Source
r/SeeTV•
HitMePat

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king

Can we talk about how under powered the sighted people are in this show so far?

Well maybe not under powered necessarily...but they consistently fail to take advantage of their sight effectively. In S2e1 when Boba Voss tells Kofun he can't come help save Haniwa, I rolled my eyes so hard it hurt my neck.

Seriously? Give anyone with vision and half a brain some weapon...a spear or sword or knife etc, and they could probably march into a city of blind people and murder every single one of them without being touched. No matter how well trained. They're trained to fight other blind people...vision is a 10,000x power up in a fight compared to blind soldier training.

I love the show, but I have a hard time sometimes getting passed how these sighted kids are constantly somehow at risk of blind enemies capturing or hurting them...

Posted Sep 4, 2021, 1:57 AM UTC

1329
[deleted]•

Give anyone with vision and half a brain some weapon...a spear or sword or knife etc, and they could probably march into a city of blind people and murder every single one of them without being touched. No matter how well trained.

well now you are just completely overpowering them lol. you realize you are saying person with vision can kill thousands upon thousands of people. they are blind, not braindead. they can talk lol

14
Paragon_97•

You forget the fact that they have a sighted boy(maybe more, who knows)in Trivantes who serves as the surveillance of the city. If Kofun came along, he'd just get in the way, and both baba and he would get caught and things would've gone south quick. Vision isn't everything. Sure, kofun has sight to help, but is he physically ready to take down hundreds of trained blind soldiers? no.

9
HitMePatOP•

The sighted boy could be a problem for him. But when Boba Voss tells Kofun he would just get in the way because he could hear his every move, Boba didn't know about the sighted boy security system.

I'm strictly talking about sighted vs blind encounters. Like when Kofun easily got captured by witch hunters in that same episode... It seems totally unrealistic to me. You say vision isn't everything, but when it comes to either evading or fighting your enemies, it should be an extremely one sided contest if one person has vision and no one else does. The show seems to level the playing field really unrealistically.

Even in episode 2 of this season when Boba tells Wren she walks too fast for a blind person... The blind can't even compete in the simple act of walking. Throw in obstacles in the environment that they can trick the blind people into running into or tripping over...etc. I just don't think the blind would stand a chance if someone sighted like Boots or Kofun or Hamina decided to go wild and take power by force. Yet they're constantly shown in a state of struggle.

-3
Paragon_97•

Kofun got captured by the witchfinders because they had dogs with them that could easily track them down. Thats why him and paris couldn't go anywhere. They had no choice. Plus, baba voss had to steal the armor of the solider he killed and mask his smell with his to get into trivantes(which was pretty cool and smart)

We'll see where things go from here.

5
HitMePatOP•

Plus, baba voss had to steal the armor of the solider he killed and mask his smell with his to get into trivantes(which was pretty cool and smart)

But a person with vision could have used the same trick. Or just walked in easily without being detected by the blind people...because he can see them and avoid them.

Think about the psychology of a blind guard in a world where everyone is blind. Their defenses are focused on detecting other blind people. A blind enemy can't guarantee they'll be able sneak in anywhere stealthily...because they don't know where they're going, or if they'll stealthily bump into another blind guard. A person with vision can scout out an entry from a distance and easily plan a route to walk past guards after they observe the guards routines. The guards wouldnt have any idea they're being surveilled, even if the sighted person is standing just 20 feet away, because they don't even know sighted people exist.

IMO it's a weakness in the whole plot of the show. Theres no realistic way blind people could defend themselves in any way vs the sighted. Especially when bows and arrows and other projectiles are options for the sighted.

-2
breakfastsamurai•

I agree with you, there’s a lot of reaching

0
Sabadill•

I've met blind people irl and they aren't as helpless as you would imagine.

Here we have trained warriors that have no remorse in butchering people and Kofun is an untrained and empathic person that will hesitate. The number of guards is huge.

I don't think Kofun would have the endurance to get through the burning coals. Probably Baba knew something like that would be nessesary.

7
SunHitsTheSky•

We are also taking Baba Voss at face value. I'm sure he doesn't want to risk having Kofun captured by Edo. He also probably doesn't want Kofun to see the things he knew he would have to do in order to get to Haniwa. And lastly he may hope to shield his children from finding out more about his past.

2
Imakemop•

I think that's the biggest thing. Kofun just isn't a killer. His dad knows it. That's why he lets the daughter go.

