Source
r/TheUltimatumNetflix•
this_itches

Is it bizarre for men to not be able to shut up about wanting kids?

Not to brag but I am both child free and an anti-natalist so I definitely don't really get the whole concept in general, but one of the white guys on this show will not stfu about wanting his chosen mate to be a baby factory. For what?

Why does he feel that he has any right to demand this of women? He's so insistent, it's honestly coming off like an obsession. This, to me, seems a very wrong and peculiar reason for a man in particular to seek a woman mainly for her to make this child fantasy a reality, for him. He's willing to risk anything for this ideal he has about "family".

And yes I am implying what it sounds like I'm implying. I'm posting only because I wonder if I'm particularly sensitive to it due to my own personal beliefs, but it's so glaring that I was curious if parents also find this behavior rather alarming.

Posted Apr 9, 2022, 7:09 PM UTC

1430
ExoticHalibut•

I mean, I think more men want children than women do, despite the tropes of women “trapping” men with babies. Pregnancy and childbirth is hugely risky for women, plus they end up being the default parent in most cases, their careers suffer, etc. It’s honestly a pretty shit deal for women.

I don’t think it’s unusual that Nate really wants kids and to be vocal about it - I know lots of guys like him who have a clear image of the family they’d like to have. It’s not any different from someone else seeking a partner of a certain financial or social status to attain the lifestyle they want.

But I do think he’s absolutely unhinged in that he’s trying to make it work with a partner who has stated multiple times that she has no interest in kids. Both are valid perspectives and life choices, but they truly have no business being together. Whether to have kids or not is a huge irreversible decision that will forever alter their lives - it’s not something that can be compromised on.

15
Radiant_Yak_7738•

I agree with the last paragraph. He’s not thinking about the child being raised by a mother who could potentially resent them because she didn’t really want them in the first place. He’s thinking himself being a father. But having kids is not about you, Nate. 🤦🏾‍♀️

3
AmConfused324•

If it was weird for men to want babies than women wouldn’t be so pressured into having kids they don’t want.

9
this_itchesOP•

I'm gathering in this thread that a lot more women are having kids without wanting to, than I ever would have thought.

7
Stoic_Chief•

Well most humans are wired for reproduction, and most humans value family, community, and legacy (we’re social creatures. Community has played a big role in how humans have been able to thrive). Men and women alike. You don’t complain about April being so insistent on having a child and pressuring her boyfriend. Why is it wrong for men to have the same desire which are 100% natural? And literally written in out DNA. It’s only been in modern times where people have been able to sustain a life alone to the point where they can feel like they don’t need family or community. And even then those people are the minority.

At the end of the day people just have to find someone who have the same values as them. There’s nothing wrong with wanting a lot of children and seeking a woman who wants the same. And if that’s important to you it makes sense to lead with that and let it be known.

7
this_itchesOP•

It's wrong for everyone in my view, but you don't normally see men behave this way. You can certainly admit that it's less common.

Because of that, I was not sure if my disgust fell into my typical views or if the abnormality was alarming to "most humans". That's why I posted 👍

2†
Stoic_Chief•

In my personal life I actually see men excited to have children and wanting children. The concept of legacy is really important to a lot of dudes. I will say it’s less common compared to women, and in terms of media is not something shown a lot. So I understand your initial shock.

5
AmberGoldz•

Most men I know talk about and want children. It’s a pretty normal thing to want. Are men supposed to be seen as so cold and stoic and uncommitted they are never even supposed to want kids?

1
this_itchesOP•

No it was the obsessive way of speaking about it, like a fantasy or an addiction, that it's vital above all else for him. That is the post.

3
skirtbodiedperson•

Fellow anti natalist and the way people talk about kids on this show is fucking creepy. The way April went on and on about wanting to be a mommy her whole life and the way someone else said their kids would need to know another language and a musical instrument was so gross. I literally cannot understand this obsession with breeding.

7
anonymousletters343•

I'm pregnant and no i don't think it's alarming. Men can want to be dad's the same as women want to be moms. The only way it's concerning is if the women isn't on board. Same with women who pressure men to have kids they don't want.

Hell my husband and I had the kids talk 1 month into dating. The fact of kids is, you shouldn't be marrying someone who doesn't want them if you do. That's a divorce waiting to happen. Life goals and core values are important and if kids is a high priority then HELL yeah they should talk about it and make it crystal clear that's what they want in the future.

