We see the other side of this presumptuous nonsense.
ETA: just want to be clear I am posting for the entitlement of the OP’s daughter, not because I think grandparents shouldnt provide childcare
Posted Feb 21, 2021, 12:51 PM UTC · edited
If we had a non-shitpost JustNoDIL subreddit it would and should be full of stories like this one. People who think their parents have the responsibility to provide free, on-demand childcare are the worst.
I went to JustNoDIL the other day just to experience the kind of opposite vibes that JNMIL puts out. Imagine my surprise and disappointment when I realized that it’s just a bunch of shitposts. Not the content I was craving.
All the just no subs are filled with dramamongers
I feel for the OP that so many people are dogpiling on her for misusing the phrase childfree. She means not responsible for their day to day needs but it's a weird thing to pick on.
Good for her for standing her ground though.
Full disclosure - my MIL is my childcare BUT she is also a registered childminder, we pay her and she looks after other kids alongside ours and when they are old enough for nursery etc we do the appropriate thing.
And she didn't misuse the phrase childfree. She said:
Now that I’m child free
...which is different from the "childfree" cult. She clearly meant that she no longer has children living at home and is thus, child free. Totally correct.
But, you know, anything to bag on an older woman.
Oh 100%. But that seemed to be most of the comments.
Wasn't it bizarre? Heck if I have an afternoon away from my children (rip that this last year) I absolutely say I'm child free! I'm child free this afternoon, fancy a coffee? I'm child free this evening, coming for a drink?
If someone irl tried to gatekeep that I wouldn't be able to not laugh in their faces.
So bizarre! I use it in the same way, but the childfree sub are oddly militant about it.
The childfree movement people are very protective and don't want to be associated with someone who had kids, lol.
I mean I don’t think it’s a bad thing for grandma to take care of the kids, it’s just the presumption of that happening is entitled. IMO. That’s awesome you’ve got it worked out with your MIL 💪
My MIL lives in the same area as me and I don't expect her help for free. Whenever she helps I offer her cash and she turns it down. But my therapist told me it's appropriate to offer it for our relationship because it shows I view her time and help as things of value - which they totally are. And of course she can always say no.
Good for this woman. Your time is your time and you shouldn't donate your time over an expectation.
Yeah, my MIL is stepping in to watch the nugget a few days a week so I can work in peace, but its being done because she "wants to". She won't let us pay her, so we sneak things in that she won't say no to - like this week, my husband is smoking an extra pork butt for them ($0.99/lb at Kroger!), and I'm working on a special quilt that will go to her upon finish. Plus, we're providing diapers, wipes, formula, bottles, toys and anything else she could possibly need.
That's the right way.
We have had issues with money in the past with my inlaws (asking us for money when they knew we were struggling to feed ourselves, dh working a legit job for FIL and not getting paid what he earned, still wanting him to do manual labor for FILs business without being paid. . .) And I have issues with them crying poor while buying lots of luxuries. I try to mind my business but when they ask for a 'loan's it bugs me.
Anyways. Whenever we have asked them to watch the kids I ask if they need anything. It works because I'm saving them a trip to town and the old feelings about money don't come up. They always say they'll watch my kids full time while I work but I've been there and it is so much more trouble and cost (in lots of different ways) than just figuring it out on our own. It doesn't help that they think driving 40 minutes to their house to drop off and pick up is no big deal when my job is 10 minutes away and I make just over minimum wage. Time is money and I don't have either!
Always go off on a stupid tangent. I like how your therapist said you need to show them you value their time. It makes people who think family should do it for free realize nothing is really free. Their time is valuable too, even if my MIL is wasting it (in my opinion, she needs mental health help and refuses to try. I was there and feel for her so much but can't watch another parent slowly kill themselves.)
Exactly, it's about finding grace even in annoyance. They're still people, even if they're not great people. Simple courtesy goes a long way to maintaining a base, cordial understanding and minimizes drama.
There’s also a great deal of evidence, anecdotal and empirical, that people do not value things given away for free as much as things they must pay for.
Like pets. Weird comparison, I know. But it's pretty widely known that animals given away for free tend to be used as snake food or bait.
Exactly! I've had problems with my inlaws from the very beginning. We get along mostly now (besides one sister and now no one else wants her around either) because I don't assume everything is a damn attack. I really try not to judge them for living different. It's just hard when they are asking us for money while living better than we are. But I'm working through it and we have it pretty great right now since we steer clear of the drama topics, like the money issues and the SIL I refuse to let in our lives again.
Apparently my daughter has never listened to me in the past and was shocked when I stated this.
D: “But you’ll be retired by the time I have kids?”
OP: “ probably not. I’m not planning to retire until I’m in my 60s”. (Also... if I was retired I would be spending time on hobbies and holidays with my DH).
D: “ but then who will have my kids?”
OP: “ you’ll have to organise other childcare”.
D: “ but everyone else’s mum in our family has the kids...”
OP: “every other mum have either never worked or had miserable minimum wage jobs which they have been happy to dump.”
D: “..........”
I’ve left her to think about that. Am I being selfish because I want an independent life after my parental responsibilities end?
