Source
r/BPDlovedones•
KosherSyntax

How the psychologist in the JD-AH trial made me reflect on my past relationship and why it's hard to move on to new relationships

Learning about BPD

Backstory: The pwBPD for me is my ex-girlfriend. We were together for over 5 years and have now been split up for nearly as long.

I've been extremely happy to be out of my past relationship. It's been a big reason that I feel less stressed. Although our relationship never abusive (neither physical nor emotional), it absolutely started to weigh on me. It's only after I decided to end it that I could really reflect on the relationship and how toxic it was for me.

Now ever since I became single again, I have not felt the need for a relationship again. It's hard to explain but it feels like that need has been met for a lifetime. It's like there is no more life in the part of me that yearns for a real romantic relationship.

Now another reason why I have felt that way is because I feel that no other person lives up to what my ex was. This might seem counter-intuitive since it was a relationship that was toxic for me personally but let me explain.

Every day of our relationship felt like being on a high. It's like the honeymoon phase at the start of a relationship never ended. We clicked every step of the way. She felt like a 10/10 girlfriend for those moments. Of course those moments were not the only moments we had together. Whenever fights and other issues came up, it always ended up feeling like it was my mistake. I was to blame for everything that threw a wrench in our happiness. It's those moments that became too much to bear.

Whenever I talk and hit it off with new people, I tend to compare them to those extreme happy times. And no one is able to compare. No one is as funny, as interesting and all around as good as match for me as my ex.

So I came to the conclusion that my ex must've been the perfect person for me, except that she suffered from BPD and that, sadly, became too much. The bad moments were the BPD and the great moments were her underlying personality.

Now cue to the trial witness. And she is explaining my ex's behavior to a T. And then she mentions that people with BPD will be overly nice at the start. Mimicking your interests and setting themselves up to be a perfect person.

That hit me like a truck. It explains it completely. It explains why she felt like the perfect person. And it explains why no "real" person competes to them. Because other people have their own personalities and I am used to a personality that was tailored to digestible for me.

I'm not exactly sure what to do with this info though. It doesn't really change the fact that other people feel less interesting to me. I guess I just needed a place to dump my brain. If anyone reached this point in the post, thanks for listening to my story :)

Posted Apr 27, 2022, 11:32 AM UTC

11724
Fluffy_Little_FoxDated•

"Nobody else can match up to what being with them was like."

Because being with them is like the rush you would get from Skydiving out of a plane while high on drugs. But being with them is also like being in Fight Club.... (Guess the two humorous reasons why).

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JustGimmeSomeTruthDated•

So I'm hearing that, in other words, you're especially susceptible to mirroring and lovebombing, and this is your unconscious expectation of what love is supposed to feel like.

I definitely relate, and I think this is one of the main vulnerabilities that led us to end up in these relationships.

I think it's relatively normal and common to have this kind of expectation for relationships, just look at all the movies, songs, novels etc. that reflect this in our culture.

On the other hand, I get the sense that there is a limit there for most people where they're going to be weirded out by too much/too extreme lovebombing.

With dating I have experienced what you describe about that romantic part of you feeling dormant and like nothing will compare to your ex.

I'm not really sure what to do about it either, but what I'm hopeful for still is something in between the extreme lovebombing my exes did, and the total opposite of that which is I guess someone being almost indifferent or not showing much enthusiasm or interest.

This is proving very difficult for me to see (or find) that middle ground. If someone doesn't seem "all in" with me, I automatically interpret that as a lack of chemistry, or that they aren't interested in me at all etc. And vice versa, when I experience what feels like lovebombing or mirroring then it freaks me out and I see it as a red flag.

I do think the middle ground must be out there, and I try to set my own intention/expectation to match that idea. I feel like if I can understand what a healthy enthusiasm for a new person/relationship looks like, other people must be out there with the same understanding.

And what that looks like to me I guess is a kind of balance and reasonable kind of interest and attraction, with strong boundaries and without a sense of desperation (meaning, I can want and value a relationship without needing to be in one, and this lets me be able to walk away if a relationship isn't adding value to my life... It's a hard line to walk bc you have to value it but not so much that you'd stay in a toxic situation again).

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haskell_rulesDivorced•

I'm a few months out from hell and have been on a handful of dates.

In my area and demographic, it seems like a majority of women are looking for "something serious" "a real relationship" etc and want to jump right into daily "good morning" to "good night" all day texting rituals.

