[2604] Charlie and Sian, or a Letter to a Judge

A few questions I have:

  • Does the framing device (a letter to a judge) work for you?
  • Did the piece feel real, authentic, and believable?
  • Did you find the narrator's voice to be a distinct one? And did the voice work for you? Did it feel inconsistent in some aspects?
  • Overall thoughts/impressions?

Also, I appreciate that, due to my taking a few grammatical liberties to serve the narrator's voice, grammatical issues and intention may be difficult to discern here. So I guess my request is that, if encountered, you instead point out places where the grammar in the piece seems not to be sticking to its own conventions. Hope that makes sense. Also, I'll add that I want to stick to my decision of using only commas and full stops.

Thanks to anyone who gives this a read.

Charlie and Sian, or a Letter to a Judge.

Critique one* & critique two.

*To the mods: I'm using a leftover 295 words from my critique of this piece (1991 words) which I used for a piece of mine (1696) I have since deleted. I feel like I'm pushing it a bit here so just wanted to add a note in case.

Posted Mar 19, 2022, 2:31 AM UTC · edited

712
boagler•

Hey noekD.

Having read this I'm sad to say I don't know your writing too well. I know your username, but browsing your history, I haven't often read anything you've posted here. I say I'm sad because I enjoyed this and wish I'd seen more of you previous work. I'll keep an eye out in the future.

I'm not writing this for points but because I quite liked what I read, so it's going to be short. I won't give it compliments because I thought it was good enough not to need them. For me it only needs a bit of trimming and tightening.

Firstly, I don't think you need the 'letter to a judge' framing device. The story holds itself up on its own. With that in mind I think you can cut a little off the ending. I think the story should end on the line "The week after's when I cracked her head open." You don't need to say nothing's changed; you're forcing epiphany or poignancy on the reader. And the rest is addressed to the judge which I think you don't need.

Other than that, my only major qualm is that the voice comes on a little too thick for my liking. Particularly the use of "you know" and "all" as in all exhausted and all because. I like the voice but I think you're trying too hard to make sure we notice it. Just let the man speak.

For me the story was powerful because while I didn't expect the narrator to be dangerous initially, I also wasn't surprised when he turned out to be. I also like your portrayal of their working-class relationship, using details which aren't cliche, like the light bulb needing to be changed, the smell of bleach, or the aspiration of going on a cruise. I like how the narrator works himself up for his big redemptive moment but immediately flops when Sian comes home while he's in the bathroom (neatly illustrating that he would use literally any excuse and was never really committed).

I'm going to add some line edits to the document for you to consider as well.

Cheers, thanks for sharing.

EDIT: I got halfway through the doc because I'm falling asleep. Might come back later... zzz...

3
noekDOP•

Thank you very much for your kind words! I really do appreciate it.

Firstly, I don't think you need the 'letter to a judge' framing device. The story holds itself up on its own

I did consider - a fair few times - whether or not the framing device was necessary. Ultimately, I do think it adds some extra layers and complexity to the piece so think I will stick with my decision to use it.

Apart from that, I agree with everything else you said. Great suggestions. And I also really appreciate that you took the time to articulate what worked for you here. Thank you again.

1
bartosio•

#Overall impressions

I think the overall it is a solid story with a few gaps. The main character is believable, and I think that your representation of depression from a man that doesn't fully understand it is particularly noteworthy. The only thing I would say about the literary device is that in most letters the sender explains why they are writing the letter. In your version, the man just goes into describing his relationship with his girlfriend. I think adding a paragraph where he explains that he doesn't really know why he is writing this, despite the evidence, and that he just wants to explain his side of thing. Not only would this be proper for the format, but it would also serve as a nice hook. As it stands when we start reading we don't know what happened, if the judge is his friend, or he committed a crime. I do realise that you intended to make the final revelation shocking, and I think you can still keep that if you keep the opening paragraph vague. Other than this, I think the letter format works well for this story, and should you wish to continue this you might want to read the original Dracula, the whole story is told through letter fragments which would serve as a nice example.