1
ranawe•

I think you really under estimate the blind/ disabled. You don’t realize how much you rely on your eyes as opposed to your other senses. How often are you always paying attention to your surroundings? How many turns you take to go to the grocery store? I do not pay attention to how loud I’m being unless I’m sneaking a midnight snack. If I remember correctly from my psych classes the area of your brain that controls vision more pronounced. People in See are forced to rely on and develop their 4 other senses. Also the blind do have to be hyper aware as it can mean life or death. A disability doesn’t necessarily make someone weaker, nicer, or less intelligent.

5
hulduet•

In a way I think it makes sense. Kofun would possibly make more noise and draw attention to him. You may have noticed Baba made a comment about how he suspected that the guard woman had sight because of how she moved. You can assume other people would have noticed things like this as well in the show. She was adept at hiding it(obviously) but during the rescue scene she didn't bother.

Also I wouldn't underestimate trained soldiers even if they are blind. Yes with sight you have a very good advantage - at range. The second you start getting in close, especially without any real training/experience you'd probably be in big trouble. After all the blind people still have hearing.

They've also shown, in the show, blind archers doing quite well. Really we shouldn't underestimate how good hearing is if you have no sight. You'd start to learn to pay attention to small details you normally wouldn't do if you had sight.

4
Sabadill•

Yes I agree.

Also, there is Darwin. Survival of the fittest has selected the very best at adapting to be blind. They aren't anything like the blind of today that get a lot of help and protection.

2
HitMePatOP•

Right I get that they're trying to portray the other senses like hearing and smell as being heightened, to the point where it levels the playing field a bit...but they completely ignore the potential strategies and abilities available to the sighted when their opponents are blind. The sighted live in that world too, and get the opportunity to witness (with their vision) how blind people interact in the world. They can easily learn to exploit those behaviors. When it's blind vs blind you see a lot of "Ah ha, I heard something over there and now I'm focusing my hearing in that direction" type moments...if it's blind vs sighted, the person who can see would SEE that blind person turn their ears and try to act all quiet...it wouldn't work nearly as well vs them.

I'm not saying I could beat up a blind Bautista or Jason Momoa if we were locked in a small room together...but if we were in an open environment and I spotted them at a distance >20 feet away or so... They wouldn't have a chance if I had a weapon. Not because I'm tough, I don't know shit about fighting, but vision is really just that much of an advantage.

The plot of the show completely ignores their advantage and just writes the sighted characters as if they're a regular joe with no cunning or guile or skill for strategy whatsoever, in order to level the playing field between them and their blind enemies.

0
MaximumPositive6471•

I'm not saying I could beat up a blind Bautista or Jason Momoa if we were locked in a small room together...but if we were in an open environment and I spotted them at a distance >20 feet away or so... They wouldn't have a chance if I had a weapon. Not because I'm tough, I don't know shit about fighting, but vision is really just that much of an advantage.

"If we were in an open environment". I don't know if you realized this, but you stumbled into an ancient and time honoured tradition in martial arts: the "if only". "If only everything in the situation favoured my fighting style, I would be unbeatable". Sure, let's say that. But what if it doesn't?

What if you're going down corridors with no light? What if you're in an visually obstructed environment? What if blood and dirt hit your eyes? What if you're surrounded? What if you're being grappled and the only thing you see is different shades of chest and armpit?

And of course, the tradition goes on, that when pointed out the original speaker has to go on how they would manipulate the environment to give them back that advantage. But, they lost, because the environment will never do what you want it to do. Which is why the best defense technique is not to fight, and not roll those dice in the first place.

In the end, the character involved was an unskilled kid, an average joe, which was going to be outnumbered by skilled warriors so the logic tracked. But I'm sure if it were you, you'd have taken out an entire kingdom single handedly. You'd totally also survive an apocalypse, you're just that smart and resourceful.

7
hulduet•

Yes that's what I was talking about. The real advantages of having sight is range. You see them long, long before they notice you. Archers or any ranged weapon would be super useful. I'd still avoid going into melee with a trained blind soldier however(if I weren't). You have to remember they are still using sharp/blunt weapons no matter what. In a fist fight you'd probably have a pretty good advantage just dancing around "quietly".

2
100dalmations•

Completely agree. And a sighted person won't have as good hearing. SO you could be the sniper if you had an infinite supply of arrows. But as soon as someone hears you and stalks you, you're dead.

What would be unbeatable is a sighted person with a normal with their heightened hearing and sense of smell.

1
HitMePatOP•

Hearing can't overcome vision though. A sighted person could make noises as diversions and watch their enemies reactions in real time.

Everyone thinks the sighted people have zero potential for cunning or tactics...in reality it would be the opposite. They have a crazy amount of strategies available to neutralize the blind people's super hearing... It's not just sniping. They can see which hand the enemies weapon is in. How long its reach is Which direction they're going to swing it from. The blind have NONE of those advantages. I think the show nerfs sighted people way too hard.

