Source
r/CompetitiveEDH•
Temp_Variable

Mind Rake in cEDH

Single Card Discussion

I saw a post earlier where they brought up the idea that discard effects are a lot better right now and I agreed because of how greedy people are mulliganing and because the card quality is so high. When your opponents discard their worst card it is still hitting something pretty good. Additionally graveyard hate like [[dauthi voidwalker]] is very common right now which just makes discard better.

That being said I think [[mind rake]] deserves a look for some lists like a more mid range razacats, or most non-turbo Tymna lists that can break parity on the card disadvantage very early.

The card is definitely better before your opponents can get a card advantage engine set up, but I think since it's two cards it can still be a political tool in the mid game by forcing players to choose whether to keep interaction or a combo piece.

I'm curious what the rest of the community's opinion on [[mind rake]] and discard in general is.

Posted Apr 7, 2022, 12:19 PM UTC

2532
papa_spaghett•

There's no way of knowing if they have a combo in their hand but if they do then that's what counters and destruction is for. But my personal pick to kill a combo for a predictable deck would be [[extract]]. In the food chain days, I would sometimes use it against an opponent and it was glorious and dirty. So now that the community is mesmerized by the performance of bad decks, I'm going to tech it to remove their fragile combo preemptively. I'll monitor how that goes.

16
koireworksFringe Bih•

[[Praetor's Grasp]] has snatched a few Thoracles for me. Always feels great.

8
darkenhand•

Imagining a deck without blue winning a consult combo because of Grasp is always going to be funny.

4
Cthullu1sCut3•

been there, saw that. It is quite funny

2
thoughtsarefalse•

Smiles in [[Grinning Totem]]. But really i saw a daretti deck here that had that as a “win” line since it could assemble infinite self mill with mesmeric orb.

1
MTGCardFetcher•

Grinning Totem - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call

1
MTGCardFetcher•

Praetor's Grasp - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call

2
PM_2_Talk_LocalRacesHypothetical Brewer•

When I started building decks, I lived in mortal terror of someone adding [[Sadistic Sacrament]] and just nixing three key cards and locking me out of winning at all.

3
Sakatsu_DkonPlays Karador in [current year]•

Early in our EDH days, one of my friends ran both Sadistic Sacrament and Praetors Grasp as a means of neutering our meta of combo decks. This was also back when tucking your commander still existed, so there was a very real chance you'd lose out on your combo and your commander. Made deck building interesting to say the least!

2
MTGCardFetcher•

Sadistic Sacrament - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call

1
MTGCardFetcher•

extract - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call

1
darkenhand•

I remember playing against a Tinybones stax deck. That's like the extreme version of this. It was alright but not impressive. I think wheels is a big factor to why discard is meh. I sometimes like to use [[Syphon Mind]] in my EDH decks.

7
Hitzel•

Yeah, I was about to say that this kind of effect is good in precisely Tinybones and that's about it. It's rad that Thoughtseize in Tinybones is basically a strictly better Git Probe. Turn 1 Tinybones, Duress the Mana Crypt you kept that hand for is one of the best feelings ever lol.

Ultimately though he's a barely fringe deck and even in him these effects are pretty flimsy, so that should paint a pretty clear picture of how poor these kinds of cards are in cEDH.

4
MTGCardFetcher•

Syphon Mind - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call

1
MTGCardFetcher•

dauthi voidwalker - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
mind rake - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call

4
Level9_CPU•

I've been turn 1 thoughtseized before and it really fucked everything up. All they did was get rid of my mana crypt but it essentially set me back a few turns when I thought I could dump my hand and instantly windfall on turn 1

4
NerdyTimesOrWhateverRashmi Draw-Go Control Why Is the Flair Limit sooooooooooo long?•

I think it is a card & effect that certainly exist. Its for 1v1.

The reason counterspells see play outside of 1v1 and discard does not was already stated by our lord Papa_Spaghett, information difference.

3
TheKillingRhythmOrvar / K'rrik / Gitrog / Kenrith•

not sure if I agree with the "its for 1v1" statement when talking specifically (!) about Mind Rake.

it is 1 mana cheaper when overloaded and then it is (in a 4 player format) "netting" 8 cards to be discarded for only 2 mana... including yourself, yes - but as someone already said, this is easily planned for with some reanimation strategy and/or a discard payoff...

is that still not good enough for cEDH, you think?
(genuinely asking, still dipping my toes into these here waters :-P )

3
NerdyTimesOrWhateverRashmi Draw-Go Control Why Is the Flair Limit sooooooooooo long?•

Again, the issue is information gap, and is also selection.

•You cannot choose what cards your opponents discard (Card Selection)

•You do not know what they have in hand, and if anyone will be effected negatively (Information Gap)

•You do not get the information benefit provided by counterspells on your 2 uninteracted with opponents (You can assume theyre light on interaction/have none in hand if a game ending spell gets priority passed on quickly) (Information Gap, Not taking advantage of your opponents mana/interaction)

Here is an example of an extremely good discard card:

[[Chains of Mephistopheles]]

It costs the same, is recurrent, disrupts quite a few strategies, and is generally a great way to end the night if you hate humanity as a whole! It just stops hard CA and forces it to be selection.

CA is Card Advantage, just drawn cards.

Card selection, in terms of discard, would be targeted discard like Thoughtseize (which wouldnt have an information gap, though that card is unplayable for being too low impact).

Card Selection generally refers to drawing and discarding the same amount of cards, think Preordain, Brainstorm (w/o a fetchland).

Edit: Term clarification for a newer person c:

1
AliceShiki123•

Uhn... Your argument is weird. Why are you talking about opponents that weren't interacted with?

Mind rake is a 2 mana spell that makes each player discard 2 cards. Everyone gets interacted with there.

5
NerdyTimesOrWhateverRashmi Draw-Go Control Why Is the Flair Limit sooooooooooo long?•

Thats the way you have to discuss interaction in a 4 player game.

Edit: Additionally, Mind rake puts you down 3 cards in hand, not 2.

Wait, are you confused because I said the effect was for 1v1? I was talking about discard.

0
MTGCardFetcher•

Chains of Mephistopheles - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call

1
shinehunt•

This is pretty good in [[Tergrid, God of Fright]], and with [[waste not]]. Secret tech in discard is [[library of leng]]

2
MTGCardFetcher•

Tergrid, God of Fright/Tergrid, God of Fright - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
waste not - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
library of leng - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call

1
msolace•

if it was less targeted discard and more each opponent then it might be better, But I don't know if I care that my cards in graveyard right now, it sometimes just helps :P

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
Temp_VariableOP•

I'm more interested in the overload cost that is cheaper and does hit each player.

1
Mt_Koltz•

So you'll pay two mana to go down 3 cards?

-3
Temp_VariableOP•

In certain decks where the graveyard is more accessible yes. I may be willing to go down 3 cards to have my opponents go down 6. It seems like a short sighted way to view this card though.

3
NerdyTimesOrWhateverRashmi Draw-Go Control Why Is the Flair Limit sooooooooooo long?•

Thats the thing. A lot of decks can abuse this as well.

Thanks for helping me pitch my reanimation target

0