#Setting

Even with the given format I think that you could find ways of squeezing more descriptions in there. For example, you could expand on the lightbulb theme as being symptomatic of the larger problem. How after coming home from a long day of cleaning Sian refuses to clean the house too, and Charlie still doesn't do anything, leading to more friction. In little snippets like that, you can reveal small things about the house, the way it looks day to day, their poverty. I think that is what I found a bit lacking, there isn't much for the reader to immerse themselves in the story, and I appreciate that novel descriptions are hard to pull off given the limited language skills of the protagonist.

You might also want to consider where the story takes place in the US. For example if Charlie and Sian were from the deep south, the church values would play a role on Charlie's conscience. If they were in a state with the 3 strikes law, this might be an additional motivation for Charlie to write the letter, since another infraction could mean that he goes to prison for life if he had committed other crimes. I think that you missed a few opportunities like this by keeping the setting non-descript.

#Character/Plot

I think the way you handled the progression and pacing was masterful. The plot doesn't go into detail of too many events, instead it focuses on these distinct moments, or breaking points which the character deemed important. Not only is this exactly how one might go about explaining a story like that to a lay person, you also get the sense that there is so much more left unsaid. The story benefits from taking place over a couple of months, with a slow escalation. I also appreciated the subtleness of the Charlies actions. For example he doesn't seem to know himself why he hates the smell of bleach, however it seemed to be evident that it reminds him of how much he's failing. How his girlfriend works all day while he sits around being sad. I can definitely imagine this character existing, and his voice feels authentic.

One thing that I would mention is that the anger needs to build up more. This event takes place over a few months, and all Charlie describes are the outbursts. Instead of seeing them as the points of friction, and a build up of anger I see them as release points. Charlie is frustrated with his life, lack of prospects and struggling to find his place in it after an incident. Every second that he wastes away drinking in front of the tv deepens this feeling, like a mantra: 'I am a failure, I am not doing anything, why am I like this'. Finally when Sian comes home, the smell of the bleach, or another holiday advert is what pushes him over the edge, instead of causing the anger. In my view, Charlie only hits Sian because of his own inadequacies, instead of actually being angry at her specifically. I think this would play really well into the final escalation scene, and make it make more understandable.

When Charlie attempts to fight his rage, showers and waits for Sian, the anger is still there, the frustration. He is trying so hard to overcome it, he gives it his all in an show attempt to try to save his relationship. Then his girlfriend comes home when he's in the toilet and ruins his big gesture. 'I've been trying so hard to make this work, I put in all of this effort to overcome my demons, to be a better person, and she doesn't even appreciate it? That bitch.' I think that's the frame of mind you should be aiming for. I think the simmering anger feeds into the story you're telling and in my mind domestic violence comes as an outburst, so you need to show that build up. I would explain early on how sitting in front of the tv and drinking makes him feel a little bit more. What his mind goes through every time he can't muster changing the light bulb. Then every time Sian comes home, you return to those feelings that you described.

I am sorry for apparently trying to write your story for you, I just don't know how to give critique on a character without doing this deep dive into his psyche. Hope I didn't clash with your vision of the character.

3
noekDOP•

I think adding a paragraph where he explains that he doesn't really know why he is writing this, despite the evidence, and that he just wants to explain his side of thing.

It's funny you say this because that is originally how I started the piece. In the end, I decided against it because it felt perhaps too on the nose. But your suggestion definitely makes me reconsider this decision.

You might also want to consider where the story takes place in the US.

This is actually meant to take place in Britain. Although, I was quite conscious of whether or not this is apparent enough. Thank you for providing me with a data point. And, in any case, your point still applies; I could definitely aim to make more use of the specific location and surrounding aspects of said location.

I am sorry for apparently trying to write your story for you

No need to apologise. I found your comments helpful and didn't feel as though you were being overimposing with your suggestions.

Thank you very much for your time and thoughts. I appreciate it greatly.

1
Infinite-diversity•

Preamble, written after I wrote everything below: I don't actually think I can count this as a critique. It wasn't supposed to be. I've put all my focus onto a singular idea as it blew me away whilst I was reading. But that kind of ballooned as I read again and again in search of answers/justifications. And this entire "critique" rests on that singular focus being a legitimate one. You'll find me backtracking as I reevaluate certain things, but I've decided to leave them in; hopefully the reason why will be evident by the end. So now: this. I apologise in advance. Thanks for sharing your work!

