Source
r/KotakuInAction•
TokenSockPuppet

Tiger and Bunny 2 the newest victim of localizations pushing politics.

After 11 years the new season of Tiger and Bunny came out on Netflix and I was ecstatic. It took me a while to actually watch it though because I don't have Netflix and the anime app I use took a while to get it on there.

One of the new superhero teams is series regular Blue Rose and a movie character named Golden Ryan who was brought back for season 2. Ryan has a problem with constantly telling Karina (her real name) that he wants to protect her, calls her princess, yadda yadda and while his heart is obviously in the right place he does come across as annoying and condescending to her since she's a more established veteran. Ok, he has some flaws to get over and that's established in both the original and the dub.

The problem comes from a scene in episode 11 where they have a conversation where Ryan apologizes for a previous overprotective comment he made when there was a data breach by the enemy that could put Karina's civilian identity in jeopardy since her identity is secret and his is not. In the original version he tells her that he realizes that instead of treating her like she needs protected because she's female, he wants them both to mutually look out for each other bec that's what partners of any gender, age or size should do for one another. Very egalitarian, very reasonable position to have.

The DUB however, has Ryan straight up state that he's a feminist now, how his attitude stems from "outdated gender norms" and that he won't protect her anymore unless someone has a gun or something because "That's feminist right?"

So a nice character moment between the two about learning to look out for each other as partners and equals becomes a "MAN SEXIST, WOMAN NO NEED PROTECTION" screed, and frankly, given Ryan's bro-ish personality and the way he acts almost like Karina is his girlfriend or something it comes across less like "I've learned to respect you as an equal" and more like a closeted sex pest who wants to use feminism as a way to get into her leotard. It's so very cringey and ruins what is normally a very good dub.

Posted Apr 27, 2022, 3:23 AM UTC · edited

18485
Heinrich_Lunge•

DON'T watch dubs, starve them of their $$. Fan subs all the way and buy the blurays from Japan.

56
cookaway_•

I'm this close to starting a campaign deleting English voice actors from anime wikis because who the fuck cares??? I barely care about Japanese seiyuu.

There's also the racist undertone that they'll never add the VAs for, you know, all the other languages...

13
Piratearrows•

There's also the racist undertone that they'll never add the VAs for, you know, all the other languages...

I love your idea and this is a hilarious and brilliant way of getting the ball rolling.

7
8dev8•

Yeah no, fuck this, some dubs are trash but let people watch how they prefer,

-13
mbnhedger•

Nah dude, most English dubs are cancer and part of the reason we have the issues we have is because middle men like translators have gotten bigger than their britches...

Dub fans are literally the worst...

16
8dev8•

ah yes, how dare people enjoy hearing what is being said rather then reading it, such a grand crime/s

Fucking sub elitists

-11
mbnhedger•

Its less about how they watch the show and more about how they act after watching the show...

I've never met a person who preferred dubs not be a total spaz with the attention span of a goldfish.

11
Heinrich_Lunge•

CONSOOOOM

8
[deleted]•

I remember watching Tiger & Bunny years back, I think I’ll go see the sub if I do

29
Considered_Dissent•

One of the funny things I remember was that the gay hero was a literal flamer. Wonder how these idiots would react to that these days (it's practically a coin toss which way they'd go).

25
[deleted]•

Probably co-opt him because him and the show are too popular

That said, they don’t like him or any other character for that matter

16
TokenSockPuppetOPMy Country Tis of REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE•

They already did because Nathan isn't cis.

Funny if they didn't like him because he was my Christian aunt's favorite character.

4
[deleted]•

[removed]

0
TokenSockPuppetOPMy Country Tis of REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE•

Nathan is some flavor of feminine non-binary but the dub didn't really get the memo. I have heard either male or female pronouns are acceptable though. It's really hard to tell because I keep hearing conflicting reports from the staff but The Rising delved into his backstory and the reason he's called Nathan is because it's pronounced the same as Big Sister in Japanese.

I know there was some anger at the fact that he liked to play grabass with some of the other heroes and that got toned down to just being flirty with them in season 2.

2
VasylZaejue•

It’s how we ended up with Riza Hawkeye in FMA when her English name should have been Lisa Hawkeye. I feel sorry for translation and localization teams. They work so hard just to get shit on by stuff that might be beyond their control

2
TokenSockPuppetOPMy Country Tis of REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE•

Actually Nathan is really the character's name, so there was no fuckup on the part of the localization. The pun is just lost on English speakers.