I don’t think this is selfish, this is like having a preference....
my mom loves all the time she gets with my kids, and actively comes to get them. She’s extremely active in their lives, and prefers it that way.
My mil is the opposite and likes all her grandkids from a distance, unless they’re in the teen years and can go shopping with her, she keeps a simple relationship with them.
Some women like being like a second parent to their grandkids, some are happy being the occasional visitor. It’s crazy to just force the expectation on someone.
Some women like being like a second parent to their grandkids, some are happy being the occasional visitor.
And on that sub, it doesn't matter which camp the MIL falls into, she's doing it wrong. "Second parent" the grandkids? She's tRyInG to sTeAL mY bAbY!! Only wants to see the kid occasionally because she's got a full life of her own? She's cold and weird and loves the other grandkids better and only cares about her son (and she hugs him eww) and and and.
God help you if you're a MIL and your DIL finds that sub. You'll be demonized for literally anything you do or don't do.
I really like OP’s mindset. It inspires me, I’m 12 years younger but I’m just now getting my undergrad and looking at the big big girl career. OP is energized by her freedom and her experience snd wants to keep moving forward in her career. The cultural reaction to that is reflected in her daughters response and some of the JNFAM comments
Oh thank god!
We are nearly the same age. I feel so behind because while I've gotten my undergrad, I've been a nanny/caregiver for the last 9 years. I feel like I've done so little with my life (I do have fulfilling hobbies, but my professional life has been undervalued for a long, long time.)
I'm so excited to get my COVID Vaccine and get a 'big girl career' too.
Sorry. Thank you for sharing. It made me feel a lot less alone!
Aw hell yeah! I’m a better student now that I ever could have been at 18. School rulezzzz
I was super lucky and had one 'fuckup' semester at 18. Landed in academic probation for a couple years, but I crawled my way out of it.
Unfortunately I graduated with a liberal arts degree and lived in D.C. during the Recession where double masters were only just getting entry-level government positions.
It took me about a year to get a nanny job while my spouse ended up working fast-food. It was really rough and kind of demoralizing.
My parents are very involved grandparents, but made it clear that they were not a free day care service. They were more than happy to take my kids for date nights but not every day while we were at work. Which I totally respected! When I lost my job, went back to school, and couldn’t afford full time child care, they did take my daughter a few days a week. Which I was incredibly grateful for but would never have demanded or even asked them to do (they offered and I gratefully accepted).
My in laws on the other hand are not super involved grandparents, which is also fine, except that they complained that we only ever asked my parents to babysit. Yeah, because whenever my BIL or SIL asked them to babysit they bitched about it 🙄
Shit, I lived with my parents when my oldest two were tiny and I didn't expect them to do any childcare. My mom will come during an emergency and she often takes one or two of them at a time over weekends, but that's because she wants to, not because I expect her to.
My dad and his wife have always said they wouldn’t be a regular childcare for us. They’ve had their kids (5 between them) and they would have to do it for everyone if they done it for me which would be years more of extra childcare for them. They have their own hobbies and often go away in their camper. They absolutely do help out but it’s on their terms. Isn’t part of having a child to look after them yourself and if you don’t have a solid plan I’m not sure you’re ready for kids....
Since my daughter was born, I've been a full-time work from home mom, and it started breaking me a bit. Thankfully, my MIL saw this and offered to step in and watch the nugget a few times in the week. We had a long talk about it, where I had to explain that I couldn't ask her because that was the kind of thing my JMM would hold over someone during bad times, and I have trouble with that type of thing. She told me that she wanted to and had to assure me multiple times that this would be happy for her.
But even though she's retired, we were still looking at childcare alternatives (and oh boy, are they expensive in our area), before we asked her. Because we knew if we did, she'd say yes and we didn't want her to feel like she had no choice.
So my brothers are a lot younger and were watched by my Dads parents while my parents worked. My aunt didn’t have that option had to send my cousins to daycare. The four boys in question are now grown men and she’s still salty about it. Spoiler it wasn’t even the grandparents we shared with them!
That's hilarious.
Damn, that daughter is super entitled. I'm the youngest of three, but the only one with children. My mom takes my kids all the time because she wants to. My mom still works, but even when she retires in a few years, I don't expect her to take care of my kids. My MIL never watches my kids, and I'm okay with that. I don't expect her to because that's not her job. None of my grandparents ever watched me (one set lived states away and the other set had 11 grandkids). My mother was a SAHM until my oldest sister was old enough to watch us for a while. Before that, she hired a babysitter!
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I wouldn't Judge anyone for living with their parents at any age. Anyone who gives you shit needs to learn about economics.
My MIL and mom both watched and still watch my kids in a grandparents type way ( once in a while) which with flexible scheduling through work has been a huge blessing and kept my kids from needing outside carers. My kids are preteen and I’ve told them I would do the same thing for their kids ( although one is already adamantly childfree ) but I’m not raising any more kids, there is a big difference.
It’s like the reverse of the entitlement of “ I birthed you and you must care for me 24/7 in my old age”. Which I’ve also told my kids they won’t be my caregivers. I didn’t have kids to take care of me in my old age.
