Source
r/discgolf•
GoldLineEverything

Throwing putters is a great way to learn form. Once you've got that down you should do the opposite. Fast and overstable on short holes, so you really master angle control.

Discussion

Throwing putters is a great way to work on form, and I love throwing putters. The Envy is my favorite disc by far, and I don't see that changing. This post is not about throwing putters.

There does come a point where you know how to throw that straight putter shot and can hit your line confidently 9/10 times. On some holes a neutral flying putter will not punish you for missing your angle, because they don't move much to either side in the air compared to faster discs. Get the distance right, and you'll still have a putt.

I find that by doing the dumb thing and throwing fast, overstable drivers on holes where something slower or more neutral is the best way to go really teaches you a lot about angle control.

I have been playing rounds with only two discs during the winter. Usually an Envy and a Wraith/Felon, because this is all I really need on my local course. I naturally double drive everything, but this means that I end up throwing a disc that doesn't really suit the hole half the time.

Having to get creative with my lines has been really fun, and throwing different lines to what I normally throw has even landed me a few sweet aces. There's something really rewarding about trying to get a Felon to fly straight on a hole where a beat Envy is definitely the play. Instead of a straight flight with gentle fade through the middle of the gap I have to flex the disc and really use the entire width of the fairway. It's harder to control, but the dump and dive can be really useful to ace certain holes. It definitely develops control over both angle and armspeed.

Throwing laserbeams with putters is satisfying, but so is throwing a needlessly difficult shot with a disc that doesn't suit the hole and still executing it to perfection!

Perhaps the beginners throwing Destroyers 200 ft were right all along?

Maybe I should get a Tilt?

Posted Feb 3, 2022, 7:40 PM UTC

6548
materialisticBUCKUncle Reko's alt•

Just about any disc can fit any hole if you throw it right!

But for real, there are a million ways to skin a cat in this sport so I don't disagree with the statement but it certainly takes the kind of player that is throwing a colossus on a 190' hole with the intent to learn rather than a player that's just doing it because they don't know better (speaking from experience)

34
GoldLineEverythingOPBlue discs fly better•

I've always preferred throwing on a slight hyzer and letting the disc turn over rather than releasing on anhyzer. I have a hard time getting the disc to go in the right direction even if i hit the angle I want, so throwing more flexshots is a good way of working on that.

Some holes are also harder to ace when throwing the "smart" shot, but a nose-up flex with a driver can have that really sharp late fade that crashes around a corner and into the basket. Extra glide also helps with keeping the disc high enough.

5
THEgabberdore•

If you want to actually learn angle control throw flippy things. Or in actuality, throw whatever you want on whatever hole, we're both hitting first available anyway

17
hydro_wonkHey, you got any P3s?•

IMO the fastest way to develop a reliable sidearm is to learn to control the flippy stuff and not just jump to the beefy OS. If you get good at clean release on the flippies and they don't just burn, it develops a good forehand.

4
FatalFirecrotch•

IMO, under stable is the way to learn both shots. I think the putter advice is okay for backhands, but they are so forgiving that I think they can also mask some release issues.

2
GoldLineEverythingOPBlue discs fly better•

Flippy also works, I've just happened to bring the overstable stuff lately.

The point is to throw something that you have to release on an exaggerated angle instead of something fairly neutral on a slight angle. Exaggerated angles are harder to hit imo, and "normal" lines feel relatively easy afterwards.

2
THEgabberdore•

Why not just get really good and consistent with the normal angles? That's what you're going to use in a competitive round.

3
GoldLineEverythingOPBlue discs fly better•

Because I already am. Most of the lines on the course are ~60 meters flat to hyzer.

Believe it or not, you can play one course and practice skills meant for another course. If you play the same course for 100 rounds a year throwing the same lines gets stale and boring.

