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r/characterdrawing•
Squows

[UPDATE] Artist Directory; Auto-removing posts containing "Commission" and similar wording; Rule 4 addition; Tightening focus of the subreddit

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Bunch of updates for your reading pleasure.

About the Artist Directory...

Did you know that there is an artist directory for r/characterdrawing? We update it often. There are instructions and qualifications on how to get on the list. A link to the directory will be added as an AutoModerator message to [COM] posts later on, so it could be worth your while if you get on the list.

You do not need to be accepting commissions in order to be on the directory. You can also use it to show off more of your artwork!

Auto-Removing Posts Containing Advertising-Like Wording

I am sure everyone definitely read my last update post where I mentioned a new user flair was introduced to help curb advertising in titles. After four months of discussion and observation, the mod team has decided to implement a blanket ban on words and phrases such as "Commission", "For Hire", and similar within post titles. Non-[COM] post titles containing these words/phrases will begin to be auto-removed soon after this post is made.

- WHY?

The core of this subreddit is for the FREE system in place - the [LFA] and [RF] posts. The addition of [OC] helps bring traffic to our corner of the internet by attracting people who might want to get their character drawn or artists who might be generous enough to draw a character of their choosing with no strings attached. Advertising or otherwise mentioning commissions (i.e. paid-for content) is not only putting more emphasis on the services of the artist rather than the character within the artwork, but it is working against the LFA/RF system.

By restricting what can be put in the titles, we hope to not only cut out the chronic Rule 4 breakers but to also narrow the focus on the sub further onto the characters within the artwork.

- BUT MY ARTWORK WAS A COMMISSION! CAN'T I SAY THAT?

Yes - as a comment or in the picture caption, likely with your contact information. The auto-removal should only apply to post titles.

- CAN'T WE HAVE SOMETHING OUT THERE TO SHOW WE TAKE COMMISSIONS?

We already have, in the last update post you definitely read. You can set your user flair (this is different from post flair which is auto-assigned by our bot) so that "Artist - Open For Commissions" shows up next to your username on all posts and comments. You can also respond to any [COM] posts where someone wants to hire an artist and leave your contact information.

Updates to Rule 4

Minor changes overall. First,

  • Do not make titles that are blatant advertising of commissioning as opposed to focusing on characters

Will be changed to:

  • Titles must focus on the character(s) within the artwork and contain no advertising.

Second, posts like excerpts from your own webcomic will be removed as advertising. Reason being that these sorts of posts end up spawning copycats, even if the original is well-intentioned. This will be subject to moderator interpretation, for someone could post a multi-paneled [OC] that has nothing to do with an outside webcomic or similar and would probably still deserve to be shown off on our subreddit. Also, good on you for reading this far! Say "quack" in the comments!

Tightening Focus of the Subreddit

We are going to be harder on removing content that does not appear to be involved with TTRPGs in any way. This includes (but is not limited to) [LFA]s looking for things like YouTube channel icons, [OC] fanart of Avatar: The Last Airbender, and others. So long as the post is believably involved with some kind of TTRPG (and there are tons out there) the post won't be removed.

This won't be a rule because it would be impossible to enforce - we're not going to ask you for your character sheet and a timestamp or something equally stupid. But if you are posting the same artwork across multiple subreddits with zero indication that it is from a TTRPG (within the artwork or in text somewhere) then you don't leave us much room for interpretation.

[COM] posts will be unaffected by this change, but remember that any artwork that originated from a [COM] post is still [OC] and thus subject to this change.

Posted May 27, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

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butter_otterArtist•

I think some people are exaggerating when they say it's going to affect artist's livelihood or it's going to affect them in any way. I don't think I ever wrote "commissions open" in the titles of my posts on this subreddit, I only mention it in the comments. But I get DMs and commission inquires almost every time that I post.

If people like your art and want more of it, they'll let you know.

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DnDelightfulArt Enthusiast•

this is correct

butte is always correct

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butter_otterArtist•

Agreed

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Thresh_GrimaArtist•

Happy to see the sub returning to its roots. Its such a cool community driven thing thats slowly been taken over by irrelevant art and self promotion. Even if this does affect post frequency, I think its for the better.

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Meggles_Doodles•

Quack!

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RobustaArtArtist - Open For Commissions•

I agree that this isn't a job board and should never become one. The fact that a lot of art lovers gathering here to appreciate a smaller number of artists benefits us artists greatly, both in terms of exposure and job opportunities. Flooded with self promotions, the sub will get saturated and lose its core audience, and in the end, there'll be only artists promoting to one another.

This is the reason why commission dedicated subs never get that much engagement from non-artist audience, who happen to be the main source of clients.

As an artist who have been getting a decent amount of clients from this sub, I wholeheartedly agree to this reasonable change.