Also I didn't know that about Riza. It reminds me about how Rally Vincent from Gunsmith Cats is actually supposed to be name Larry.

2
[deleted]•

Me too. I saw it on a local channel about anime. Great stuff. Great animation.

2
[deleted]•

My only hesitation, is I am pretty sure they won’t be doing a season 3 anytime soon, this is likely just a near random release and they’re also not gonna reveal whatever Chronos or Cerberus actually is till much later

1
[deleted]•

Ah, I seem to recall them cancelling all animations cause of the massive subscriber loss. They really do have some good animes like Kotaro Lives Alone. I just hope Arcane would be there next year.

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
Sleep_eeSheep•

I think that's just the nature of the beast. Localisation used to be pretty straightforward. Now it's just watering down the source material Ala 4Kids, except it's coming from the other extreme.

28
evilplushieA Good Wisdom•

If by watering you mean inserting their agenda

15
Sleep_eeSheep•

That's exactly what I mean. Their agenda is incredibly childish and monochrome. You're either with them or you're a Nazi. Even if you didn't ask for this.

18
TokenSockPuppetOPMy Country Tis of REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE•

It sucks ass because the first season had a really good dub and despite the show being diverse there was no agenda pushing at all. It was really my go-to for how to do diversity in something without being pandering or preachy and this kinda shot that down.

Feels bad man.

11
Sleep_eeSheep•

I'd actually chalk it up to 'Can we get away with this?' rather than anything ideologically-driven. You just said yourself that the character's hardly an icon of progressive male portrayals, so chances are the dub might have a line calling him some kind of false ally. Or that he needs to "do better".

2
Warskull•

And with a dub the answer to "Can we get away with this?" is almost always yes. Most anime fans will watch the sub because a majority of dubs are god awful. I didn't even know this happened.

Also a weird choice because Tiger and Bunny actually has a number of well handled plotlines and characters that fit right into far left politics. That whole subplot was about realizing that he doesn't need to protect her, they protect each other as partners.

Then you have Fire Emblem who is a great character and basically checks all the gender politics boxes. He's probably one of the best characters in the anime.

6
Sleep_eeSheep•

I think the only time this approach ever worked is Ghost Stories. Even then it was just South Park with better animation and worse writing.

1
[deleted]•

[removed]

1
AnarcrotheAlchemistMODMod - yeah nah•

Post removed following the enforcement change that you can read about here.

This is not a formal warning.

-4
Moth92•

Now it's just watering down the source material Ala 4Kids,

At least with 4Kids, it was about making the anime more for western kids, which is totally understandable. This shit on the otherhand is affecting stuff aimed at adults for political reasons.

1
Mr_Madruga•

Who watch dubs? lol

12
PurchaseInevitable•

Most normal people do. Unfortunately you're a gacha gamer and spend way too much time on games. You're abnormal.

1
TokenSockPuppetOPMy Country Tis of REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE•

I do, especially when I'm watching the show on a six inch wide screen. I also like fucking variety in the female characters voices rather than them sounding like they're voiced by one of two actresses. Also Kotetsu's Japanese voice annoys the piss out of me.

Tiger and Bunny has a great dub, they just had to chuck a turd in the punch bowl.

-1†
Piratearrows•

I also like fucking variety in the female characters voices rather than them sounding like they're voiced by one of two actresses.

No need to embarrass yourself OP.

13
TokenSockPuppetOPMy Country Tis of REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE•

I'm not embarrassed to point out that most female anime Characters sound very, very much the same to me. Maybe it's because I don't speak Japanese and thus can't pick out all the nuances of a speaker's voice because of it but 99% of female anime characters fall into screechy high pitched girl, slightly lower pitched teenage girl, and generic adult voice. Men fare a little better but that's because they tend to throw in "Nasally comedic character" or "old man" in with the spear counterparts to the female voices.

2
Mr_Madruga•

There's a lot of variety in japanese voice acting for both male and female characters. Of course you wouldn't know.