1
Mattjm24•

I agree, but perhaps for a different reason. I saw a post where a guy did some tests and basically, the result is that hyzers are more accurate because they are more forgiving if you miss your angle. For example, take a putter and take a firebird on a 200ft hole. Line up a straight putter shot and a spike hyzer for the firebird. Now throw both shots. Let's say you miss your angle by going 5 degrees too much anhyzer on each shot. The putter will flip and end up maybe 40 feet away. The firebird will simply hyzer a tiny bit less and end up maybe 20 ft away instead of parked.

That's why I started throwing my Axiom Fireball (their version of a Firebird) on holes of that length, and why I throw hyzers whenever I can (also why pros do). Once I learned where to aim it for the hyzer angle, I really did see a difference in how much more forgiving it is.

11
GoldLineEverythingOPBlue discs fly better•

True, but I'm not talking about hyzers in an open field. I wanna learn to manipulate overstable discs on tight flexlines. Kinda like Nikko, although I don't like the guy.

Throwing a putter through a straight 200 ft tunnel is way easier than flexing a driver through the same tunnel and trying to finish straight/control the skip.

6
Mattjm24•

Fair enough.

3
GoldLineEverythingOPBlue discs fly better•

But I definitely agree with what you're saying about hyzers being the most consistent shot. That's why we see the big arms bomb spike hyzers and playing lawn darts.

7
Mattjm24•

Exactly. It's a huge advantage.

2
Sure-Work3285•

You both overlooked one key thing, the natural release of players. I don't have any stats on this (besides knowing hyzer release would be the most common for those with an Ultimate background) but I know some would have natural (or tendency) to throw anny, while some would do the same but on hyzer etc.

If you throw a disc on your natural angle, it will be more consistent and less prone to missing its line then on another angle.

1
THEgabberdore•

I don't see the point of doing this. Why not just get really consistent at throwing a putter down that same tunnel. You're practicing a shot you would never throw in a tournament so why practice it?

3
GoldLineEverythingOPBlue discs fly better•

Because I already am really consistent with my putters, and the local course gets boring unless you change it up.

Throwing the harder lines isn't meant to help me score better on this course, because I've already madtered it. Instead it will make me better in general by helping me work on my weaknesses.

1
FatalFirecrotch•

and why I throw hyzers whenever I can (also why pros do).

Paul and Simon did a video together and he actually massively disagreed with this and watching more pros they really don’t do this anymore. They tend to throw pretty straight maybe with some slight hyper when the shot is within a couple hundred feet.

2
Mattjm24•

I wish I could find the post I was referring to, because it wasn't a matter of opinion. It was a fact: the more hyzer angle you put the disc on, the closer it will land to the target (assuming your shot was on target from the beginning). The more anhyzer angle was introduced, the further away the discs got.

1
FatalFirecrotch•

There is this thing called flat. The problem with hyzer is that discs can do weird things when landing on an angle.

1
DGWInk•

get a tilt 100% recommend, its a hoot

9
GoldLineEverythingOPBlue discs fly better•

Need to find me a blue Meta one though

6
DGWInk•

Purple meta burst in my bag

2
matuar•

If you find a wrong colored meta tilt pm me, I'll trade you my blue one

2
rhcamp01•

I’ll disagree and say that understable discs that are appropriate for a shot would be a better option. This is especially true if doing both forehand and backhand. With that said, have fun and do you. I’m not the biggest putter only round person either though. I think a neutral/US mid exposes form issues much better.

4
GoldLineEverythingOPBlue discs fly better•

Understable definitely works too! As long as it forces you to throw at a more exaggerated angle and different armspeed compared to what you usually do. I really should bust out my River for forehands again lol.

4
rhcamp01•

100% it will show flaws in forehand form!!

5
[deleted]•

[deleted]

4
GoldLineEverythingOPBlue discs fly better•

I do get great enjoyment from my Justices, don't think I'll be replacing them though.

1
Key-County6952•

The nikko anvils are basically a justice anyways

1
slamang•

Honestly, the point of throwing putters is so you have better control. Imo it translates best to understable discs, because people have the hardest time controlling them. Overstable shots are the easiest and fastest shot to learn for disc golfers in my experience. OS discs are good for improving lines for skip shots though.

