has a "version 2" featuring Braille-coded buttons means they received feedback on that usability issue, and we're not alone! Eventually I'm sure I'll buy a second joystick and pedals and I can totally forget about those buttons.

Do the VKB joysticks use magnetic sensors as well? I don't think I could go back to regular potentiometers.

1