I think it would be better if Scotland and Wales were already part of the UK in 1962.

Lore Discussion

Either that, or, instead of there being a unified Great Britain in the Einheitspakt, England, Wales, and Scotland all start as German puppets and Great Britain is reunited during the German civil war, either by the collaborators or the resistance, depending on who comes out on top, in order to be in a stronger position while Germany is in turmoil, or to be able to better defend against Germany once their civil war ends.

The reason for this is because one of the possible themes for the OFN is that they can let all those declining empires, starting with the United Kingdom, then the Italian Empire, and eventually Germany and Japan themselves, join the OFN, which in the worst case scenario would lead to the collapse of the OFN.

We already get a small glimpse as to how this could look like with the USA trying to maintain Italy's colonial empire in the middle east in the current place holder oil crisis conflicts.
And eventually in TNO2 we might see similar interventions with the USA trying to maintain a weakend German and Japanese overlordship over eastern Europe and the Asia pacific, while China and a re-unified Russia are on the rise.

My idea here would be that a OFN United Kingdom, the smallest of these empires, if you can even call it one, would be the first place where such a US intervention happens.
This would a very small-scale intervention and happen some time before the oil crisis, in the form of the US suppressing small-scale independence movement in Scotland and Wales, similar to what they do in the caribbean.
And maybe if Thatcher is prime minister, the USA could later on be dragged in some wars in South America by the UK (Falklands) and the Caribbean if a bunch of anti-OFN rebellions happen there (think Trinidad and Tobago), or even against the West African Union.

I think this would be more fun than the current scenario, where the English resistance (which was supported by Scotland!) always ends up going to war with OFN-aligned Scotland, without the USA doing anything about it.
I know this will get reworked at some point, although I don't know in what way, and while an independent Scotland and Wales would obviously be a very "wholesome" outcome, I think an alreadly unified UK or one that unifies during the German civil war would fit better with the darker themes of TNO.

Posted Nov 30, 2021, 1:02 PM UTC

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Jaggedmallard26•

Wales is getting merged in with England because it never made any sense even by the standards of the mods alt-history. And frankly wasn't very good.

I think an independent Scotland is fine but for the mods story and themes but really should be more divided between unionism and nationalism to both be a bit more realistic and to make a more interesting story (which is the more important one). A komi style system of heavy factionalism would suit it perfectly and guiding it to a preferred outcome with the heavy outside interference of England (this could go both ways depending on how you play), Germany and the OFN giving it its own flavour. Guiding it to a preferred outcome instead of a default unamicable reunification should be challenging and engaging.

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gagasserMother Anarchy loves her children•

i know this may be an unpopular opinion, but every country needs to suffer from heavy factionalism, the more the merrier.

Every country like Russia would be optimal ie divided in 50 states and everyone with like 4 paths minimum?

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Jaggedmallard26•

I wouldn't go that far, Scotland is just in a unique place of having lots of refugees, a populace that is already going to be heavily split over reunification while also being of heavy interest to several outside powers. Its perfect for it and generic last light on Europe indy Scotland is kind of boring. Every country being komi would also be boring.

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Changeling_WilJustinian did nothing wrong•

Wales is getting merged in with England because it never made any sense even by the standards of the mods alt-history. And frankly wasn't very good.

Gross.

If they don't like the content of a nation, they should upgrade the content. Not just lazily remove content :/

-5†
RealEdge69HehePRAISE THE FATHER!•

Wales didn't make much sense in the context of the story.

Scotland is independent because that's where the OFN stopped the tide of fascism. There's no real reason for Wales to be free when it should have been occupied alongside the rest of England.

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Changeling_WilJustinian did nothing wrong•

I mean, it did.

Wales was basically it breaking off and the Germans being fine with that because they turned Wales into an adhoc economic colony. It being seperate from England is a way to further weaken the English by denying them access to the rich coal fields there.

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Jaggedmallard26•

The problem with Wales is its broken off as an independent democracy. It should either have been left a part of England or broken off into a separate Einheitspakt Mitstreiter. The lore as it stands is that the Germans and Allies just wholesale ignored Wales and then when they got bogged down in Cumbria and the Scottish lowlands the Welsh peaced out. Which doesn't make sense, Wales would be a giant exposed flanks for the Germans and there are many ports the Allies would be able to use to launch counter attacks through there. The geographical boundaries that would make a counter attack via Wales too difficult are reasonably deep inside the country and also don't protect the major population centres and southern ports.

The concept of Wales breaking off and peacing out as it did is also pretty nonsensical and borderline insulting but that's a different matter and partly me speaking from my Welsh military roots. It feels like they had an idea for balkanised UK and then did after the fact explanation for it and just copied how Scotland did it.

Ideally Wales would be a Northern Ireland style puppet state of England with its own focus trees and the potential to properly become independent where it would make more sense because of decades of Nazi occupation and collab government oversight. But failing that I imagine they'll just do similar to Kaiserreich and have certain England paths break it off either by force or by federalisation.

15
Soarel25Miserere Nobis•

Exactly! I really liked Cayo

2
FaultyTerror•

I don't mind them being independent but the UK shouldn't be a dead concept and the nationalists shouldn't automatically be in charge. It wasn't until the 70s the SNP and Plaid won seats in a general election.

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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KmapLds9•

Disagree, it makes sense if you consider the fact that everyone doesn’t know lore-wise that Germany’s magic “win every conflict through pure luck and the will of the universe” property wore off on Jan 1st 1962. The establishment of every nation thinks even if they join the OFN Germany will reinvade and win. Since they had been in a much better position in the 1940s, and had been allied with the US for years before Sealion, and the Germans still won.

And if you keep in mind that the German magic WAS still active in 1945. The Germans had invaded in 1943 and literally knocked the majority of US forces out of the hemisphere through pure luck, the US tried to reassemble an invasion force and resupply England in 1945 and got beat just as badly, and THEN President Kennedy makes his statement that they’re not going to attempt another massive reinvasion and focus on the Battle of the Atlantic (which the Germans have 100% won so far btw) on the European front instead. By this point the Germans have occupied all of the UK up to Carsile.

Then the Germans offer an agreement to the Generals and politicians fighting in the UK that if they betray Churchill’s government in Canada and agree to sign a ceasefire, the Germans will go for a more lenient peace treaty. Instead of RK Great Britian like originally planned, the Germans will allow a neutral Scotland and a Collaborationist England to form instead. Ofc they’re going to go for it.

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JackRyan555Organization of Free Nations•

I'm fine with Scotland being independent but there should be more unionist sympathy and it should be in the Unity Pak. It doesn't make sense for Germany to leave an OFN aligned power right at the entrance of the North Sea

2