Did the framing device work for me: Yeah, dualism. My explanation for this has to be viewed in conjunction with the opening lines:

Dear Judge ——, ||| We went around together for a while. Almost three years. We’d been living together about the same amount of time.

You telegraphed the ending from the get go, although not the severity of it. So, quite naturally, I was forced into two contrasting opinions about why Charlie is writing the letter. 1) He genuinely feels remorse for the actions yet to be revealed, or 2) he's attempting to emotionally manipulate the judge into a more lenient sentence. Pity and disgust, respectively. I had to continue reading to reconcile myself. I was "hooked". So, yes, the framing device served its purpose beautifully.

Did the piece feel real, authentic, and believable: Real and believable: yes. Authentic? That's harder because, owing to the plausible definitions of this word, I can't help but conflate this question with my answer to the previous question. Authentic in Charlie's intentions (sincere remorse or calculated manipulation) or authentic in the sense that I could believe Charlie exists, and that this is a real letter.

Let's question if the letter could be real. Yes, it could be, so it's authentic. That would mean Charlie is a skilled writer, meaning the devices and techniques he employed (i.e. the "PSA" paragraph) were to serve a particular function. And that, to me, would suggest manipulation… making it inauthentic in its self-attested sincerity (i.e. his sign off). If the letter is inauthentic, then the remorse that you, the real writer, have woven within comes across as intended to be authentic… which you achieved as I do believe someone could have written this letter (real and believable: yes). So, if I can see it as authentic… then it's not authentic… wait? This was the best thing for this piece. This duality is its entire "hook". We are in a continuous roundabout with how we do, and want, to perceive Charlie as a person. This roundabout reasoning works to its advantage (if you intended this, you might be a fucking genius). My answer is awaiting reconciliation.

Was the narrator's voice distinct? Did it work for me? Was it consistent?: It worked for me. And it was almost entirely consistent (see below). But, distinct? No. It's right for what it is attempting to be. It's considered. Charlie is attempting a matter-of-fact recount of events in as neutral a capacity as he is able, yet his emotions are bleeding through in the form of justifications (somewhat petty justifications, "you know?".). But no, not distinct in the distinguishable sense. I couldn't pick up another "Charlie Latter" and identify it through the originality of voice (as one could with a Nabokov, Woolf, Joyce, or Camus). Not distinct, but effective in its intent; considered.

And about it being "almost entirely consistent". This—

And if you want the truth, sometimes her working hard made me feel worthless, lousy. It sounds daft, [...]

—falls flat to me. I don't believe Charlie lacks the wherewithal to know that his feelings of inadequacy here aren't, in fact, "daft". From what has been presented before hand, he is not a stupid or naïve man. He will have reasoned, and will know that anyone else with half a brain who reads his letter will have also reasoned, that his feelings of inadequacy are warranted. I don't want to digress into a sociocultural speel about constructions here—it's not relevant—but, as a matter of "setting" (his background is clear, very familiar to me), and his cognisance presented, he certainly knows that this is not "daft" (Should it be "daft"? This ain't the forum to ask/answer, despite the evident subtext). Although… If I'm to revisit the above (remorse or manipulation) this could be a failed attempt by Charlie, an attempt to display an inability to be judged "sound of mind"; a very subtle addition to his (apparent, displayed) inability to realise why he started detesting the smell of the bleach (which would support the manipulation theory). This is either a misstep on your behalf, or one hell of a 4D-gambit to subtly let the reader know Charlie's true intention (you've already displayed the ability to pull this type of shit off, so I am willing to believe it). In short, this may or may not be an inconsistency.

3
Infinite-diversity•

Small grievances:

What follows are not inconsistencies, rather the very few places I think you were in error.

And, each of those days that went by, I got meaner and meaner.

The comma after "And".

Some advert would come on, about holiday deals, about cruises, something like that.

The comma after "would come on".