And I'm just sitting here thinking, can't we start with a cup of coffee? Continue to live independent lives while coming together for companionship and then going seperate ways? Save the texts and calls for sharing something exciting and not just narrating to each other our daily banal activities?

I am seeing someone right now that seems to be on the same page as me with that kind of thing. She seems to be a rarity. Having early conversations about our philosophy on independence as people was crucial in seperating the wheat from the chaff in the dating world.

But then if we don't text for a day or two I find myself starting to wonder if I've either been ghosted again or if the next text I get from her will be a "Fuck you, you don't even pay attention to me, we are DONE" text. But then one of us finally texts the other and it's just a "Hey I was thinking about you, when can we meet up again?" And everything is fine and normal. And that is weird after a BPD relationship. Really weird

That anxiety is partially because of the trauma I've been through, but also partially because that's just what the expectations are from a lot of people currently in the dating world. You have to expect to go through a lot of incompatible people that will either want more and more from you, or just straight up ghost you. It's part of the world we live in now, I think.

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JustGimmeSomeTruthDated•

I totally relate. However, I do actually want "a real relationship" so that's attractive to me on one level (don't get me wrong I like casual/FWB as well)... But, indeed, I don't want to jump right into some forced/artificial intimacy situation, or just going through the motions of a "real relationship" without any substance or time to build up to that (and, a real relationship for me now looks a lot different and it would need to be healthy and independent not toxic and codependent etc).

It's funny you mentioned sharing about banal activities... This was something that I grew pretty annoyed by with my ex. She felt this need to update me with the most boring explanations of her daily to-do lists and what she managed to get done and what was stressing her out etc.

Meanwhile, I'd be sending her interesting YouTube links or articles, songs or lyrics I found interesting, cool art I came across etc etc. and she'd just ignore all of it. I see now that her initial enthusiasm for that kind of sharing was just her mirroring/lovebombing.

I remember telling her I want my relationship to enrich my life, and that life is already stressful and mundane and that we have so much more to give each other as people than simply barking our boring daily routines at each other.

But she would literally ignore anything interesting that I'd send her or bring up as a topic etc (which, I started barely ever sending her anything since she never seemed to care) to instead compose a 10 minute text at the end of the day about the minute details of the errands she ran etc.

Like okay, I get that especially for women, they like to have a person to vent to and update about their daily struggles and small triumphs or whatever... But like, talk to your girlfriends about that stuff (of course she didn't really have any close friends to take on that role). Or at least balance it with some stuff that uplifts your reality out of the muck you know?

I think this speaks to just a fundamental difference between us too, in that she seemed to have no natural curiosity or appreciation for anything beyond the normal every day parts of life. Hardly aware of music, culture, cinema, art, had few actual hobbies or niche interests. Just kind of a boring person I guess.

But then if we don't text for a day or two I find myself starting to wonder if I've either been ghosted again or if the next text I get from her will be a "Fuck you, you don't even pay attention to me, we are DONE" text. But then one of us finally texts the other and it's just a "Hey I was thinking about you, when can we meet up again?" And everything is fine and normal. And that is weird after a BPD relationship. Really weird

Yep, absolutely experience this. It's partly bc of what you noted as well:

You have to expect to go through a lot of incompatible people that will either want more and more from you, or just straight up ghost you. It's part of the world we live in now, I think.

I really struggle with this because of how common ghosting seems to be (and because silent treatment/soft ghosting was my ex's number one weapon of choice). It becomes this stressful kind of roulette game where it feels very risky and vulnerable to not be bracing yourself for a ghosting/discard and curbing your expectations etc.

I find that it's created this secondary problem for me even when I'm getting matches and going on dates and seeing potential with people (vs dry spells). Bc now I feel this impulse to "hedge my bets" and not keep all my eggs in one basket.

The worst scenarios I've encountered so far with dating have been when I've had a lot of interest in someone or enthusiasm, and I've not pursued other possibilities, because I'm hoping this one will pan out... Only to have that person suddenly ghost or lose enthusiasm (or never had authentic intentions to begin with). It's just impossible to tell how sincere someone's interest is, especially because everyone's different and communicates differently, has different expectations and so on. I invested about 2 months into this one woman who was moving incredibly slowly, which I thought was just her being careful, but bullet dodged ultimately since she turned out to be manipulative and verbally abusive, but still I felt resentful of how much time I wasted and and other opportunities I missed because of her bullshit.

I now find myself in these situations sometimes where I'm trying to date multiple people at once and I'm not exclusive with any of them, and it's honestly stressful as hell for me.