8
Impossible_Humor3171•

I think part of it is it's harder to pick out the nuance of someone's inflection when your not a native speaker. That's certainly part of the reason why I was slow to get into subs. Also the first Dub I ever saw was FMA which is probably the best dub ever. I was surprised when I found most dubs are not that good.

4
TokenSockPuppetOPMy Country Tis of REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE•

That's probably it. I wonder if not having to focus your mind on reading translations to the otherwise unintelligible words coming out of someone's mouth allows your brain to pick up subtle differences in pitch, timbre, accent and volume that we don't even think about doing in regular life.

2
TokenSockPuppetOPMy Country Tis of REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE•

Of course the Sub-Only snoots think preferring dubs means never watching subs. Too bad for you I actually HAVE seen a shit ton of subbed anime because a lot of things I want to watch on free services either only come with the subbed version, or there was never a dub to begin with. Jesus Christ, it's like trying to explain to someone who only eats vanilla ice cream that liking chocolate ice cream more doesn't mean I ONLY eat chocolate ice cream.

-1
Altruistic-Ad186•

Don't take it personally. Remember, you're in KiA, so you're getting an equal amount of normal people annoyed with the bullshit of modern-day political fiending pulling a violent yin-yang with the smug-anime-girl pfp ultra-autists trying their damndest to cover up that empty hole in their lives with the sensation of feeling a higher-intelligence over another human being for the simple act of gluing themselves to the bottom of a screen, keeping up with the subs of the latest cookie-cutter loli-voiced gook.

0
050607•

You think that's bad, I've noticed a lot of dubs have started using pronouns.

Crossdressing characters especially suddenly are referred to as "them/they" by characters, and it sounds fucking retarded in every dialogue.

I would be more annoyed if I wasn't getting my dubbed copies through the seven seas..

10
Neo_TechniDon't demand what you refuse to give.•

Crossdressing characters especially suddenly are referred to as "them/they" by characters, and it sounds fucking retarded in every dialogue.

I really fucking hate that

3
ShinePale•

it comes across less like "I've learned to respect you as an equal" and more like a closeted sex pest who wants to use feminism as a way to get into her leotard

You've gotta write what you know. You know?

6
TokenSockPuppetOPMy Country Tis of REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE•

If the writer turns out to be a sex pest I'm gonna scream.

3
NeVeRwAnTeDtObEhErE_•

Remember that there is seemingly no escape from this kind of propaganda because that is the entire point of their war on and takeover of media and fiction! No escape, even momentary from their "correct" narrative and "reality". Derangement and anger for everybody! Much easier to start a revolution that way.

5
NeVeRwAnTeDtObEhErE_•

Also gross!

1
Timemaster4732•

I kind of switch off when I hear people complain about Anime dubs. Just ignore them and watch the subs instead. That’s what Anime is for, and that’s why it’s so much better than anything western media has to offer, because it’s not western media.

4†
FellowFellow22•

Retreating to subs is giving up a battlefield and it isn't like the subs are untouched. They're just less touched.

The things we bitch about on here are the ones we, who don't speak a lick of Japanese, notice. It isn't like that's as deep as the changes go.

2
Timemaster4732•

It’s giving up a battlefield I never cared about in the first place, and not worth wasting precious time on to begin with. You can complain about dubs all you want, the best thing to do is just to ignore them and focus on the subs. The dubs themselves don’t affect the original content.

You mention that subs aren’t safe either, which is a valid point, but then fansubs are then an option, and if necessary, it is possible to learn Japanese if you’re really determined to enjoy Anime as it’s intended, and to just ignore all the annoying drama of the western side.

I’m not sure how I can explain this, but I don’t really care about stuff like this (I don’t support it, but I’m saying that it’s not worth anything more than an eye roll and then going back to watch the original sub), unless it actually affects the source itself, like when the CEO of Kadokawa once suggested that they themselves censor their material, only to be met with colossal and glorious backlash which resulted in immediate damage control and the CEO having to take a pay cut as punishment.

Attacks on the very source itself are the fights we should be having and preparing for, not wasting our time on garbage tier dubs that can easily be ignored and a fight that’s not worth the effort, when we could be focusing on more important things.

Also, when the localisers write this crap, they want you to get angry. They are looking for a reaction so that they can have even more excuses to attack you and to claim victim once you do, then that would give them more power to do this crap again. What I’m trying to say, is that neglect, apathy, and indifference can be much, much more damaging and harmful than outright hating or despising something.