6
this_itchesOP•

For sure at least in a common human/psychological and sociological way, the idea of falling in love and then deciding to build a family out of that, is not bizarre or alarming.

5
musiconvolumeup•

Human existence is, at the root, about reproducing. It’s not crazy that people (men or women) have the goal of starting a family before knowing who it’s going to be with.

0
this_itchesOP•

What makes you believe that?

1
FallAspenLeaves•

We discussed it on our first date! LOL

3
thegoldinthemountain•

I do think this guy’s view is way too common in general because the stakes are so absurdly low for men (right down to the biology of the thing—don’t have to build, carry, or feed the baby, at least “naturally”) not to mention work customs and expectations, BUT

This guy in general just happens to be like “family annihilator” levels of domineering “everything is just fine” Colgate smile. So it’s also partially just him.

4
brilaaa•

Think of it reversed, would you consider seriously dating or marrying someone that did want kids?

2
maybe-mel•

I am child free and I was that situation in my mid 20s. I ended the relationship after 2 years, it was hard but I was never going to change my mind no matter how much he tried to convince himself I would.

I am now in my mid 30s and happily married, found my person and thank god he was very on board on with kids.

4
brilaaa•

Unfortunately one person in the marriage would be sacrificing too much if one wanted kids and the other didn’t. Back when I was dating, men often asked pretty early on if I wanted kids down the line. I didn’t find anything wrong with that bc even though I wasn’t ready for kids in then, I knew I would be incompatible with someone who was set on never having them.

I’m sure it was difficult to end your relationship with the first guy, but I’m glad it all worked out for you in the end!

2
this_itchesOP•

Of course not but that's not really my post/question. Even more importantly I would never date someone who is "looking for qualities that make a good wife and mom", that's the point of my post. A small but significant distinction.

3
brilaaa•

I understood the point of your post. My point is that if you’re not asking these questions up front, then you’re going to be wasting a lot of time dating people that you’re incompatible with. Also, there’s nothing wrong with seeking out a partner that would be a good spouse and parent. While the parenting part might not be important to you since you’re decidedly child free, if you’re dating to marry then you should be looking for qualities in men that would make them a good husband.

Kids and finances are the number 1 reasons for divorce. So it’s absolutely reasonable to look for a partner who has the same values and goals as you do in these two areas in particular.

Eta: please correct me if I’m totally off base here, but it feels like you’re painting these men as gross misogynists who view women as nothing more than baby making machines simply for being upfront about wanting a family. As someone else said, you didn’t call out any of the women this season for doing the exact same thing. This is simply a compatibility issue. Whether you want kids or not, you shouldn’t be wasting your time with people who don’t want the same things out of life as you do.

2
this_itchesOP•

Kids and finances are the number 1 reasons for divorce.

It seems ironic that you would include this. And yes your assessment of how I feel is correct, but I've also already explained why I did not mention any women.

3
brilaaa•

It seems ironic that you would include this.

How so? I feel like you’re either horribly misunderstanding me, or just completely unable to see that not everyone feels the same way about kids as you do.

1
musical_math•

IF this was actually his and Lauren's biggest issue, then it is perfectly reasonable that he is hyperfocused on it now. Him acting like a woman is a baby making factory is not ok, but when you are in a relationship and there's something as big as the question of children in the way, it is very easy for you to get into the mindset that the ONLY thing you care about in a partner is that they are willing to have kids instead of it being just one important thing.

I also think it may have been partially an editing thing. Clearly the show did not want Jake and Lauren to get engaged and leave the show so they made their whole story hyper-focused on kids and made sure to show us every clip possible with either of them talking about kids and hopefully turn the audience against their proposal, even though there are a number of reasons why the proposal could be seen in a negative light. Like I don't think we were supposed to "hate" the Hunter-Alexis proposal as much, but to hear April's clips, both proposals were equally insane.

1
spoooky_spice•

I don’t think it’s weird for a man to want to have kids, at all! But this dude… yeah the compilation was freaking me out at the reunion when they played the clips together of him saying he wants kids over and over and over and over… it definitely had a weird vibe to me.

1
AzansBeautyStore•

Um yes, very.

1