Source
r/changemyview•
MSV34

CMV: Food Delivery Apps Should Change their Tipping Model

Delta(s) from OP

On all the food delivery apps I use, they recommend tipping the driver on a percentage of the total bill. Why is that?

I'm arguing that delivery drivers should be tipped on an algorithm based on distance they have to travel to deliver to the household, and not based on how much a person has paid for the food.

It's not like a driver has to do more work based on the price of the food. The cost associated with their job - gas, time, depreciation of their vehicle - is all tied to distance not price. Also, especially with higher end restaurants, a higher overall price doesn't assume more/larger boxes, it simply means the food is more expensive. I would definitely understand tipping more if the driver has to carry more packages but that's not always true.

Is my logic sound or do I need to change my view?

Posted Feb 15, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

35990
ZoltanBattery2ƥ

The tipping system in these apps is all about incentivizing you to tip, so as to incentivize more drivers to join and get the existing drivers to do more deliveries. They have no incentive to make algorithms to "tip fairly", but you are well within your rights to do such a calculation yourself.

109
MSV34OP1ƥ

This makes a lot of sense. !delta

If I know a lot of people who regularly make 30% tips on grubhub, I'll join. If I know tons of people who make only 7%, I probably won't join. I didnt think of that before

32
DeltaBotMOD∞∆•

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to u/ZoltanBattery (1∆).

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1
olatundew•

The tipping model should be changed, but I'd go further. You should receive your food first, then get a "how was your delivery" prompt which includes info on how far and how quickly your driver brought your food, then an option to tip.

54
MSV34OP1ƥ

Yes, this I could see as a possibility. With servers, you pay them afterwards, so if they rock, I pay more. If they suck, I pay less.

With drivers, if theyre fast, I'd pay more but can't since I prepaid. If they suck, and don't follow specified orders (like bring to side door etc), I can't pay less for bad service.

This won't happen, but it would be nice.

14
honorfaz•

Like someone else said, this can't happen ever. I choose which delivery to take based on how much I'll get paid. If I'm only guaranteed the $3 base pay, I won't doordash anymore.

13
olatundew•

Fair enough, but that doesn't mean it can't happen - just that you don't want it to.

4
honorfaz•

I mean, it's possible. But if it does, doordash will fail instantly because it's a huge negative impact to the drivers.

Big difference between getting a $12 delivery for a 10 minute drive, vs $3 for the chance that I will get paid a few extra bucks in tip

2
holdenmcneilgames•

Wait, dumb question, so you can see the amount tipped ahead of time?

3
honorfaz•

You see the total amount you'll get for the delivery. Base pay is $3, and sometimes doordash has promos for like an extra $1 or $2 per delivery. So you take the total - base pay - any promos added on, and you can estimate the tip.

2
Shellbyvillian•

Instacart and Uber Eats already have options to change the tip after delivery.

1
Swellmeister•

A lot of the grocery delivery do have the ability to change their tip after. I started reporting a guy because he would always buy during busy hours, promise like 100% tip so we'd all try and pick it up potentially skipping over someone else and then he'd drop the tip to like 3%.

1
Bangarang_1•

In Texas, we have Favor and you don't get prompted to pay until the driver has your food but you don't have to finalize your payment (technically) until you want to place another order. I always wait til my food is delivered and base my tip on speed of service and how well it matches my order (not like "I asked for no tomatoes" but more like "I ordered chicken and got beef").

-1
Striking_Ant2001•

I always pay 20% on service no matter what in restaurant. I don’t care to take the time to evaluate what is good from last service to this one. I get my food I ordered, I’m satisfied. It usually equals out with service. If you are the one where a dollar or two matters, ok. A delivery driver with gig apps is paid no minimum wage an hour, delivers food that is usually sealed, could possibly have to wait an inordinate amount of time for your food at the restaurant, then have to drive in their vehicle through sometimes, ridiculous traffic to your house and drop at your doorstep. Does that deserve 20%, I don’t know. Would YOU do it for less than 20%?