My mother made it clear to me that she would happily hang out with any kids I might have, but she wasn't babysitting. Fair enough. If someone wants to, that's amazing, but it isn't required and shouldn't be expected. I agree with you entirely.
There was a Dear Prudence article a while ago where a woman said she was retiring and looking to move. Her son and DIL were offended. They assumed now that she was retiring she would be their childcare.
By all means, watch kids if you want to. By all means, ask those around you for help. It is the assumption that gets to me.
My mom has been very clear that once you become childcare you don't get to be "grandma" and have to almost be a mom again. And she wants to be a fun grandma, having already done the mom thing. And I think that's totally fair. I don't at all think it's selfish to say I shouldn't have to give up my career so you can have kids.
If this conversation was instead a husband and wife and the husband said "well duh you're staying home with the kids, all the other wives in our family do" we would be absolutely ragging him. And they're both parents.
Where is the understanding that our parents are their own people with their own lives and responsibilities? Why should our parents take on a financial (and physical, mental and emotional) burden so that we don’t have to? The entitlement here is truly overwhelming. I understand that if you are lucky, your parents are a good option for daycare, but not if they don’t WANT to be. If that is the case, the parents need to either arrange one of them to stay at home, or pay for care. My mum did babysit for me a lot when my oldest was little, but I was also a teenage single mum who was studying and living with them. As soon as I saw just how tired looking after a newborn was making my mother while I attended classes I enrolled her in daycare (6 weeks). Only for one day a week to begin with, then gradually increasing because I had to fight with my mother to justify the cost when she felt like she could be caring for her. But my mother was also trying to run a business and be a full time stay at home mum to my little brother, who was 7 when my daughter was born. She could have done it, and I trusted her, but I didn’t want her to burn herself out looking after MY baby. Now my parents are 18 years older she doesn’t want to care for my 3 yo old twins. Mum made that clear without me asking. I’m not angry or upset, because at the end of the day, they are MY (and hubby’s) kids, and no one else should ever be forced to care for them.
Me and my mother never spoke about childcare. I never assumed she drop her work to help me if I got a job. I’m in college and I pay for after school care, my mother will take my daughter a bit longer on the day she picks her up if I’m running late but that’s only ever by an hour or so. I like this op I’m glad she’s sticking to her guns
I tell my kids that if they dont want to have kids, I will support them. But if they do want to have theys, I will not raise them.
I have big plans to travel and enjoy some life after dedicating the last 20 years to them.
I think this OP is right on.
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”Should you be expected to do unpaid labour on behalf of another grown adult? No, if course not, but I sure hope you don't expect to enjoy the same rights and privileges with your grandchildren that your mother did, when you're not paying into the system the same way. That would also be unreasonable.”
Wow. Op states she'll do weekends and summer trips, but not quit her job and be an unpaid nanny. "Pay into the system"? Why is being a grandparent subject to paying homage to the dominance of the daughter or daughter in law? The grandparent-child relationship is beneficial to both members as is.
This comment sent me. It smacks of entitlement. Being a grandparent is not the equivalent of social security, FFS!
It's so bizarrely transactional. Apparently this commenter believes that you have to "earn" your relationship with your grandkids.
The entire sub is built on transactional relationships that require earning everything. Time outs, apologies with extremely specific parameters and moving goal posts, fulfilling extremely specific laundry lists of actions in order to interact in any sort of way. The whole sub is a great exercise in transactional psychology and the psychological games that people play, not even to mention perpetuation of the drama triangle to the extreme. You could use the posts and responses over there to program a bot that can answer questions because everything is a prescribed decision tree.
It's extremely helpful as a first step to getting out of abusive or toxic relationships, or helping you realize that a relationship is abusive or toxic, but definitely not a way to go about having an active relationship with someone.
Most of the advice should only be as a last effort to try and save a relationship that is toxic but not abusive (like ultimatums or time outs), or to get completely out of an abusive relationship (restraining orders, no contact), but it's not a good way to treat people on a regular basis.
I mean, they expect their husbands to “earn” sex with good behavior, so I don’t know why it keeps surprising me how extreme they get with this mentality.
That's a great point I hadn't thought of! There's a few things that always surprise me, and the callousness with which they treat the people in their lives is definitely one of them.
This is what I imagine conversations with that commenter are like:
Mom - "Hi sweetie. I hope you and the family are well! Your dad and I wanted to invite you guys over for dinner this weekend!"
Commenter - looks over her monthly points tally " Sorry Mom, you guys didn't earn enough points to redeem for a visit this month. You do have enough for a 5 minute video chat though!"
Mom - sighs and whispers "Ok" in the most defeated tone you've ever heard
Fin.
Does no one spend time with family because they like the company? Just today the boys and I had donuts with my dad and aunt, then lunch and Spongebob with my parents. The only trade off was I had to help trim the dog's nails and fix the printer, and I still came home with soup, cookies, and 2 dozen eggs.
My parents are happy to take the big one nearly any time, but not the baby. They raised their babies and want the entertaining one who is self sufficient. Makes sense to me.