And, every time that stuff come up, I’d just get this overwhelming feeling I was wasting my life, you know.

And another comma after "And".

These are small, but I do consider them errors/miscalculations. I accept and understand that these are intended for a specific emotional effect. Charlie is shaking his head slightly whilst writing. His mouth is ever so slightly parted. A solemn dejection. "Tremulous", almost. But I think that it is premature. I think you should remove these commas, stay consistent with the voice already displayed, and use this idea closer towards the climax. Quickly, I'd like to justify this suggestion further. Without the commas these lines read less "tremulous" and more "stupefied"—a very minuscule shift in tone, I admit. Now, Charlie's eyes are slightly wider. He appears to be looking through the paper. He's reliving their drifting apart, feeling it anew, instead of reflecting upon it from his cell (which the current choice implies). He's dazed. It works because he has the foreknowledge of where this road will lead. I know you asked for feedback only where the grammar breaks its own conventions, and this doesn't, so I apologise for the possible overstep.

The worst thing you did, deserving of its own subheader:

When I was a kid, there used to be these clips on telly, PSAs.

[Quick aside, I remember this advert and I've also used its idea in a story] I like the idea, the message, and the possible implications (as mentioned above). But this paragraph is the worst part of the piece because of its execution. The tone shifts from "Charlie the persona" to "Charlie the writer". He describes the scene exactly as a writer would, being sure to not let the reader be mistaken between "past-self" and "present-self". He describes the actions with the cadence and economy of a writer: "He’d start crying, slouch against the glass, his head bowed, accepting there was nothing he could do now."

Now, I should love this, it gives my "remorse or manipulation" theory solid ground to stand on (especially when we consider the "monster" paragraph to come). But I think it's too much. The subtlety gives this piece its strength. To overtly display his "ability" takes the idea down a peg, in my opinion. I believe this should be revised—not removed—into the voice Charlie has already shown (note: this isn't a matter of tense or aspect; continuous. It's specifically the voice, its presentation). Everything that I found (possibly constructed in my own mind) and enjoyed in this piece still works (and works better, imo) without this overt indication. Because then you went and did this:

The best thing you did, deserving of its own subheading:

Above all the praise I have given this piece, this is the best choice you made as it allowed me reconciliation: "That". Your continued use of "that" looks unassuming, as if it's just the way Charlie speaks (well, writes). But it's not, "you know." That is what happened. That is who I am. That, that. That, that. It's a matter of fact. And then you read this:

Sian couldn’t even see that that’s how it was, you know.

The implications of this sentence regarding remorse or manipulation are huge. He knows how it is. He knows why he felt inadequate. He knows—at least at the time of writing this—that he was "taking the power back". And even though he may feel remorseful on some level, it doesn't outweigh the fact that this is a clear attempt to save his own skin. No, to answer one possible side of your previous question, this is not authentic. It's not authentic in the best way possible.

Regarding the ending: Yeah, man. You got me. I don't usually fall for the double-take as that would require a prior hope in humanity. But you got me. I really wanted to pity Charlie… "Sincerely, Charlie Latter". But, in the end, I chose the latter.

Overall: Great. 2nd or 3rd best thing I've read on here. It's possible I've fabricated everything I thought was great about it. But I'm willing to believe you did it intentionally, also. So I'm sticking with "great". It's unassuming. I could easily see it in a short story collection, and I would buy that collection (this is the stuff I enjoy reading). The idea itself isn't anything original but how you have used it as a vehicle is impressive. We blame Charlie, "what a bad man". We pity his remorse in spite of our suspicions. We wonder if he is just another product of our systems. Does that make him capable of sympathy and understanding? Would Sian's family see it that way? In short: how do we judge him? Pity and disgust; remorse or manipulation. Did the framing device work for me?

Yeah. Dualism.

3
noekDOP•

I am incredibly grateful for the amount of thinking and nuance contained in this critique. I really appreciate the fact you took the time to engage with and contemplate the piece on the level you did. Your insight is wonderfully intelligent.