-1
Echo127•

Agreed 100%. Ordered some Chipotle over the weekend and it arrived 50 minutes after the driver picked it up because he decided to try to chain some deliveries together. Was literally watching the GPS thing on door dash that showed him at my Chipotle, then he drove 10 minutes AWAY from me to a taco bell, than another 10 minutes FURTHER AWAY to a hotel, then finally drove the 20 minutes back to my place with my cold burrito.

2
olatundew•

It discourages tipping, because you don't want to feel like a mug for tipping service which turned out to be terrible.

2
MOTPeng44•

Always report these drivers. On most apps they can get deactivated for doing that.

1
deliverykp•

I believe Postmates has something like that, but from what I understand it's pretty wonky and hard for customers to figure out how to tip..

2
Vobat3ƥ

I am guessing this is a US issue. In the UK we can tip at start or after the delivery and we don't have to tip.

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
elidorian•

This is why I only use Postmates for food delivery.

1
TheOtherAngle2•

That may not be effective because people have no reason to check the app after they’ve received their food. They’ll be too busy eating and fewer people will leave tips. An option to adjust your tip after delivery may help.

1
Blade-Controvesial•

The problem then is that drivers don’t see how much they’re going to make before they accept the order, which is obviously a big factor in wether or not they do accept the order. I do doordash deliveries when work at my main job slows down, and if I were to see a Dash pop up with a (no tip included) low-mid payoff on it, I probably wouldn’t accept it, even though there’s a possibility that the orderer may tip well in the end. The orderer could just as easily be a dick and not too at all, even if I deliver quickly. It’s too risky

1
BeigeAlmighty1ƥ

Not going to happen. Drivers choose orders based on the amount of the tip.

0†
Splooshkat•

This is not the fault of food delivery apps. This is just the tipping model in general, which is poorly designed and not used in many countries.

The idea that you should tip based on the value of the food doesn’t make sense in general. I can order an Applebee’s two for twenty and then ask for five refills and ranch, then a BBQ, then a ketchup, then another ranch and make a server work twice as hard as a fancy restaurant with a $60 steak. Why should a server working harder get less money because the food they’re serving is reasonably priced?

Workers should just be paid a wage like anyone else and tipping should be done away with entirely.

14
Red-belliedOrator•

Exactly. There are some situations in which I'm happy to tip, but obligatory tipping for food is absurd. And it's just gotten more out of control. It used to be that you weren't expected to tip unless you sat down in a restaurant and someone waited on you. But now, if you walk up to a counter and order a burger, you're expected to tip. It's crazy, because if I go to the drive-through at McDonald's, no one's going to expect a tip there, but those guys are working just as hard, and not making any more money than anyone else who is tipped.

It's a ridiculously unfair system that rewards some workers and shafts others, and it puts a burden on the consumer to be the determiner of how much to supplement someone's wages, wages that wouldn't need supplementing if the employer paid them a fair one.

2
Splooshkat•

It does drive me nuts with the whole tip line on takeout receipts too.

Who is that even going to? The person working the register that happened to hand you the receipt? The cook? The janitor? All of them evenly?

Or more likely is it just going to the owners bottom line?

2
ArCSelkie37•

Or leave tipping in but still pay servers properly, so that we can tip if they do a good job rather than tip just because it’s the now the customers job to pay the servers wages.

0
Splooshkat•

The systems that many places have adopted is more along the lines of just pay your servers and expect them to do a good job because that’s their job.

2
ArCSelkie37•

Aye, that’s what i mean. Do a good job because it’s your job. But i see no reason to stop someone from tipping if they wish to. I have a problem with the US because tipping is basically mandatory and they use it as an excuse not to pay their staff and will do everything in their power to shame customers.

3
woodenonesie•

As a delivery driver, if the app says $2.75 delivery fee (includes expected tip) i will not choose to deliver that order. I hardly ever select a delivery run for anything under $10. Uooober takes there cut and I'm left with the rest. So $2.75? I'll take maybe a dollar from that. Not worth it in my opinion. Tip well, because the app does not pay us well for delivery. Half my income is tips.

8
MSV34OP1ƥ

So all the apps I use exclude tip from delivery fee. Ie, restaurant a charges $3 for delivery fee BUT I'm expected to tip on top of that.

