You just can't make this up. Can you imagine being this immaculately, exquisitely, perfectly backwards? It's mind-blowing.
Posted Mar 30, 2022, 4:48 AM UTC
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He's not totally wrong tbh
Capital markets would be more free in the absence of state regulation and with widespread use of private currency.
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He is totally right about the de facto State ownership of EVERYTHING (for example, and it's just one mechanism, via taxation, and what happens to you if you stop paying).
He's completely wrong about calling this system "capitalism". It's socialism.
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True.
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Yes I agree
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I love the whole “aCtUalLy cApiTaLiSm oPeRaTeS jUst LiKe cOmMuNiSm” argument that keeps being placed forth.
Actually retarded
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It's nuts. The guy actually has the balls to continually say that I'm the one trying to redefine capitalism in the thread. It's just nuts.
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I had one tell me the other day that what I know as capitalism isn’t capitalism, that’s commerce and that actually even Marxist economies have commerce
No shit, bitch, but I never brought up Marxism??? Yeah they have commerce, they also have mass murder?? They’re not the same or even remotely similar
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They bash capitalism while taking part int at the same time. Fucking double standards!
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Given that viewpoint, how is socialism substantially different? The only real difference is that socialists eschew long term investment and capital formation. All else is the same, and the results are far worse. CvsS should be FreeMarketvsSocialism, instead.
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That's the bit I don't get. They're describing the first steps to anti-capitalism (whether it be communism, socialism, fascism or any other non capitalist system). It's like they don't even understand what they're in favour of.
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This is a real problem. When I talk to people about capitalism I find I have to use the term free-market to be absolutely clear.
But I spend half the discussion saying, no that's not what I believe.
Maybe too many people just don't even understand the concept of the spontaneous, decentralised order of free markets.
They think SOMEONE must control the economy or how would it work? So capitalism isn't a system of non-control to them. It is a system of basically billionaire communism.
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You should check out the rest of the conversation that is still ongoing with that guy. He's got the most obvious cognitive dissonance I've seen in a long time.
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It's like they've already assumed America is pure capitalism. So whatever America does is capitalism.
It doesn't cross their mind that America (and every other somewhat capitalist mixed economy in the west) is not philosophically consistent and is a mess of capitalism and non-capitalism.
But they would be the first to say [insert catastrophic failure] isn't real communism.
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they think someone must control the economy
Yeah why would they think that? Just because that’s the only sustainable economic model that actually exists?
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Cannot tell if you're being sarcastic.
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He makes a correct observation (the de facto State ownership of markets and enterprises in our Western developed societies).
But the correct conclusion from his observation is that there is no capitalistic system in place, currently, but different forms of socialism/communism.
He just can't let go of his fixation with certain words, and gets stuck with his "cApitALizM BaaadD!"
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Yup, exactly. I tried to convince him of that, but he, of course, just doubled-down, as they always do.
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Capitalism is when the market controls the state, not the other way around - that would actually be better.
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He’s kinda right. True Capitalism has never existed. How many businesses are injected with government money? A lot. There has never been “free trade” as we would like it because of clear government intervention. Doesn’t mean capitalism is not worth gunning for.
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Capitalist economies have never been free market
Unironically, real capitalism has never been tried.
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Real capitalism has never been tried
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It is mind boggling to me that people in general know so little of their history that they believe they live in a free market capitalism. Even the U.S.A. has never had a national free market system.
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Eh. It's a common syndrome. Anything bad = caypitaleesm. It's stupid
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Yeah I’m noticing that now I can’t even hold an intelligent argument with Reddit leftists because we always get stuck at the beginning trying to at least agree with the simple definition of economic terms
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Well if you define that as free market then fuck free markets.
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Pretty spot on for most of what he said. We obviously have different definitions for capitalism but he is basically describing the capitalist (air quotes) system we have now. Personally I’m starting to use “free market” in lieu of the term capitalism when I’m talking to normies so they don’t short circuit and miss my point.
A better term as it is very hard to attack with spurious arguments. It's like Libertarian vs. Ancap. Anyone can call themselves "libertarian" these days, but it's very difficult to claim to be an ancap and yet advocate or apologize for government interventions.
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He's describing a state supervised economy. Capitalism is just private ownership and control over means of production. That is all there is to that, nothing more. A banking system, currency, corporations, markets, none of that is capitalism.
Markets existed before capitalism also, but by definition state regulations are not compatible with free market. The more regulations, the less free the market is.
Instead of playing into the ignorance of the masses, educate your interlocutors. Explain the terms when you talk to them and explain that a corporation bribing a state official to get special privileges is not capitalism, because capitalism is nothing more but a system in which an individual can own means of production.
https://www.google.com/search?q=capitalism+definition
You lemme know when the definition of capitalism changes, and I'll stop laughing at this guy at that time. Til then,
#LMAO.
Not really the gotcha you think it is. You referring to a generic, general definition to shit on nuance makes it look like you don’t understand what’s going on. There are different capitalist societies, and they have different defining features/characteristics. The post you’re ragging on has characterized ours pretty well.
Say what you want about it being disingenuous because it's reductive or lacking nuance; I don't play those games.
I think it's disingenuous to say "well yeah here's the long-established conception of what capitalism is, which Karl Marx himself conveyed and critiqued, but actually sometimes it is the exact opposite and actually matches up functionally to the socialism preferred by the Marxists, but we still call it capitalism cuz it's not working out so great."
Like, i dunno how much more of a bullshit take you need. The guy straight-up described socialism and called it capitalism, and I'm getting pushback on r/anarcho_capitalism? Wow.
I think your mistake is that you're completely buying the propaganda that capitalism is what we have right now without critical thought, when the status quo doesn't match what Marx observed and coined in the slightest.
But, you lemme know when we no longer have socialism: a democratically-elected body with ultimate control over all property and economic interaction within its jurisdiction (Congress), and I'll stop laughing.
Til then,
#LMAO!
Yikes dude. The items he rattles through in the post are true, and he was likely referring to capitalism like most Americans do. Which is to say we have it in the US. And conservatives rail on about free market. So most Americans think we have capitalism and a free market. I don’t know what else you want me to say.
Exactly he’s right about what it is right now in time but Capitalism now isn’t what Real Capitalism is. Our current system is very exclusionary and often you need millions or quarters of millions to get different licenses making it so lower class people can’t enter certain fields.
Yeah exactly but would you rather debate the definition of Real Capitalism with people, or tell them about how the free market is the solution to pretty much every problem.
There’s no point in arguing with them. Most people will do self realization or they’ll stay with their beliefs. Just find like minded people that way the debate can at least remain Civil.