Would love to hear from Swashbucklers

More speed, more HP, less reliance on flat footed conditions along with some fun support skills while being able to dish massive damage in short time.

The greatest advice I can give is to not always do your finisher; just do it if you can expect to regain panache quickly. Having the panache can be worth more sometimes and it does still make you do some bonus damage.

And ofc full martial proficiency. Negative is that you can't deal precision damage with most ranged weapons and thrown requires a feat.

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u/Zealous-Vigilante gave some great mechanical comments on what makes them good, so I'll comment roleplay wise what sets them apart.

Swashbucklers have flair. They have style and they literally gain panache through how they interact with the world. They stride confidently across the battlefield unleashing their unique style of combat on their foes and striking forcefully when the opportune moment arises. They really get to be what it means to be a daring, dashing combatant like in Three Musketeers or some of the older adventure novels.

You can emulate this roleplay with a rogue, but I think Swashbuckler captures this concept the best out of the two. My gymnast swashbuckler would flip weaker foes over while sprinting to take on the boss, only to throw them in a headlock and stab them through the gut while shouting various bastardizations of Inigo Montoya lines. It's a lot of fun to really lean into and get some whimsy and fun into a game.

I made a fencer for a level 9-11 stretch of a game.

Positioning is super easy due to high speed and tumbling.

Damage was on par with other melee types of you use your finisher every round, but then you get locked into rotations to get panache back. Without a finisher it's not great, but it's enough.

What was really great about my swashbuckler was my support. I got a TON of use out of Guardian's Deflection. I also took Attack of Opportunity and that gave me a lot of stickiness. I was also able to get stuff like Doublespeak with the stylish tricks ability so I had a lot of utility outside fights too by leaning into deception skill feats.

We have a swashbuckler at the table (level 12). I feel like the rogue out-performs in combat.
Both the rogue and swashbucker struggled in the beginning, but once the rogue gets the feat to be 'flanking' as long as an ally is threatening makes damage reliable.

My frustration with the swashbuckler is that generating panache takes an action that is not guaranteed to succeed. The passive benefits of having Panace are good, but not good enough to elevate it to the rest of the martial classes.

I will never play a swashbuckler. I'd go rogue every time.

Editorial: If you have an action tax it should just work. Stances - spend the action to enter a stance it works. Spellstrike - spend the action to recharge spell strike, ready to spellstrike again.

I played a Battledancer and loved it. Leading Dance is one of my favorite feats in the game. I thought that particular style was really nice because it was relatively easy to get Panache by targeting Will or Reflex DC's as appropriate. When the dice were with me, the damage felt really solid.

My favorite parts of the class were making decisions around when to try to get and use Panache. A failed Panache roll could really change your plans for the turn. The other great part was when you got a big crit with a finisher, the damage felt awesome. Definitely more bursty than the rogue, but not as high damage overall in my experience.

As far as skills go, that was the biggest setback from the Rogue. That said, I had high acrobatics, performance, and diplomacy which made it feel like I usually had cool stuff to do in and out of combat. I was really lacking in intelligence skills, but that felt very on brand for a reckless Swashbuckler.

Both Rogues and Swashbucklers are awesome. You really can't choose wrong.

Kobolds are squishy so watch out for your hp pool. Rogue are squishy. That's recipe for disaster. Still, rogue can be incredibly fun since they are jack of all trades with high damage capabilities. You rely on flat footed condition to deal damage but flat footed is somewhat easy to keep and has other uses aside from your finisher. Rogue also have lots of skills even with low intelligence so it's less MAD. Most swashbuckler want some CHA so even without many skills you can easily be the face of the group. With high dexterity you probably want stealth and thievery too so out of combat both are great option. Swashbucklers are a martial class, so they have medium armour and martial weapon, plus decent hp. Problem is, panache is unreliable and has pretty much no use outside of you doing finishers. You can still deal damage without doing finishers but your damage output is pretty low compared to any other martial class that way. I'd say rogues are more universal, while as swashbuckler you'd want at least another martial class like a champion, a fighter or a ranger in the party.

So, I've just had a single session with this character, but I'm loving it. I think Swashbucklers have so much flavor built into them that's almost impossible to build a boring one. Now, flavor is something that the player can add it by themselves, but it helps when every class feat is amazing.

I like building somewhat unconventional character, so I'm going for a two-handed weapon (Spiked Chain) Orc Braggart Swashbuckler. I'm only at level one and I feel like I have so many options every turn, and One for All is a great feat to give bonus to the rest of your party, specially if there's a heavy hitting martial.

EDIT: Also, last session I managed to do an absurd amount of damage on a crit confident finisher against a boss, 36 damage at level one is not shabby at all.

I was running a Swashbuckler for book 1 of Extinction Curse, and my GM let me rebuild her into a Gunslinger. I wasn't a huge fan of playing that class. It was too close to Rogue, but the lower number of skills felt like a major weakness, and missing the roll to do the thing to regain Panache just feels really bad.