Second, this is change my view, so as a driver, why do you think I should tip based on food price and not distance you have to travel?

Your argument so far is that people should tip more because corps are greedy. Understood, but also not our problem.

8
woodenonesie•

Honestly, at this point, the quicker and easier the run is, the money isn't as big of an issue. People don't seem to understand that I CANNOT see their house numbers because most of the time they are in obscure places, not on the house at all, or the house is completely dark when I walk up to the front porch.

So honestly. Tip what feels right to you. I personally tip $10 on $30 worth of food. $15 for 50, $20 for 60 and so on.

I worked in a restaurant for 2 years and can tell people have no idea what to tip.

I had an order for 2 desert crepes (saw receipt for $5 for both crepes) and I was getting payed a delivery fee of $21 (says it included tip) but the trip was 35 minutes from the restaurant to the condo I was delivering to.

So at this point, I can't figure out how much uber takes, how much is tip, and how much is delivery fee.

I just make $100/day cash out and go home.

0†
whales171•

So you leave it on the customer to solve systemic issues with the app?

I tip well whenever I use uber eats app, but I hate the system. I stopped ordering out as much because I hate how many random fees get thrown at us. I wish uber would just say the delivery fee is 15 dollars so I know much it costs at the start.

0
woodenonesie•

Well I cant solve the systematic issues on my own.

I agree. The app needs a rework. Sometimes, like today, someone will cancel an order but it won't show up in the app. I only find put when I get to the restaurant and they say the order was canceled. I only get payed for finishing a delivery.

Also, the map interface is not very intelligent. It will navigate me off one street only to get back on the same street one block down the road. Also it will bring me to the leasing office of apartments, but not tell me where to go within the complex. So when u see your uber car on the app basically going in circles, or going in the wrong direction, its cause were deciphering the apartment complex map.

3
[deleted]•

The theory in tipping has always been that if you have more to spend, you have more to tip.

But one problem with your idea is that the customer doesn't always know how far away the driver is. The driver has to go from where they are to the restaurant and then to the house, but the distance to the restaurant in the first place can be significant, and can be a deal-breaker for me as a driver. But since the app doesn't assign a driver until the order is already in, there would be no way to account for this.

Besides which, there are some restaurants I prefer to deliver from because they're more expensive and I expect better tips from them. Under your model, I would lose the benefit of knowing there's a sort of ranking of restaurants I can go to, and others I can pretty much reject out of hand. That's a little more mental math on my end.

All of which besides, people already don't tip on these apps all that often, and when they do it's almost never 15%. I would say most offers I get are for under 10%. Changing the tipping model from what people are used to is going to confuse them and ultimately make tipping worse. People can already see how far the restaurant is from their house and choose to tip based on that, but they don't.

The way doordash does it is that if an order is more than x distance away, they add to the base pay based on distance. But then you also get your tip. Kind of, it's a weird system, but someone is getting those orders.

There are enough delivery apps now that someone can try to make one that tips based on distance, but my guess is that drivers won't like it and ultimately it won't work too well.

7
MSV34OP1ƥ

You make a lot of fair points, but I respectfully disagree with them.

The theory in tipping has always been that if you have more to spend, you have more to tip.

Yes, but the theory is also you get paid more or less based on the service you provide. You suck as a server, expect less. You rock as a server, expect more.

The driver has to go from where they are to the restaurant and then to the house, but the distance to the restaurant in the first place can be significant, and can be a deal-breaker for me as a driver.

Again, fair point, but why is that the orderers problem? I order from a restaurant two miles away, for example. You as a driver are ten miles away. In my opinion, I won't take that order. I'm too far away for it to make sense.

Besides which, there are some restaurants I prefer to deliver from because they're more expensive and I expect better tips from them.

Fair, too, but what are you doing to deserve more? If a bill is $10 or $100 you're providing the same service. What is your argument that you deserve more money? Likewise, say the driver doesn't adhere to my instructions like leave on side porch. Do you owe me money back now? At least with servers, I pay them AFTER my meal. With drivers I am paying them upfront, and if they make mistakes, I'm out.