2
GoldLineEverythingOPBlue discs fly better•

If I'm trying to score well I'm definitely throwing a putter, because they're easier to control. The faster you go the more difficult it becomes to control the disc, unless you're just throwing boring hyzers.

I'm not saying you should throw fast discs on short holes to score well, I'm saying learning to do that is challenging and builds control.

2
TheDooDooManCometh•

Good advice. The angle which is most difficult for me to control is the nose angle, and putters just don't give good feedback on that. A fairway driver is really the best disc to work on nose angle with IMO. Maybe something faster than that for people with really strong arms.

1
GoldLineEverythingOPBlue discs fly better•

This is true. Putters are forgiving and don't care as much about nose angle as drivers do.

It's commonly said that drivers can mask bad form (when you rip everything over on an anhyzer) but it also shows you if you're throwing nose up or not.

3
areyow•

It’s like the challenge to see how well you do with one disc and a putter. Learning everything you can do with a disc just helps your mastery!

1
GoldLineEverythingOPBlue discs fly better•

Exactly. It's not meant to lower your score, because to do that you obviously want discs that suit the holes. Making it harder teaches you new things.

1
SaturdayCartoons•

I like it. Great idea. I’ve finally started throwing putters and mid-ranges when needed, but still like using overstable drivers for approach shots, when I need the disc to fade hard and stick the landing. Sometimes it’s just easier

1
Ok_Artichoke_9293•

I don't really do what you are describing, but one of my favorite things to do is find a hole that I can reach with a putter or pick a spot in the fairway 150-200 feet out on a longer hole and empty my bag.

1
What_The_Chuck_Frolf•

I sort of follow your advice. When I play my local 9 hole course my rule is I can’t use the same disc to tee off on a hole for the back nine. I also like creating a few mandos to force new lines.

1
lthrdog73Shaun Watkins - Innova Team Ambassador•

Why not fast and understable with a hyzer flip? Or a forehand roller for that matter? There are plenty of shots to work on to enhance your game. Hopefully you're not practicing all your new lines with your "double drives" while others are waiting behind you. Other than that there is no one way to "master" angle control other than practice.

1
GoldLineEverythingOPBlue discs fly better•

Not all courses allow rollers, but super understable also works.

I play quick, and I catch up to people quite often even if I'm throwing 3-4 drives a hole.

2
randydp39Pro•

Proxy is better than envy

-4
GoldLineEverythingOPBlue discs fly better•

Fake news.

A beat Envy can do everything a Proxy can do.

A Proxy will never fly like a new Envy.

This makes the Envy more versatile, and ideal for cycling.

7
dronerdgMVP/Kasta/Discmania•

It takes so long to beat in a envy though. I have had my main workhorse proton for like 8 months, it's beat to crap and still actually flies stable. I finally just put in a soft electron proxy

3
Goobyloob•

Just get an electron envy. They really don’t take long to beat in. That proton envy might never beat in to be honest

4
slamang•

I don't really notice my premium plastic MVP putters changing in flight all that much. Probably because I don't bang them up much. I do love both the envy and proxy though.

2
flic_my_bic•

Truth. I bagged a Proxy until my first Envy (neutron 172g) beat in to perfection. Proxy beat in to useless about the same time... so just got newer and/or firmer plastic Envy's. Now I bag 3x Envy's, the OG beat one is more of a putting putter when the wind is up in CO's open courses and I don't want to putt with something floatier. A used-but-serviceable Plasma Envy (169g) for most approaches. A basically new Proton Envy (175g) for when I don't quite want the mid-range yet, but just want a full power approach. Don't see myself getting another Proxy I guess, that beat Envy is just too juicy.

2
GoldLineEverythingOPBlue discs fly better•

Those old Plasmas turn over so nice once they're seasoned!

2