Especially bc at a certain point if one of the situations moves towards something deeper or more official/solid, then I have this dilemma of whether or not to trust this one person and thus decide to call it off with the others... My fear is that if I commit to one choice and then it turns out badly, well now I've lost these other choices that may have been good.

Even on a micro level, I find myself having this dilemma when making plans. I'm a parent 50/50 time, so I don't have a ton of free time.... So I'll set aside a night for a date and then they cancel last minute, but meanwhile I've turned down a date with someone else for that same night when they asked me earlier, so I often end up "wasting" my free nights bc of how flaky people are with plans.

I just don't see any way around this problem though bc I agree it seems to be the world we live in now... It feels much too exhausting and risky and time consuming to go through investing months into a person only to have it not work out and then you have to start over again from scratch. So it makes sense to juggle a few options at once but that's exhausting in it's own way. It sucks.

There is also this illusion of abundance that the dating apps feed, especially for women, and so it seems like everyone's facing a similar dilemma.

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haskell_rulesDivorced•

There is also this illusion of abundance that the dating apps feed, especially for women

Women have a smorgasbord of options on dating apps while men go fishing all day and are lucky to get a few nibbles at the bait. That's not a sexist thing, it is backed by the data and numbers.

Compounding the problem is that many men are very disrespectful and aggressive, so women have learned that 1. It can be dangerous to let someone go in a nice way and it's better to just block and move on and 2. There is always another option to move on to.

It's systemically screwed up and can really affect people that aren't in tune with the dynamics of it all.

That being said, as long as you embrace the "numbers game", keep your standards high for your matches, and most importantly keep your standards high for yourself, I still find it to be a useful way to meet people that otherwise aren't going to be at a random bar or the local rock climbing gym.

Everything else you said tracks with my experience. Also co-parenting 50/50. And I have my own hobbies that take up my free time. So there's like 1-2 days a week that I want to go out with someone, and they aren't spontaneous/need to be planned.

I personally have instituted a 3 date rule. I call it after 3 dates, respectfully say it's not working out and move on if I have any apprehension. I'm past date 5 with the current one and wondering if it's time to reel in the other lines in the water. I think I might be at that point, and just be OK with being alone and starting fresh again if it doesnt work out. The game theory isn't exactly kind here.

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spronDated•

The "middle ground" is something that continuously needs to be very intentionally chosen in dating, a "fake it 'til you make it" kind of mindful approach as opposed to us continuously going for the ridiculous highs our perfectly-tailored exes provided us. No one will measure up to what they provided us, so we have to redefine what "love" means to us, so that it can be something truly healthy and collaborative, so that individuality is celebrated.

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JustGimmeSomeTruthDated•

Definitely. It's another one of those parallels with what I imagine recovery from addiction to hard drugs is like...

No one will measure up to what they provided us, so we have to redefine what "love" means to us, so that it can be something truly healthy and collaborative, so that individuality is celebrated.

Exactly. It's like we need to recalibrate our minds to not crave the extreme high, and to take on a more balanced longview of what we want and need in a healthy way.

It's a weird kind of thing to wrap your head around though, bc you have to be able to fully acknowledge this fact that you noted: nothing will actually ever compare. The high WAS a high. Losing that was losing something we valued, even if it was not good for us.

That it ultimately destroys you doesn't change the fact that it WAS alluring and seductive and pleasurable in a real way in the moment. It requires an active application of reason and perspective, so you realize that your higher self doesn't want that, even if your immediate gratification/needy/addicted self does indeed still "want" that and probably always will on some level. As you said, intentionality and a mindful approach are absolutely necessary to succeed in recalibration.

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ritorriFamily & Dated (not the same person obvs) •

As an ADHDer I am definitely susceptible to it. It’s not love bombing from us, it’s genuine passion and we think they’re just matching our energy 💀

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JustGimmeSomeTruthDated•

100% :/

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noidontlikesushiPost-breakup survivor•

I’m 5 months out after 5 years and feel like I’d be happy to never be in another relationship again. I wonder what it would be like talking to someone new. No one could possibly be as infatuated with me, shower me with gifts and tell me how amazing I am. I never even thought of that side of it. Also listening to the Johnny Depp trial where he had to hide in the bathroom to get away from her really hit home (no violence either but he would never leave me alone) all I can think is “this poor man”. No one can know what he’s been through unless they’ve been through it themselves.

