Source
r/editors•
trojancourse

How do you get commercial representation?

Business Question

Hi fellow editors. I have been freelancing for a long time now - in commercial, documentary, and music video world. I am part of a post production collective which I kind of have representation through, but I was curious how others have attained representation with post production houses. I identify it as a way to kind of up the anty a bit in terms of my career, but I am struggling to find a way to break into any. Any info or tips would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

Posted Jan 3, 2022, 6:58 PM UTC

2636
BobZelin•

here is my first smart ass answer for 2022. Happy New Year everyone -

"I am the most qualified Adobe editor in the planet. Adobe actually hires me as a consultant to show them things that are necessary - how do I get commercial or feature film work" -

"I am the most qualified AVID editor in the planet. I am the equivalent of Apple's "train the trainer" - and I have created AVID's training program. How do I get hired for commercial or feature work" -

ANSWER - YOU DON'T.

You can be the BIGGEST MORON, with no ability to run Media Composer, with no ability to run Adobe Premiere, or Davinci Resolve or FCP X or anything else. But if you have started at the bottom, and met all the AD AGENCY CLIENTS as an assistant, and they LOVE YOU, becuase you hung out with them, got stoned with them, got them some weed, or into a cool club, but you SUCK as an editor - NOW, you get HIRED by ad agencies. Now you get work. Because you now have FRIENDS, even though the guys that are THE BEST, the "trainers", the most knowledgable persons in our industry - they DO NOT GET THE WORK (no different than the USC or UCLA Professors) - they DO NOT GET THE WORK - becuase they have not gotten the CONNECTIONS that it takes to get a job in our industry. Your qualifications are secondary - your contacts - your friends, the people that like you - are what gets you work (ok - if your dad owns the production company - then you get work too).

Everyone things that because they are great, they should be getting work. Well guess what - the worlds greatest guitar shredder is not getting work. The worlds greatest actor or actress is not getting work. It's the people that have made their CONNECTIONS that are going to get the work. How do you get these connections ? You GET IN. You work on a few jobs. You put your personality forward, to get these clients to LOVE YOU. You hang out with them. You talk about football, golf, music, art, whatever crap they are in to. You talk about their kids, their crazy wife. You get them to LOVE YOU. And even though you SUCK as an editor, they HIRE YOU, becuase they like you.

And once you get a few clients like this, who like you, and are bringing in a lot of money - NOW, you can go to an agency for representation - becuase they don't have to do much work to push you - becuase you work for ABC agency, you work for XYZ agency, and you have references, that say YOU ARE THE BEST (which translates to "you know where to find the best weed, and are SO MUCH fun to hang out with, and the commercial spot you just cut still came out great). And YOU now get all the work, while the guy that is 100 times better than you gets NO WORK.

Is that fair ? OF COURSE NOT - but that is life. That is how every business is.

I am waiting for the down votes.

Bob Zelin

26
inthedark77•

This is the only correct answer.

It’s literally the only way.

Sell your soul to the ad peeps as an assistant, do this for a few years, pick up a few edit tricks, pull A LOT of favours and eventually someone will want to work with your dumbass.

I speak from experience .

7
RRoundhouse•

It's not the only way. I only assisted once on a doc before I started editing for a top tier music video and commercial director. He liked my vibe and decided to take a chance on me.

9
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
BobZelin•

and are you now an established commercial editor, working for lots of ad agencies ?

Bob Zelin

-3
RRoundhouse•

Yes. However, I have better relationships with established directors than individual agencies.

3
RenderPlsFilm Editor / NYC / MC8, Pro CC & FCP X•

This is not the only correct answer. Your experience == the way the industry works. Seems like you just had some hard luck

4
Lion1905•

Side note: bob you don’t have to sign your comments on Reddit, we can see your username.

7
BobZelin•

I like signing my name - it drills my name into your head, so that you never forget who I am.

BOB ZELIN

8
RenderPlsFilm Editor / NYC / MC8, Pro CC & FCP X•

sounds like someone had a bad time trying to get on a roster… i feel bad for anyone who takes your advice

5
esboardnewb•

Great response, Bob. Clearly coming from an experienced place. As always, it's who you know (or get to know as it were). I spent many many years as an editor not really getting to know people or take almost any of the advice you offer above. I have 1000s of professional hours, maybe 10,000+, in NLEs (mostly MC). I can offline edit like a fucking pro in my sleep.