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Moon_Wolf_Ultima•

Quackity Queckity I read this Quickity

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Mishirene•

quack

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SquowsOPMOD•

As an aside, people keep using this thread to ask off-topic questions. You can still do this, but be aware that I may not answer in time.

If you message the moderators, you are likely to get an answer faster regardless of your time zone.

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ohanalei•

Quack. Focus already WAS on RFs. People can only post OC once a week, Monday - Thursday. That is a TON of emphasis on RF artwork. And I understood that. It balanced things out since it can be hard for RFs to compete with original content. I also understood wanting a description of the character in the title as opposed to "ILLUSTRATOR FOR HIRE- COMMISSIONS OPEN".

This, though, is just insulting. The highly skilled artists you claim to want in this sub deserve the right to make it clear to people *glancing at the post on their timeline* that they are open for commissions. You know. The kind of people who don't check flairs. AKA the majority of upvotes on this subreddit. Adding a polite "Commissions Open" to the title after a description of the art was hurting exactly no one. These artists relied on that for income. Many of them did RFs, but if this space is no longer a space that will help them purchase groceries, and has, in fact, become a space that barely tolerates their attempts to make a living, they are going to go elsewhere. They ARE going elsewhere.

And so am I. I don't take commissions, but I have enjoyed posting OC in addition to doing rfs. Since OC has now been explicitly stated to be something you (barely) put up with in order to facilitate people getting higher quality free art, it has now been kicked down to a level where I feel far too alienated to continue posting at all. I hope it was worth it.

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SquowsOP•

The kind of people who don't check flairs.

People also don't read our rules.

...but if this space is no longer a space that will help them purchase
groceries, and has, in fact, become a space that barely tolerates their
attempts to make a living...

This isn't a jobs board. We don't owe anybody their livelihood, food, or shelter. You know damn well there are plenty of commission-spam subs out there.

Since OC has now been explicitly stated to be something you (barely) put up with

OC isn't being restricted any further unless it appears completely off-topic of TTRPGs. And if people feel like they are being oppressed, they can also post on the other twenty bazillion art subreddits regardless of advertising. They should do that regardless, since people across the site should enjoy their artwork if the artist enjoys showing it off.

They ARE going elsewhere. And so am I.

We appreciate the people who have stuck with us through these changes and want to see this community grow and understand that there will be growing pains. We won't get everything right as a mod team, and some things cannot be repaired even if we revert. Because of this, some of our changes won't vibe with people, and that's okay.

Best of luck in your future endeavors.

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quardriWhat The Actual Hell•

Quack. Both of you make valid points regarding the subject.

  1. Regarding the OC thing being only ttrpg. While certainly the original intent was for ttrpg characters to be shown/drawn, my opinion on the matter would be that any kind of character seems fine to be placed up there, and it may serve as a good reference or character picture for others in their own ttrpg games

  2. Regarding the "commissions" not being in the title. My opinion on the matter is that they are still allowed to post their commission details within the artwork comments. Perhaps a [OC] [Commissions Open](character name) title tag might help instead? So that people wouldn't write their full comm description in the title, and instead give that characters name

  3. Regarding the commission artists vs rf artists, my thoughts were that it was not really a thing you could really restrict. Many factors contribute to the popularity disparity between OC content and RF, and the previous restrictions have shown it was more based off the artists skills or the general taste of the viewers, which is something that cannot be controlled within the subreddit.

The changes seem a little too restrictive in terms of the visibility of the comm artists. Perhaps a review on how the title could be tidied to help both the viewers and artists gain clarity on the artwork may be needed.

I hope that this issue can be resolved to give all artists their best opportunities

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z4m97Artist•

This isn't a jobs board. We don't owe anybody their livelihood, food, or shelter. You know damn well there are plenty of commission-spam subs out there.

Can you see how it is at least a slightly bit confusing when you claim, as a community, to appreciate our work and our willingness to give time and effort for free and want to appreciate our work... And then go ahead and say —in quite a harsh tone— that you don't owe us jack shit; elevating people's desire for art while trivialising our needs to, yknow, eat. ?

Art is a product that has a value. That value, in the case of an RF, is never paid, and while giving away valuable things to people who want it is a totally legitimate thing to do (it's called charity) doing a 180 and saying that artists and their needs and struggles are not important and they should go somewhere else to whine about it, shows a level of ingratitude that is correctly labeled as hostility against the artists you are gleefully requesting to hand over their work from.

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REO_SpeedweedMOD+10 CHA•

Going back to the actual announcement itself, there seems to be a lot of unnecessary reading-too-much-into these changes. Objectively it boils down to this: We want to encourage more interesting titles that tell stories about what people made, to catch people's attention about what or who this character is about.