2
yoshimipinkrobot•

Highly doubt even if they were 20 feet away and you were untrained you could do anything. You’d have to be deadly and quiet with the ranged weapon. When they closed the distance you’d be toast

2
Riven_Genji_Wraith•

This show has major plot holes but the explanation you used with Kofun not being able to come help isn’t one of them. Think about the fact that there’s only 2 million people left on earth and it’s been centuries since people could see. Natural selection will play a huge role and people alive will have heightened senses compared to what is normal. And then the show also shows there’s people who are the cream of the crop when it comes to certain genetics like hearing. I forget what title they gave them but they would always ask a certain girl what she hears in the distance since she had the best hearing. So yeah I think it is very plausible Kofun would’ve been loud as hell and gave them away. The show also shows that skilled fighters like Voss can kick Kofuns ass.

4
100dalmations•

I've thought about this, and of course that's a premise of a lot of the plot: sighted people could be gods, the conceit of Jeralamarel, etc. But as the story unfolds we see the playing field gets leveled every day when the sun sets. Then you're worse off b/c you haven't learned to listen, to smell, to develop the insane proprioception that BV has when carving up his opponents.

Sighted people probably can't sneak up on the normals very well- depending on other conditions- wind, other noise to hide in (I've wondered if noise could be used as a smoke screen in this world- making it hard to perceive the enemy eg).

3
yoshimipinkrobot•

Kofun is soft and can barely throw a punch. There’s a huge difference in toughness between trained fighters and amateurs

He’d basically have to stop someone in one blow or shot every time other wise they’d grab him and wreck him

2
AtticusReborn•

Whenever I see this argument made, I'm amazed that people don't realise several things about Kofun. Firstly, he's not a fighter. He never showed any interest in weapons, unlike Naniwa, he's never received any fighting training from Baba Voss (Intentionally, due to Baba's opinions on his past life), and he's clumsy. We know from season 1 that there are skilled fighters who have fought sighted people and won, with ease (Witch Hunters). Then we add that Baba is only able to infiltrate Trivantes because he KNOWS Trivantes, he knows the rules and laws which allow him to have contacts inside the city, which allow him to tell a convincing story to not be accused of being a fraud by the border guard.

If Kofun had gone in, he'd be dead or caught the moment he tried to do anything outside of what everyone else was doing. We saw how Baba Voss fights, in the Slaver fight in season 1. Sighted people struggle to hide their location, even with a bow, it's hard to aim, and you have to remain still, making you an easy target. Kofun didn't have the right attitude, now the mentality to kill.

1
JoeFromBaltimore•

My big plot hole question is why didn't Jerlamarel find some more gals to hang with and have more kids? Jerlamarel had to have some game with the ladies - a couple dozen kids with vision would be a game changer in a big way - Mongolian boys begin riding horses at age three. By age five, they begin shooting arrows from horseback and hunting small game. Would not take long for people with sight to change the balance of power - twenty years for sure - especially when the kids with sight started to have kids -

projectile weapons, Bows & Arrows - or a crossbow or six - Agincourt anyone? Blind guys on horseback against archers - No way that turns out good for the blind dudes on horseback -

1
HitMePatOP•

Are you all caught up with season 2? I don't wanna spoiler anything for you if you aren't

1
JoeFromBaltimore•

Okay I will catch up - I am still in Season 1 - probably got out over my skis on this one -

1
JoeFromBaltimore•

I finished season 1 - dude did have a bunch more offspring - there is a long term plan moving forward -

1
Thugnificent83•

The sighted people being so weak has bugged me since the beginning. There is almost no way in hell Kofun should ever lose a fight in this world. A person who could see would should pretty much always have a bow and a spear if necessary. Your range would be insane compared to theirs and even if they somehow close in, you can move a hell of a lot faster since they only seem to take small incremental steps.

Like others said, if it's a close corridor situation, the blind guys could close the advantage gap a bit, but they do a ton of fighting outside in the woods on this show and he still gets his ass kicked. That's just pathetic.

-1
yoshimipinkrobot•

Have you seen someone untrained try to pickup a bow and use it? Or even a gun? They miss or fail all the time. Non trained fighters are really weak. You’re watching too much tv if you think people have deadly power out of nowhere

3
Thugnificent83•

Nobody said just pick up a bow and instantly be good. It's called practice, and it wouldn't take much to make him far better than any blind guy with a bow.

But even if he never got proficient with a ranged weapon, his legs work just fine. At worst, every fight for him should be a draw, since nobody blind would be able to move in a fight the way he can.

0