None of that meant shit when the company I was working folded and I had to try to find new work. No one gave a fuck that I can basically type to edit. No one cared about my reel, no one cared that I cut over 150eps of broadcast TV. I was insulated in my job for years and didn't branch out, didn't make connections, just worked, and that screwed me. I thought 'I'm a great editor, anyone can see that', I was wrong.

Happy ending kinda (in the making). After no job and a new kiddo and too many garbage freelance gigs, I was about to go to nursing school (no kidding). Then my brother suggested I write something and try to pursue making it on my own. That was 2 years ago and I'm now being paid to make this show (thank the the fucking gods!!!). It's been a long road and basically impossible to explain on Reddit at midnight. I will add one last thing, all my years of offline are not wasted, when I go to edit something for my show (sales tapes etc) you best believe that I do the finest damn work

4
Jobo162•

As far as the super good technical editors that are great at avid and premiere, commercial editing is a bit different and requires a lot of non-computer related skills. Pre covid usually you were in a room from 9am till whenever the agency feels like, cutting live with 3-10 people watching what you were doing every second of the day and yelling lots of ideas over each other expecting you to exact each one while still keeping them entertained with lighthearted banter. I had a revolution when I was younger that commercial editing is more about controlling and manipulating a room than actual editing. You need to be able to calm down people freaking out, take 9 ideas and try them all in 2 second, choose one and convince every person in the room their idea won. It's all speed and mind manipulation which a lot of great technical editors lack.

2
digitalmdsmooth•

Bob Zelin is a legend in the game. Great to see you're still at it Bob.

1
BobZelin•

young people don't like hearing about kissing ass. They want to believe that "just being good" is all it takes. I recall seeing and commenting on a post like this about 1 - 2 years ago, and this kid from the UK made this big stink (after my comments) that he was "picked from a University for a top broadcast station, just because of his talent, and is now working in broadcast without ever having to deal with any of this political crap". Of course, I just let it go, since in real life, unless his father is an executive at that station - that never happens.

The harsh reality of life is not fun.

Bob

1
newMike3400•

18 year old me liked drinking all night so I guess agency smoozing came natural to me. There’s a reason all the post houses are downtown in seedier areas.

56 year old me still has some of those clients (the ones who aren’t dead at least) and in some cases the kids and possibly grandkids of those clients… but the entertainment side of it all seems to be dying most places other than soho in London.

It’s gonna be a whole lot harder for the current generation to make contacts like we did in our day. It used to be acceptable to give a good client a 300 quid bottle of scotch off the back of a job now that would be considered bribery, back then it was just courtesy.

1
RRoundhouse•

I'm in the same space. Earlier this year I signed to a post house in LA and attained a spot on their roster. Basically this means they always have a 1st hold on me and will be actively looking to book me on jobs. If I want to work outside of them I simply have to bring a challenge to their attention and they'll release me if they can't book me.

So far it's been going well.

23
trojancourseOP•

How did you get connected with the post house?

6
RRoundhouse•

I used to work with their production manager years ago and they reached out back in September about joining their roster.

I hate to say it, but it is really all about who you know.

13
ticklehaterAds | Pr / Resolve / Avid if you make me•

To expand on your comment, people you come up with in various ways, whether it be film school, assist and apprentice work at posthouses, ad agency work, etc. will eventually build their own companies or become big shots at other companies. If they like you those people will call on and elevate you.

I don't want people to think it's necessarily about being rich or having a famous uncle or something (although it is for some people).

3
RRoundhouse•

I don't want people to think it's necessarily about being rich or having a famous uncle or something (although it is for some people).

Appreciate you expanding on this.

2
JonskMusic•

You have to bring big gigs to the table... or you have to have work that fills a gap in their roster, but if you're aiming for shops like RPS or Cosmo, Lost Planet, if you're asking here, it's not going to happen, and if your work is good enough (which isn't about skill, its about how big/high end/expensive your reel looks) then maybe you should just start your own edit shop.

Does your reel look like a bunch of dope grade A commercial spots? If not you may have to start assisting at a shop. But if you're gonna do that... ask yourself.. is your real goal to edit commercial? Or scripted? In which case, go assist on scripted shows.

10
RRoundhouse•

This exactly. Post houses only care about what work you're going to bring to the table, meaning what directors or CDs are going to go through them to get to you.