But I must say that I think you're giving me more credit than is due. I did indeed intend to evoke in readers the clashing of "Charlie the sincere, remorseful product of a broken system" vs "Charlie the cunning, self-serving manipulator" (and, in fact, I myself don't even know Charlie's true intentions). However, I did not consider - to the rather impressive extent you did - the added layer of complexity that the relationship between Charlie's own writing ability and my authorial presence adds to this "dualism", as you call it. Thank you for elucidating this so well for me.

I'm also grateful for the keen attention you paid to some of the subtleties I tried to incorporate - the "It sounds daft", the weight of the "that"s. Although, I will say that the placements of the commas you pointed out and their relation to tone was not something I considered. You have an impressively acute artistic/literary sensitivity and, again, I immensely appreciate you interacting with my piece the way you did.

Anyway, thank you. Unassuming and layered with complexity was exactly what I was going for. Your reaction to the piece is a perfect mix of vindicating, challenging in regards to my own understanding of my piece, and constructive. Maybe this is a somewhat self-indulgent reply, but I just really am grateful that you took the time to think about this piece on its own terms, you know.

2
Infinite-diversity•

You made it fun to go so deep... (that's not meant to sound like that).

I'm glad you found something beneficial in my sort-of-critique. And, nah. Not self-indulgent at all. You did it. You pulled it off. You've earned the right to feel good about it.

If I can ever be of any more help, with anything, don't hesitate to ask.

Also, "You have an impressively acute artistic/literary sensitivity." I don't believe so, personally, but I'll gladly take the compliment and file it away into my brain! Thank you.

2
sarcasonomicon•

1/3

Summary

I think this is very very good. I almost decided to not even try to provide feedback because your writing instincts and skills are better than mine, and if you were to make changes based on my feedback, you might make the story worse, not better. But, in the spirit of trying to level-up as a writer myself, I'm going to try to articulate a few things about this that you might look into.

Typical reviews here talk about elements of the story like characters, setting, and plot. That doesn't feel like the right set of focus areas for this, so I'm going to talk about your piece from these perspectives:

  • The premise - is there such a thing as a "letter to a judge"?
  • Charlie - What is this character about?
  • The colloquialisms - did you overdo it?
  • Is it too long?
  • The flickering bulb - I'm not sure I "get it"

The Premise

I didn't question the premise on my first read-through. But when I started thinking about how/where this piece would find an outlet, I wondered what a reader who found it might think about the premise. I just did some Googling and, in the US and UK, there is such a thing as a "Pre-Sentencing Letter" that a defendant would write to a judge. I've looked at a few pre-sentencing letter examples (making my Google search history just a little more interesting!) and they usually start with "Your Honor" or, like Charlie's, "Dear Judge X."

But after the "Dear Judge" salutation, the real-world pre-sentencing letters diverge a lot from Charlie's, and make some kind of argument for a reduction of the sentence. In the US, Charlie's attorney would probably do everything possible to stop Charlie from writing this letter. The real-world examples I've found typically ask the judge to consider the whole life of the defendant, not just their one deed, and to have leniency. So - as a pre-sentencing letter, the story is not realistic. I think its a judgement call between using the framing device of a letter to a judge, which lets the reader know something heavy is happening, or framing it as something else - an interview with a local reporter.

One notion is to title the piece "pre-sentencing letter..." or something like that - maybe this would be more powerful foreshadowing than the "Dear Judge" alone provides. And it might prevent a reader from dismissing the premise.

3
sarcasonomicon•

2/3

Charlie

Why did you write this? Did you write it as a "flex" to show you can get into the head of someone like Charlie with major depression? Or did you want to scare me? I see small elements of myself in Charlie: strong feelings of guilt after I've acted like an asshole, which can vanish right when I'm trying to make things better.

There's a lightbulb in my bathroom I've been meaning to replace since last August. Am I sliding down the same slippery slope of depression and violence as Charlie?

Or are you speaking a truth about the human condition - how things go downhill slowly at first, then faster and faster until you can't stop it?

My impression is that you're dissecting a tragedy, showing us some of the components of what led up to it, and you are implicitly asking us if we see some of these same things in ourselves, our relationships, or people we know. If this wasn't why you wrote it, you should be aware that one reader (me) came away with this impression.