It's noticeably more palatable to see "[RF]/[OC] Bonke the Kobold necromancer-turned-palentologist" rather than "Kobold commission, DM me."

If this is not compatible to what you want out of this subreddit, then that is unfortunate and perhaps you should search for one that suits your preferences. There are a lot of artists in this community that understand changes like this are necessary in keeping the identity of this subreddit apart from other art locales.

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z4m97Artist•

The problem here is a disregard for the artists in the community.

This sub keeps saying how they love art, but seemingly believe it manifests out of the ether and we just happen to be the ones who post it, and not that we are people who take time out of our day to find interesting LFAs and gift someone a piece.

The fact of life is that we are the ones creating the art, and that art is a big part of what pulls people to this sub, and yet, when it comes to the rules that mostly affect us, we are never taken into consideration. At best it is put to a general vote in a server where most people don't have a stake in the results.

And whenever we say "hey, this affects me, I don't like it" we are treated as if we are not part of this community, and get told to find other communities to post on.

At the end of the day, it's ok if you don't mind the sub losing a lot of artists; if you want to value the original intent of the sub over everything else that is totally valid, but you are gonna have to get comfortable saying that you don't really care about us.

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Balloon_Police16MODArtist - Open For Commissions•

Putting aside the curtness of mod squows' reply and going back to the root of the problem, the rule only dictates that advertising is not allowed in titles. You can place your details in the comments section of your posts.

We aren't hostile towards artists, we only want to emphasize what it is this subreddit is made for, which is for artists to, on their own accord, fulfill ttrpg players' requests pro bono. It isn't that we don't value your contributions to the community nor do we want you to starve, we're simply keeping to the sub's reason for being.

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z4m97Artist•

So, there is a misunderstanding here. The problem is not that we won't be able to say we have commissions open in the title, but rather, that this is an unnecessary rule that negatively affects a group of users in the community, while providing a very little benefit to the rest.

As a community, characterdrawing keeps talking about the need for the artwork being "pro bono", and the thing is: advertisement, does not actually stop it from being pro bono. You are still not paying the artists for the time and effort they put into the art; as you yourself point out, we would still be able to "advertise" through the comments.

The problem is, that not allowing people to put a discrete (commissions open) at the end of the title, — nothing blatant, mind you, just that — lowers the chances for potential clients to actually notice that you are in fact, open for commissions.

Believe me, I understand the very simple concept of writing things in a comment, and not in the title.

So I hope you can see that this rule will not make the work more pro bono, it will actually affect people's ability to make money AND do request fulfillment (as it is harder to justify the time spent working on a piece of you won't really be able to get any benefit from it other than the fuzzy feels) and realize why we say it is hostile towards artists.

Not because we feel you don't want us here, but because it seems like the community values more what some people like in the titles of the posts, than our needs and the way this may negatively affect us.

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ohanalei•

It is incredibly intellectually dishonest to make a 'gotcha' point out of this not being a jobs board. Of course it isn't. I did not say or even imply that it was. Of course there are subreddits devoted to getting commissions. But the artists you say you want here, the ones who up the quality of the subreddit and draw attention here and ultimately get more LFAs drawn, chose THIS place. I thought you wanted them to stay here. People like that are not going to stay in a place that is using their skill to draw eyes without letting them draw some of those eyes to their businesses. They literally cannot afford to, no matter how much they might like the RF system or want to engage with it. There are not enough hours in the day for them to do this without getting SOMETHING back from this other than, as you put it, showing off.

That said, you've made it quite clear that this has been considered and judged acceptable. I guess it's pretty clear that I'm angry, but mostly I'm incredibly hurt that a community that I cared about very much--the first subreddit I joined--has decided to talk about the artists that provide its service for it like they are money-grubbing show boaters. It's sad. I'm really sad. I hope someday I hear through the grapevine that you have reverted because even if this place manages to thrive despite the rule change, this is WRONG. Thank you for the answer. Best of luck to you as well.

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Balloon_Police16MODArtist - Open For Commissions•

Going back to the root of the problem, all the rule asks is that artists keep their commission details in the comment sections of their posts, this isn't the mod team telling everone to pack it.

We aren't trying to devalue the time of the artists who take the time to post on our community nor are we telling you to starve. All the mod team is trying to do is keep the focus on what the subreddit was made for, which is for artists to, on their own accord, fulfill ttrpg players' requests pro bono.

Please don't treat the rule change as anything more than it is, or an artist-wide insult, and if there is any more concern, please do feel free to contact the sub's moderators through modmail.

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are_you_breadyAspiring sketchist•

whoa, y'all really don't like artists huh

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REO_SpeedweedMOD+10 CHA•

Pikat, I honestly cannot tell if you are being serious or not, because it doesn't really help the discussion.

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