I’m not ragging on you for doing what you think is right btw, if you feel like the sanctity of dubs is worth fighting for, then more power to you. I personally just can’t muster the time or energy to fight for something I never cared about in the first place and see as obsolete anyway, and isn’t even the main product I care about.

6
[deleted]•

Fan Subs

How many are those compared to fan translations of manga?

2
Timemaster4732•

They translate the material effectively and you don’t have to worry about blatant mistranslations for agenda. To be fair, most official subs are fine as well, it’s just a very small amount that may get mistranslated but that would be immediately noticed by the community.

Happy cake day btw.

2
Timemaster4732•

They translate the material effectively and you don’t have to worry about blatant mistranslations fir agenda. To be fair, most official subs are fine as well, it’s just a very small amount that may get mistranslated but that would be immediately noticed by the community.

1
[deleted]•

Fan Subs

How many are those compared to fan translations of manga?

1
8dev8•

Fuck, I honestly liked the first dub :(

2
TokenSockPuppetOPMy Country Tis of REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE•

Me too, especially since I actually can't stand Kotetsu's Japanese voice and Jake Martinez is probably my favorite Steven Blum role of all time.

1
CrippledHalfOrc•

Good grief this shit just gets worse and worse doesn’t it. Guess I’m not gonna be watching dubs anytime soon.

2
mnemosyne-0001archive bot•

Archive links for this discussion:

I am Mnemosyne reborn. Danger, Will Robinson! Danger! ^^^/r/botsrights

1
aleste2•

I'll check the Gogo Anime version.

1
TokenSockPuppetOPMy Country Tis of REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE•

I used a different app but it's the same. The thing that sucks though is T & B is one of the few anime I collect physically. Guess I'm gonna have to play the waiting game to get the DVDs used on eBay.

1
Romeomoon•

Pluto TV almost always runs the subs, which is the app where I first started watching it, even though the show is way older.

I'm pretty much sticking to subs from now on. I've been trying to learn Japanese, but it's going to be a while before I can really pick up on a full conversation. Still, even with just the little bit I know, I can tell when the subtitles have been changed from the original. Usually they're more in target, though.

1
DL-ETC•

Video clip, where?

1
qwer4790•

I found American dubbed version very scuffed in certain cases, I still can't get rid of the nightmare where they got a 40 years old smoker voice for Klee in genshin impact.

1
Yamayashi•

the simple thing to do is complain to the ones hiring these people, why can't we just get translations that are actually accurate? It's so weird that they take this opportunity to spread their messaging using someone elses work

1
[deleted]•

Ah so the dub is woke? Good. That's good. I don't watch dub. Much.

If the subtitles are not woke, good enough for me. Put it there in my bucket list, after I finish the hundreds of animes I still have in it.

1
Affectionate_Key634•

you're overthinking this like crazy💀

-32
Heyate76•

If recent history hasn't shown how successful entertainment outlets are being hijacked by people who's sole purpose in life is to spread "the message", then I'd agree with you.

23
Affectionate_Key634•

and this message is?

-7
DeusVermiculus•

"THE MESSAGE" is a referance to Critical Drinkers comedic interjection to describe the tendency of modern media company to push for social and political themes and memes in line with modern far left marxist demands in order to pander to them or simply add those things into the works because the person responsible actually believes them and pushes for them to be in there.

female characters one sidedly upstaging anyone male, removal of flaws of characters that have "protected" characteristics or having the world bend around itself to allow for the character to "shine" above all others.

James bond having his number given to a black female character that is more whitty, more capable and quicker?

A joke in "Kobayashi no Dragonmaido" about how a female character constantly overdoes her own sexualization (because she is a fertillity goddess) is dubbed into her complaining about the male gaze instead.

Fay in Cowboy beebop having her Femme Fatale character removed, to make a Woman that was sexy, intelligent and inventive enough to surprise her enemies and circumvent her lack of raw fighting strength... into another badass female fighter that is much less intelligent, but gets to make snarky comments about the male characters.

Galadriel being turned from a wise and mysterious queen into "female action hero with sword 91887" because we can not have female characters acting traditionally feminin.

. . .

shall i go on, or do you get the point?

3
Affectionate_Key634•

clearly you haven't seen Innocent or Alita😴

-1