I respect what yall do, and appreciate it, but would like to really know what you do differently with more expensive meals to justify a bigger tip. Doyou keep it warm, handle differently etc?

6
[deleted]•

One reason I don't deliver from Taco Bell is because Taco Bell orders almost never tip well - even as a percentage of the order. On the other hand, I'll pick up a Red Lobster order even if it's not ideal because they usually tip pretty well.

That would be true even if tips were based on miles rather than total cost. It's not about what I do differently in taking a Red Lobster order, it's about responding to the broader economic forces that impact tipping.

The other problem is that five miles on the highway is very different from five city miles, or five miles where two of them are through a trailer park with speed bumps every hundred yards. If you want to optimize this system, you'd have to take this into account. But then, as a corporation, you'd be making food more expensive for people who generally live in less expensive homes.

3†
Splooshkat•

I don’t think you’d need to figure in how far the driver is to start. That’s really the drivers choice to take the delivery or not.

You can claim (and may be right) that the delivery apps don’t really give them that much choice, but I assume they could still choose to not do so.

That’s kind of along the lines of the idea that a company should pay extra for people with long commutes, despite that being the choice of the employee, not of the company.

2
HugsNotRugs•

I don’t like tipping upfront and I am a very good tipper. The tip should be based on the quality of service. I’ve paid 25% tip up front and not received my food and instead get a refund and a “sorry we wasted 2 hrs of your time” email.

7
[deleted]•

I like tipping handsomely on a decent sized order only to have the driver pick up and keep the order.

1
MSV34OP1ƥ

Sorry but thats bull.

"I pay extra for them to do their job." No, we tip industry standard for them to pick up and keep the order, we tip "handsomely" for exceptional service, whatever that means on a delivery order.

0
BenSchuster1•

As a food delivery rider, the only thing which seems to correlate with greater tips is when it's raining. I guess most people feel sorry for me cycling about in the rain lol, it's not too bad tho.

2
Benjammintheman•

What did you tip 25% of? $4? Being a delivery driver has quite a few costs associated with it, so if a tip is substantial you can be damn sure I'm taking the order and completing it. You have no idea how many times I've seen the same order that is 15 minutes away and pays $4 pop up in my feed, only to be rejected again.

0
HugsNotRugs•

No not $4 and I’m well aware of how the cost of doing business as a driver and the overhead work but I will break it down simple for you. I live 7-8 miles away from a group of restaurants who already charge a delivery fee that is calculated by mile. So my tip is after the overhead is applied to cover the drivers costs. I’m sorry you get hosed by cheap assholes but that’s not me. I understand the convenience and pay well to have it. The problem is they hire incompetent people that can’t use a gps (google maps, Apple Maps, Garmin) take you exactly to my address that’s in a subdivision that has these cool numbers on the mailbox and the house itself that let you know you are at the right location. Simple job, simple pay, I just don’t want to “tip” someone well ahead before they have even done the job.

1
[deleted]•

Also annoying how you tip before your food arrives. I find it very annoying to be prompted to tip anywhere before i get the food/service Completely eliminates the point of tipping.

Wok box for example I make my order and pay for it and tip and then they start making it, I take out. Go back to my hotel room to find no cutlery, no sauces no fortune cookie, and the stir fry is made like shit all noodles hardly any veg or meat. Like wtf did I just tip for, the original price was already more than I should have paid.

5
[deleted]•

[deleted]

4
CrashBandicoot2•

Tipping should be eliminated completely. This applies to everything really, not just food delivery apps. The companies should be paying the employees/contractors/workers the money that they deserve. How convenient for these companies that they can rely on the social pressure of tipping to avoid properly compensating the people that work for them. Tell me what their service and worth and I'll pay it. Don't give me a bill and then ask me for more money. I don't care if I get good service or bad service, I should be charged the same. If I get bad service, skimping you on a tip doesn't justify my bad experience and won't bring me back to your company. If their service is worth 20% more, charge me 20% more. I just want a service, I don't want to give you a performance review.

3
Schlimmb0•

But the IRL tipping is still a percentage. For that matter: The drivers should be paid enough to survive and tipped as a waiter/waitress.

