Anyone else feeling frustrated by their salary?

I guess I just need to rant to people who understand. I’m on a training grant so I get what the NIH says I get. I was so hopeful that they would increase the minimums again this year, but it looks like that’s not going to happen. My heating bill is more than double what it was last year, food costs are through the roof, my first baby is coming in a couple of months, and the icing on the cake (or maybe the straw that broke the camel’s back?) - I got an epic flat tire on my way to work this morning, so an unexpected car repair bill on top of everything else.

I feel like I’m too old to be this broke, and almost the entirety of my postdoc has been during COVID, so I’m not even getting the full experience. I’ll probably look for a new job after my (partially unpaid) maternity leave ends, even though I really would like to stay in my current position (and am funded for at least another year). Meanwhile, everything things I’m making bank because “you’re a doctor!”

Posted Feb 26, 2022, 1:01 AM UTC

3519
00_nothing•

52+k a year for 12+ hours/day is fucking trash. I hate the system.

18
workingtheories•

You aren't allowed to complain until you win the Nobel prize. Otherwise, you won't have any leverage over the next generation. It's not coercive, you're free to leave at any time and work on whatever you want to work on/however much you want to work. If you don't do what they are doing though, you won't get another job. The more niche your job becomes, the more vague and nonsensical the rejection letters. Am I under-qualified? overqualified? Did I not show the PI/group enough deference? Did I not show the field enough deference? Or, just the normal reason: not enough papers. How do you publish these? They won't tell you. No, it's too complicated still and all your ideas are unpublishable garbage (until we need them), just do this next thing for us, and for sure you'll be a fifth author on our next masterpiece.

Don't be expected to be rewarded for taking a single risk until you have full tenure. Oh, the person/group you're working for turns out to not be compatible? Too bad, that time is measured against you. These grants are only for the freshest, luckiest faces.

You did your postdoc during a pandemic? Too bad, so sad. Here's basically a $25 gift card, and you can attend a "listening session" where you can voice your concerns. Oh, not concerns about labor protections or cost of living, and also we're not going to do anything about these things. We won't even write that stuff down. No, the only stuff that will get recorded in these sessions is stuff we might do something about later, if you somehow win the Nobel prize.

12
microglialover•

I moved to industry 6 months ago and I will NEVER go back to academia. The system is broken. It is basically a cult. Don’t believe in first authorships, don’t believe you need to do that extra experiment to publish, just try to get out.

17
mwkr•

Well put, it is a sick cult. People are willing to do anything to be the first author. That sucks; that is not science. Most of the papers I read are trash, too.

5
Dylanthrope•

Yes you are correct it is a living hell. Twice the hours of an industry job and half the pay. Usually during the exact time in a persons' life when they might be starting a family.

12
riricide•

I like my lab a lot, but it doesn't make up for the terrible pay scale. I'm now realizing just how poor I was in grad school lol. Kinda stings much more because suddenly saving for retirement is a thing I have to start worrying about. Fortunately my postdoc is preparing me to pivot to a high-paying field, so I'm hopeful. I am very lucky to have had a financial safety net because of parents and siblings who are very well off - I can't imagine the stress of going through a period of low pay or unexpected bills without knowing that there is support if I need it.

8
RedPanda5150•

Yeah, when I was finishing my PhD my advisor tried telling me that he didn't want to pay me during my last semester, because in his view I could just move back in with my parents and write. My parents are blue collar folks scraping just enough to get by, and I for sure don't work if I'm not getting paid. It all worked out in the end - I jumped to industry after doing a postdoc and my raise alone this year was about the same as my total stipend in grad school - but yes, academia is hell if you don't have wealthy family to fall back on.

*collar not color - was not raised by Smurfs :)

6
junkmeister9•

Careful with your future jobs. NIH training fellowships have some weird rules about repayment if you don’t meet the terms of the funding after the funding period.

I got a job outside of academia recently after doing a postdoc. The salary bump was basically double what I was making in academia “at maximum” salary for a postdoc. My work life balance is a good bit better now, and I can’t see myself ever going back into academia.

6
NotSomeTokenBunnyOP•

This is a really important point! I’ve actually had a few people DM me about training grants since I’ve mentioned it in a few random posts, so if you’re interested in being on a training grant, you should know that there are string attached. The complete document is here, but basically, you can’t just bail out after a year because you’re agreeing that your first year of funding will be “matched” by a second year of related work. So if you’re on a 2 year contract and have already done your two years, you should be good, but if you’ve been on a training grant for 18 months and decide to quit to go start a cat cafe, you still owe them 6 months of sciencing. Fortunately, I’m out of my repayment period entirely, but this is actually really important for people who might be considering leaving a postdoc early. Be aware of sneaky repayment agreements!

6
GoldyIronic•

A fellowship is for 18 months. Additional 6 months past the fellowship do not have to be in academia but can be in biotech industry, e.g research scientist, right?

1
NotSomeTokenBunnyOP•

Yes, as long as it is teaching or research, that should count!

1
magnetic-nebula•

For anyone reading this who is worried, look into national lab postdocs. They pay MUCH better and often lead to staff scientist jobs at a national lab which also pays better than academia

6
drlegs30•

Just a caveat - this isn't true in the UK or spain

3
Bzrs•

I second this. I know NIH postdocs who make in the $70ks and $80ks.

The environment matters a lot, too. I interviewed for and managed to get industry and government offers in the past year that offered six figure salaries, but had questionable environment and not much opportunity for independence. I chose to stay making $40k less because I have a great PI who funds my science (buys whatever I want) and I get to work on my own projects.

Money counts for a lot, and if you're chronically financially stressed then that's not sustainable. But making more money also can change a lot about your work environment.

2
mwkr•

Yeah. I was. Then I moved to industry one and half years ago. I even bought a house after a year of working in the Boston Metropolitan Area (not cheap at all). I am sorry, but I understand the importance of academia (I did postdoc for four years in the US trying to make it), but it is a FUCKING SCAM. Moving away was the best financial decision in my fucking lifetime.

4
aste87•

Whatever you decide to do, make the decision that is best for you and your family.

I quit my postdoc and academia when it became clear that childcare was going to be like 80-90% of my take home pay—I would literally be putting my child in daycare for the privilege of working (obviously this wouldn’t be the literal case everywhere). It just did not make sense for me.

To answer your question: I definitely was feeling frustrated by the salary, and quitting was the best choice in my case. I sometimes wonder if I didn’t have a kid if I would have just accepted the circumstances and continued being a postdoc (still would have been a poor choice for me to continue).

3
GoldyIronic•

Totally. I can tell that quite some of my smartest and most successful peers went to industry because of the money. Just look out for yourself and your family.

3
ywpark•

I was driving around town few weeks back and saw signages for UPS drivers with hourly pay greater than what I was making (50k which is about $28/hr). Lately, I have been wondering a lot about whether 5 years of PhD and 4 years of postdoc had been a total waste of time.

3
likerice•

100%. Academia is such a bubble though that I am not sure many postdocs realize how poor their compensation really is. Undergrad engineering majors have starting salaries that are higher than most postdocs, it's crazy. My advice is to go for it if you want, I loved doing research, but don't spend too much time as a postdoc. Give it a year or two then find a real job.

2
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