The most tragic moment, to me, was the event where Charlie made (what was for him) a big effort to change the direction of things - showering and waiting for Sian to come home. But, as the universe loves to ruin a plan, he was in the bathroom when she came home, and she was not in a mood that would be receptive to Charlie's efforts. I really feel like you've captured something about the way the world works here.

The Colloquialisms

I think the main things to watch out for if you're going to be heavy on colloquialisms are:

- are they right?

- are they distracting?

- are you making fun of or offending a group of people?

Are they right? The voice of Charlie in my head had what I think you'd call a cockney accent. From a reader from the West side of "the pond" it sounded right to me.

Are they distracting? Mostly no. Here are a few things that need mentioning, though:

We went around together for a while. Almost three years.

We’d been living together about the same amount of time.

I had to think this through. "Going around together" means dating? So they moved in together shortly after they started dating? I'm not saying you should change this, but I did get tripped up on the very first sentence, which you usually want to avoid.

I hadn't worked for the council for a few months

This must be a UK-ism. I don't know what it means - he worked for the city?

And that’s when she’d say about London or France.

You might have gone too far in giving Charlie bad grammar here: I think he should write "when she she'd talk about..."

Are you making fun of a group of people? I don't think there's any way I can answer that since I'm not steeped in the culture in the UK. I'm pretty sure that you're trying hard to show that Charlie has a working-class accent. Please double-check that you're not making the UK-equivalent of the mistakes I could easily make if I (whitest white guy) wrote an urban African American character. Here's a quote from actor/rapper Tyler James Williams:

“Dear non black writers, Please stop writing black ‘slang’ dialogue for your black characters,” wrote Williams. “It always sounds like it was written by a middle aged white dad. Always. Like never doesn’t sound like that. Sincerely, Black actors trying to make your s–t sound natural.”

Are you 100% sure you're not making the UK version of what Tyler James Williams is complaining about?

3
sarcasonomicon•

3/3

Is it too long?

Is there any fat that can be cut? You do a really good job of walking us through the progression from normal couple to murder with nearly ever little scene moving us forward. Let's take a look at that progression. Here's my outline:

  1. everything is nice
  2. smell of bleach bothers Charlie - Charlie says mean stuff
  3. Sleeping on the couch
  4. the lightbulb
  5. Sleeping on the couch again
  6. Stop asking Charlie to come to bed
  7. Sitting separately
  8. Charlie not responsive
  9. Charlie thinking about working hard and just not cut out to be happy ("Sitting there all silent, I’d get to thinking, thinking")
  10. PSAs
  11. Sobered up a little, cried
  12. Tries to look nice - it goes downhill
  13. The flickering bulb - crying
  14. Murder

After a careful re-read, I think that #3 - the first paragraph about sleeping on the couch - is redundant and could be removed. Also, I'm not sure that #9 moves us forward in the escalation. In my opinion, the paragraph I'm calling #9 here could be removed.

The flickering bulb

I found myself a little confused about this part. Here's what the scene meant to me:

For months Charlie doesn't replace the bulb. But then, in this scene near the end, he flicks the lamp on to make some kind of point. This is where I got lost. Did he do that to show Sian that he finally changed the bulb?

Then the bulb starts to flicker and goes out - the one thing Charlie does goes bad, just by bad luck. He finally changed that bulb - he made some kind of positive effort. But then the bulb breaks. Charlie's attempts to make things better, as small as they are, always fall flat.

If the flickering bulb wasn't intended to convey this, then you should know I didn't come away with what you wanted me to come away with.

EDIT - oops, I meant paragraph #9 could be removed

3
noekDOP•

Thank you for your kind words and interesting insight! I'm glad you feel I've given some good insight into the human psyche and also done a decent job of challenging readers to reflect upon their own potential flaws and fallibilities. This is definitely something I attempted to evoke here.

Definitely agree with your suggestion of removing paragraph #3. Also appreciate you challenging me as to whether or not I'm representing Charlie and the group(s) he belongs to in an appropriate way. And will definitely mull over your comments regarding the framing device.

All in all, a great criqtue. Really appreciate your taking the time. Thank you very much!

2