6
mad_king_soup•

I’m only speaking about NYC, but that’s never been the case here. Post houses want you for THEIR clients, not past clients you’ve had. If I have a repeat commercial client why would I want a post house taking a cut if they’re not adding any value?

1
RenderPlsFilm Editor / NYC / MC8, Pro CC & FCP X•

This is woefully incorrect. Every post house worth noting in NYC only will put you on the roster for 2 reasons to make sure you can bill enough to cover your draw. Either you sign with them and bring your own clients (which…everyone who’s an anyone does) OR if you’re a no one you work at a post house on their shop jobs to build your reel and gain creative connections.

6
newMike3400•

This guy knows how it works. I’ve been on both sides as an editor and large post house owner (biggest one had 130 permanent staff). Offline editorial was always a loss leader, I paid star editors very very well, way beyond what the avid suite earned but we only editing ads we finished. We made our money on the flame vfx, Henry finishing and all the add ons, telecine, cg, after effects, Roto etc etc

We also paid the flame guys (including me) a ton of money as flame made so much cash and clients came as much for the flame guys as the offline people.

Later the big draw card became the colourist and then we had to pay them a ton of money too but even with three areas earning excessive pay rates it was ok as we made as much as all the suites combined in dubs - before satellite and then net delivery we’d make around 2000 release dubs a week for all the stations of every version of every ad we finished. Each roll of one inch cost 60 bucks or so and we charged 120 a deliverable master. Even with mistakes and bad dubs and other shrinkage such as vtr maintenance,head replacements and staff the machine room was making about 4 million a year when we sold the company.

2
RRoundhouse•

If I have a repeat commercial client why would I want a post house taking a cut if they’re not adding any value?

They're not taking a cut of your day rate. The reason they want your clients is to then get them to do any grading or VFX work in the same house, or a house they are partnered with.

3
mad_king_soup•

What pays for the edit room I’m working in?

1
trojancourseOP•

Good point

1
vyllek•

You also have to consider that commercial work just isn't as prevalent these days. Ad agencies have been going through an identity crisis since google/amazon/etc have been gobbling up the ad dollars. Lots of competition for less work. Talk to post house producers and get their perspective.

I have worked for and owned small AICE editorial boutique shops. I feel I have a greater advantage to work as an independent now with all the relationships I have built. Especially in a Covid world. Most of my work is remote. Has been for years. They just want a good editor they can trust.

3
CastorTroyMcClure•

This thread from a few years ago is relevant:

https://www.reddit.com/r/editors/comments/axfvit/how_to_get_into_commercial_post_house/

For most of the big commercial post houses (like any in the AICE), you need to already be a big shot commercial editor (for another to approach you and offer a better deal) or be a big Film editor looking to branch into commercials.
Otherwise, it's mostly staff assistants who have stuck it out long enough to become editors.

1
Muffin_Top_420•

It's definitely a challenging road; the first thing you should do is identify the post houses in your general area and make note of their contact information (as well as their EP/Managing Partner - you definitely don't want to cold contact them only to reach the receptionist).

Before you reach out you should do a number of things: ensure your commercial reel is as up to date as possible. Be able to accurately quote (and maybe show) your annual billings. Have a list of previous clients (ad agencies, direct to client etc.), and speak to your relationships with them (are they repeat clients, was a project particularly note-worthy etc.).

While I can't speak for ALL commercial post houses, I do know that right now, while things are extremely busy, most shops aren't looking to add rostered editors unless they are a draw unto themselves. By that I mean they'll undoubtedly want you to come in with existing relationships that can be used to generate work. While most post houses do employee reps to help generate leads, they equally count on their editors to create opportunities.

So try cold contacting - again, try to reach as senior a person as you can - and be prepared with any and all information that can make you seem desirable to them. Unfortunately cold calling is much more successful when looking to get into these companies in an entry level or AE position. A better option, but really dependent on location, is to network at any industry specific events you can find. Obviously a lot of those have gone virtual, but in New York (and I assume L.A., Chicago etc.) we have AICP events that are very specific to editorial. Check out their site as that might generate some ideas for you as well.

1
c0rruptioN✂ ✂ Premiere - Toronto ✂ ✂•

I don't think it's something that typically happens a lot in commercial post, at least in my city. Although, our post house has hired and rep'd 2 out of town freelancers in the past year. They would probably look for more too.

Other the flip side, where are you that you can't get hired into a post house or agency?

1