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ged12345Dated•

You won't miss that rush when you find some stability. It only felt good in the moment, but like all moments (and gall stones), they pass.

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rastlosreisenderSeparated•

You need to rethink your approach entirely. It sounds like you are still chasing the highs - which are amazing initially, but they come at a steep steep price as we all here know, which are the lows, and they outweigh the highs by far. The highs -lovebombing/mirroring to the tee/idealization- are not sustainable. You need to (re-)learn that stability is good. Routines bordering on boredom are good. In evaluating a new partner, don’t compare someone sane to someone insane. It’s like comparing a race car that could blow up any time and injur/kill you to a stable sedan. You want to be in that Volvo.

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GameofPorcelainThronDated•

I remember seeing the news a while back about how Amber Heard was behaving and it all sounded so familiar. I was talking to some friends and one guy was defending her, saying Johnny Depp was a wife-beater, she's being smeared, etc. This guy already knew I was a DV victim at the hands of a BPD person, so I told him that I know what this pattern is, I bet she is BPD, etc. But he stood firm. Even now, he is posting things defending her on Facebook and it's so upsetting.

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thebigpunDated•

Fuckem

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[deleted]•

I don’t know what to say other than I completely agree with everything you’ve said. I do have a song for you to listen to which is bang on the money. It’s called Loud Places by Jamie xx (feat Romy). It’s so sad that this is where we all ended up.

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birdbirdwordMarried•

I’ve been staying away from following the trial.

I totally relate to you feeling that you don’t need a romantic relationship again, maybe for different reasons but I still relate. I am positive that if my husband and I are no longer together in the future, I will not get into another relationship. It absolutely baffles me that he worries about me cheating on him, since I am so resolute in my feelings on that.

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GohlgothaMarried•

Sadly, normal people don't give you same thrill as the crazies with BPD. It's sort of a package deal. It's like taking hard drugs - you won't experience anything else like that high, but it will also kill you if you keep using. The BPD wasn't the bad part and the good part the actual her. The BPD was her. BPD don't get "cured," because that's who they are. Instead, they have to learn how to control who they are through intense and intentional therapy which sadly rarely happens.

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Mehemme007Dated•

I think it's really just learning what a healthy relationship is compared to an unhealthy one. Healthy is not about mirroring the others behavior but for truly accepting them for who they are loving them nonetheless (for both sides).

I've learned to love that ppl are not my ex and that they are different than me. My ex was a facade - something unreal. I think we all want that idealized partner, the perfect one - but the sooner we slay that image from our mind there is a relief. And that is what leads to finding a truly wonderful partner - a real genuine human being who doesn't mirror but rather reflect you. Who we aren't on cloud 9 for a few days and hell for the rest - but rather someone we find repose in, comfort in. So it's not as intense but it's longer lasting and more peaceful.

I'm not the biggest Jordan Pederson fan but he spoke about the idealized image and how the sacrifice comes when we understand that that isn't real. Helpful advice for me https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1aY49YU8uBQ

Hope this doesn't sound confusing. Just try not to be too hard on yourself.

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GohlgothaMarried•

Peterson is great though. I wonder what he has to say about Cluster B

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Mehemme007Dated•

I've heard him talk about it. You should be able to find it on YouTube

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KnowsekrDivorced•

I literally said many of the same things in a post here recently, ill quote it:

 

Post Title: BPD people getting offended over Amber Heard’s diagnosis? Really lol?

The thing that makes me kinda upset is that they could be so nice at first. We could be so down at a point in our lives and they would come in with love bombing and it would make us feel good. We would then jump through some hoops and ignore some red flags because this one amazing person is making our life better!

That is until they decide at a random point in time to devalue you and throw you away.

In my case, it happened after 4-5 years

 

Its very likely that they were just "too good to be true", and thats actually what we were faced with. Do we set our expectations lower, because "too good to be true" may actually be a thing.... Or do we keep our expectations high, and now that we are experienced with BPD, can reject them before it gets to the same point.

I dont know what the right answer is.

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Conscious_Meaning676Dated•

Its because when it comes romantic love, we project our fantasies of what we want. BPDs are empty vessels able and willing to accept and accommodate our fantasies. People with stable personalities of their own do no such thing. The fantasy is based on what we didn't receive when we were young. Figure out what you didn't receive, grieve it, and the fantasy disappears. Easier said than done.

Edit - We only really can grieve loss. Since we didn't receive what we needed its not a loss. You have to reframe it into something you once had and did lose. Im still working on this so I can't explain it real good.

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