Not a Swashbuckler, but I've done a lot of analyzing both classes and have a Rogue in my game as well as a Swashbuckler NPC. Here are the pros and cons of the class, from my perspective:

Pros:

• To start, 10 HP/level is a significant benefit for a melee fighter, while Rogue only gets 8.
• The movement speed from Panache eventually reaches a massive value, equal to Monk's movement speed bonus.
• Acquiring Panache is similar to Rogue setting up Flat-Footed on an enemy, but can be held for much longer and used at a more opportune time. This includes against a different enemy than the one you interacted with to get Panache; this is especially relevant against boss monsters with minions, as you can use the little guys for easy Panache, then dump your extra damage on the big bad.
• Panache gives you a bit of extra damage just for possessing it, so you don't necessarily HAVE to use a Finisher right away to benefit from it.
• Swashbucklers have proficiency with all martial weapons, while Rogues only have a very small list of martial weapons (Unless your GM is like me and gives Rogues martial proficiency)
• Swashbuckler has a number of feats that can grant Panache in different ways, even without directly interacting with enemies. One For All in particular is fantastic because it allows you to aid allies at a range using Diplomacy, and synergizes very well with any feat that enhances the Aid activity. This also means that they can often generate Panache at a range, while it's very hard to impose Flat-Footed at range.
• Panache can be used in a variety of ways with different Finisher moves. The very first one you get, Confident Finisher, can deal a pretty hefty amount of damage even if it misses.

Cons:

• While Rogue has to set up the Flat-Footed condition on enemies, this can be done much easier than acquiring Panache in most cases. If the Rogue is in melee, they only need to flank their target to meet their requirements, and they eventually get feats that eliminate the need for Flat-Footed entirely. Furthermore, Flat-Footed inherently makes their attacks easier to land as well. (Not really a con, but a huge pro for Rogue)
• A Rogue's sneak attack can be done multiple times in a round. Every time they land an attack with their eligible weapons against a Flat-Footed foe, they deal a big chunk of precision damage. This means they deal significantly more damage overall than a Swashbuckler in most situations, as a Swashbuckler is unable to use ANY attack action after a Finisher in the same round.
• Swashbuckler cannot apply their precise strike damage with ranged weapons. There's a feat to allow the use of thrown weapons instead, but the range on these is quite a bit shorter than a bow, and they do much less damage as well.
• Swashbuckler's Styles generally confer much smaller benefits than a Rogue's Rackets do. I would also strongly recommend avoiding Gymnast, as those combat maneuvers have the Attack trait, making it harder to land follow-up attacks after generating Panache.
• As a newer class, Swashbuckler has a lot fewer class feats to choose from, which makes their builds less varied than the original 12 classes as a consequence.

Overall:

I like Rogue a lot better personally, but can definitely see the appeal of Swashbuckler. Pick Rogue if you want to deal the most damage or if you want to fight at range, and pick Swashbuckler if you want to be a more durable melee fighter with more freedom when choosing targets in combat.

It's great, I took out 3 manticores in 3 turns to save an npc we dragged along with us while the rest of the party went to fight the dungeon boss, granted it was several lucky rolls back to back but it was amazing

I haven’t played a rogue but I thought the play style in itself for a swashbuckler just looked fun, finding different ways to gain panache then deciding when to spend it. I also think it just fits my characters personality of trying to be flashy and always trying to look better than everyone else.

I litterally just had a rogue and now have a swash after retired/died.

A rogue is much better at sneaking and overall skills. My party was only 3 and we were lacking in the skills department and that helped..ALOT.

Swash is way more battle durable and flat-footed isn't necessary to pump damage.

My RP is also different. I made my rogue more of a face and skill monkey. He could talk to anyone, lie, intimidate, be diplomatic. He was more suave when it came to cha. My swash is way more intimidating, over the top, and full of excitement.

I absolutely leaned into the whole idea of fearless bravado and it was a blast.

Swashbuckler were fun for combat maneuverability (one gets panache for the "tumble through" action), as well as gacing some good all-round CC skills, durability and damage output. Outside, they do well with charisma skills.

Being the willing bait in basically every encounter definitely comes with healt risks, but my swashbuckler always survived (while taking a beating) but also gave as good as they got.

I have a Kobold swashy. I haven't played it much, but it is fun to play. Slightly underwhelming in terms of power, but can be very synergistic with other melee characters.

Swashbuckler can better at buffing and debuffing than rogues are, have more HP and AC, and can better ranged fighters.

Rogues are better at raw damage and have more high-proficiency skills. They can also get flat-footed very easily.

I had a Fencer from level 1-5 in my game. She didn't do awful but not particularly well either. Especially against bosses because you can go for 6 wasted actions trying to get Panache.

In my case what didn't help was that her pattern was : 1-Get Panache 2-Do Finisher 3-Repeat

I tried and tried to explain that Finishers are something you should do only if you expect to gain Panache easily or the battle is almost over but the player didn't listen.

Also maybe it's just me but monsters often have high perception so if I had to play a Swashbuckler, I would select a different type than Fencer.

Swashbucklers allow for kinda weird builds. For example, many racial unarmed attacks are finesse weapons, which mean they are actually somewhat considerable to use as a swashbuckler, while generally an underpowered feat tax otherwise

Go Beastkin or Kitsune or Anandi and run around the battlefield at lightning speed with your neat racial attacks. Full on wolf spider mode baby

Rogue feels very 'pragmatic' and rely more on teamwork. You set up your damage bonuses (Sneak Attack) from sheer tactical advantages, like waiting for allies to trip/grapple, or hiding and striking from concealed places. They've got less raw upfront damage early on, and feel to me like they're about capitalising on openings allies make, and using those advantages to break through tough defences. They're also ridiculously skilled and get a skill boost and skill feat at every single level. That's CRAZY good, so you can turn them into combat medics, demoralising machines, whatever floats your boat.

Swashbuckler are flashier of course, but they also feel more like a martial who actually makes those openings - throwing out Demoralises/Bon Mots, Trips, etc. Obviously a Rogue can do it too, but Swashbucklers are better-equipped to whip around the frontlines and get all that done quickly and safely. They're still excellent damage-dealers themselves but they shine best when they're taking plenty of non-attack actions.