2
flyingace71•

Instead of tipping the driver you should tip the restaurant staff who actually prepared your food

2
Rhaggy•

(I’m talking restaurants, not fast food) The restaurant staff aren’t putting miles on their car, or sometimes going to sketchy dark neighborhoods with no porch lights or addresses. Cooks (that I know) make an hourly wage and no tips. If anybody at the restaurant should be getting anything it’s the bartender/takeout hostess that spends 10 seconds on us and moves on, but how would you put worth on that? I should be holding a tip jar when I hold doors open if that’s the case.

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
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1
Available-Ad6250•

The driver is also held responsible in many cases for the accuracy of the order. Larger orders, complicated orders and people with more expensive orders are necessarily more difficult and important to manage properly. The onus is on the driver according to the price to perform better.

1
Mastic8ionst8ion•

Its not so much of a tip as it is a bid. These delivery drivers are private contractors and the app is merely an intermediary. They get orders, and chose which order is worth their time. The more you tip the quicker someone is going to accept your order, especially if its peak time and there are more orders than drivers.

1
Jay_Reezy•

I delivered pizza for many years, and In my experience it is incredibly rare for people to tip based off of a percentage. 80% of my tips were in the $2-$5 range regardless of the bill. I don't know how that translates to the current food delivery app business, but I would have definitely been better off if people tipped a % of the bill.

But I agree that they should change their tipping model. The model should be that the company pays the driver what is "fair" for their time and mileage on their vehicle (including dead miles driving to stores/restaurants to pick up), that cost would be ultimately passed on to the consumer, then whatever amount you tip is truly an additional tip. That won't happen because its better for drivers and worse for the company, but it has the benefit of being fair.

1
Intagvalley•

Tipping should be abandoned. It makes no sense. Why do we pay this extra guilt tax to a few of the hundreds of service workers. I don't go to restaurants because I don't want to be guilted into paying an extra fee just because the restaurant owners don't want to pay a living wage to their employees.

1
alliekat237•

I don’t disagree with you, but usually if you have a larger bill, there were more groceries they had to put together. If you’re talking about restaurants, I totally agree. But tipping has never really been about the amount of work people do. I always found it funny that at really nice restaurants, the tips were expected to be higher for the servers, but those servers in the nice restaurants have busboys and bartenders and essentially help to do the hard parts of serving like cleaning tables. When I waited tables I had to do all of that myself, but because the restaurant I worked at was cheap, my tips were relatively low.

1
OrangutanOntology•

I have been told for a while that when I tip a server that some of that money goes to support staff. Is this true when I get delivery? If not why not allow me to break my tip across driver and staff? Hell, maybe i should be able to do this at sit down dining.

1
MOTPeng44•

As a doordash driver my main problem with this is that there are many more factors that goes into how long an order will take me than just the distance between the restaurant and the customer.

The thing that often slows me down the most is how long of a line there is or how slow the restaurant is at prepping food. The timing can vary greatly. The same restaurant can have either no wait time at all, or it could have a 20+ minute wait. If it weren't for slow restaurants as a matter of fact I would have a near 100% on time percentage in doordash. Of course the distance between the restaurant and the customer is important but most of the time the thing that hurts my hourly rate the most is slow restaurants.

It also depends on the location of the customer because you aren't offered any orders if you aren't fairly close to a restaurant. Where I work there are areas with a ton of houses yet no restaurants anywhere nearby. This means I have to spend more time and wear and tear on my vehicle just to get back to an area with restaurants where I will actually be offered orders. I could have a customer that is 8 miles away but if they live in one direction I know I'll have to drive miles afterwards before I'll be offered another order, while 8 miles in another direction could have the house right next to a shopping center with a ton of restaurants.

So at the end of the day the distance between the restaurant and the customer is just a single factor in the amount of time an order takes the the amount of wear and tear it could put on the driver's vehicle. Even if you only live 1 mile away from the restaurant what is the point in basing your tip off of that if I might have to spend 10-15+ minutes waiting inside of the restaurant for your food to be ready anyways, or if you live 10 miles away if I know I'll have to drive another 4 just to get to a more populated area?

1