Do I only build academies to get the maximum amount of nobles, or do I also build three courts of law to get more citizens and less freemen, but also less nobles? Has anyone done the math on this?
Also, are libraries worth it? How many of them should I build
Posted Mar 11, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC
Most people here seem to ignore the impact of civ value. Libraries increase civ value and therefore output and happiness in addition to research and all those modifiers multiply another. You still get diminishing returns though, so you'll always want a mix of libraries and aqueducts.
Theaters and Temples are great even if you already maxed out happiness and everyone is primary culture/religion simply because they are worth two and a half libraries in terms of civ value.
Court of law is a mixed bag. The increased citizen ratio actually increases the average research per pop if your citizens have at least the same happiness as your nobles, but it increases food demand more than trade routes, so you'll be needing a higher % of trade routes to feed your pops. If that is not an issue I'd recommend:
3 academies
3 courts of law
Great temple
Great theater
X libraries
Y aqueducts
Thank you very much! My main concern was whether courts of law increase or decrease the total reasearch output of a province, since they would work against the academies and slightly reduce the number of nobles, but if they increase overall research I think it's worth it, even if it gives me less trade routes.
Yes, they increase it, but not much. The real benefit is multiplicative with the buff from libraries, because it increases the base value per pop.
I would also like to know this.
I have heard some people say that it is worth building noble buildings only in your capital region. The nobles benefit from your import slots and will be happier. But outside your capital, it can be harder to keep the nobles happier
I thought the reason why people prefer the citizen buildings is they help with provincial loyalty.
I don't know about meta or optimal, but I build 3x Academies for the max amount of Nobles, all 3 of the unique buildings for the increased happiness and civilization value (even if I don't need the conversion/assimilation) and fill up the remaining slots with Libraries.
What I don't know yet, if it's better to keep building aqueducts to increase the local pop capacity so more pops can make use of the buildings you already invested in the city, or if it's better to make another city and have migration push the extra pops into the new city. Aqueducts don't contribute other than pop capacity, so at that point it feels I'm just diluting pops and not really benefiting from having so many modifiers in 1 city.
I think the idea is if you concentrate pops in your capital region you can get better bonuses from the imported goods. Also building new cities reduces your food output, but concentrating people in one city doesn't. That said, in my judea game it seems like I can't get enough pops to fill the cities or countryside.
Yeah I was considering the Capital Province for the additional cities since all the cities will share in the local trade bonuses. But do you slap on more aqueducts on your existing cities, or would you just found more (assuming your food can take it)? I noticed that cities can receive migrants from quite far away (not only the same province, but from the same region it seems), so you can wait for migrants to fill your cities, or you combine the Social Mobility Governor Policy with moving Slaves to fill them I guess. I'm still playing around with using existing high pop territories and turning those into cities, but I might try to fill up existing ones first using Slave / Tribesman movement.
Pops equal research, though.
So the trick with concentrating pops in one province or generally fewer provinces is that the effects of trade goods and relicts all apply.
For most cities, the increase in pops from an aqueduct (like 7% more population) is bigger than the I create jn research from a library (5%). However, most cities grow slowly, so basically if you can afford it, build libraries until the pop limit is reached and the destroy a library for another aqueduct.
So this question comes down to aqueducts or libraries.
I calculated the percentage increase of population from the aqueduct vs. the 5% research point bonus of the library. This should roughly make sense as the ratio of the different pops stays the same and thus X% more nobles and citizens should mean roughly X% more research points.
So in my current Rome run, 140 pops was the point where another aqueduct would yield less than 5% increase in pops ( 6/140 = 4,2%).
So I figured I'd build aqueducts until then (around 11, I think) and then start with libraries.
And of course 3 academies for more nobles.
Thanks! And I assume you don't build courts of law with how the game currently works, because nobles are just some much better than citizens right now, right?
Yeah, I basically just build aqueducts and libraries, with some academies.
A point to note here is that it might make sense to build libraries "ahead of time" since the population hasn't grown large enough yet to justify another aqueduct.
Depending on which country you play this might differ, but in my Rome play so far (conquered Italy and Greece), money doesn't seem to be any issue soon.
I also go integration/conversion policies in every province ASAP so that the pops start producing some real cash and research.
ok, thank you very much!
Oh and the foundry! Almost forgot about that. There are two techs that give research bonuses in the oratory tree, but a powerful inevtion is "blacksmith apprentices", four inventions down the material science tree, which enables the Foundry. That gives +25% research or 5 libraries worth. So basically that's the best building. So: