The Spirit Master - Want to play something new and unique? Look no further!
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reddit.comPosted Jun 22, 2022, 4:09 PM UTC
1.2K116
reddit.comThis looks really balanced.
Too balanced, actually. You tried way too hard to not make it overpowered, and ended up creating a lot of plainly terrible mechanics as a consequence.
I know it sounds a little harsh, but I need to be honest here: I freaking love the concept and even might use it myself, so I will be as nitpicky as I can on the changes I deem needed.
Jokes on you, I am mostly talking about buffs lol. As I said, it’s not broken by any means, quite the opposite: you overdid yourself on introducing balance measures.
So let’s begin:
My biggest and most immediate gripe is that you can’t move while controlling the spirit. And yes, I know this is surpassed after level 14, but I’m pretty sure the class was supposed to be playable before that lol.
Combined with the incredibly small limit of 30 feet that your spirit can go away from you as a maximum, this makes for a ridiculously wonky experience, and that’s not to say an outright frustrating one. Enemies with 40 feet of movement are immediately able to lock you away from them for two entire turns if they just decided to move away. This is plainly absurd.
It is entirely okay for the spirit to move by itself, just like it’s entirely okay for the spirit to use reactions by itself (like every other summon in the game).
Honestly? You could increase the core speed of the spirit to 60 feet, allow it to move without spending you own movement, increase the maximum distance they can go away from you to 300 feet and allow it to use reactions on it’s own.
Using reactions on their own, by the way, would make for a much smoother interaction with the absolutely fundamental ability Master’s call.
Do all of that and it would still be 100% okay. In fact, those are the changes I would make myself.
Also, it’s way easier to just write that: ”The spirit shares initiative with you and acts simultaneously with you, immediately acting after you command it to do something (no action required unless specified)”.
Moving, as an example, would not require any action, just a command. Same for taking reactions.
And of course, my wording isn’t perfect and may not fit your idea as a writer, but I think I managed to transmit the gist of the mechanics I’m going for.
My second gripe is the entire concentration system.
And dude, you can just remove that lol.
Your entire class shouldn’t be disabled by losing concentration. Even if you become incapacitated, it’s entirely fine to just add a bit that says: ”if you are incapacitated, then the summon acts independently and does it’s best to protect you”.
As it is now, this system is just an enormous and unnecessary nerf to the entire class. No main class feature should depend on concentration.
As a side note, you can make the spirit and the master share concentration for spells. Meaning that if either of you receive damage, the check will happen (and will use the save-bonus of whoever received the damage).
This would already be balanced enough while not being minimally broken at all.
My third (and last) gripe goes for the Perk System.
And what about it? Well, the fact that this system directly promotes the idea that you always should absolutely forget about one of your spirits and just build entirely on top of one of them. You were so aware of that that you even made a whole level feature that forces you to waste a perk on the useless one (which is bad design by itself).
Dude, either assume that this class was made for you to choose a single spirit (since they’re the literal subclasses here) or rework the entire system so the spirits will be equally buffed at all times.
All in all, I think it’s much easier for you to just forget about having two spirits at all. This subclass was clearly designed as a pet-subclass, not as a Pokemon-style one which gives you have a lot of options.
Of course, that also means that all the levels that directly address the issues I’m talking about (such as 3, 10 and 14) would have to be replaced. But I mean, you can now go wild with those levels lol. The possibilities are infinite.
As a last note, the capstone is really weak as well, so you could probably buff that a lot.
And as the true ending note…
I might as well be talking a lot of crap because I plainly didn’t get one thing.
Uh, you are not able to cast ninth level spells with this class, right? I was really confused by how spellcasting worked here and kinda just assumed 5th level was the max.
Because if this thing is a Full Caster as well…
Then oh well, balance was never a thing and I should have been quiet from the start. You can’t possibly be creating a class that is stronger than most Martials, more versatile than Rogues, more customisable than Warlocks and also a full caster who eventually becomes physically unable to cast any spell lower than fifth level, right…?
All at once…?
Damn, I only got it now after writing this entire thing…
…
Okay, yeah, I’m not giving up, so I will just say that the spellcasting part of this really requires a major rework.
Because as it is now, you will eventually have 6 fifth level slots plus the higher ones.
Which is essentially ”Warlock but stronger”.
I kinda just now finally understood that this entire class is basically just ”Warlock but ten times stronger”.
Yeah, I also kinda get why you did all of those changes to hold it back now, but still, you held it back so much that it became not fun. With that being said, if you truly let lose, then this monstrosity of a spell-caster happens.
Damn, this is a hard one.
I feel like I had 10 years worth of character development while writing this.
42
First off, thank you so much for your detailed feedback. :)
I'm thrilled to hear that you like the concept!
My biggest and most immediate gripe is that you can’t move while controlling the spirit. And yes, I know this is surpassed after level 14, but I’m pretty sure the class was supposed to be playable before that lol.
Combined with the incredibly small limit of 30 feet that your spirit can go away from you as a maximum, this makes for a ridiculously wonky experience, and that’s not to say an outright frustrating one. Enemies with 40 feet of movement are immediately able to lock you away from them for two entire turns if they just decided to move away. This is plainly absurd.
If both SM and manifestation could move on the same turn, you could effectively reach enemies that are 65 feet away by moving, summinging (5ft) and then having the manifestation move and attack. I feel that this would give the SM an unfair advantage over melee martial classes. Also, being somewhat low-ranged is meant to be one of the classes' limitations and part of its mechanical identity (similar to how it is for a barbarian for example).
The somewhat short leash of 30 feet also ensures that the SM will be within the enemy's threat range most of the time, so using Master's call remains an important option to consider at all times.
Perks like Roamer, Flight, Exotic Form, and Fey Step can help in making one of your spirits more useful at longer ranges or in situations where the quickest path is blocked. Also keep in mind that dismissing and re-summoning is always an option at the start of your turn.
Crucially, the abilities manifestations get at level 3 affect the space around them when summoned. This means the SM is rewarded for moving right next to enemies to manifest a spirit, but this offensive strategy is linked with a greater threat of being attacked and overwhelmed. Ideally, in some situations it would be wise for the SM to stay back and send a manifestation forward while in others it may be worthwhile for the SM to charge forth and manifest aggressively. Not being able to move both in the same turn means you could move forward and summon, then use your next move to either reposition the manifestation or to move the SM to relative safety.
As you can see, all of this is in service of my goal of making every choice as interesting and situational as possible. I can see how it can seem clunky at first, but hope that more interesting gameplay (more than) makes up for it.
the concentration system:
And dude, you can just remove that lol.
Your entire class shouldn’t be disabled by losing concentration. Even if you become incapacitated, it’s entirely fine to just add a bit that says: ”if you are incapacitated, then the summon acts independently and does it’s best to protect you”.
As it is now, this system is just an enormous and unnecessary nerf to the entire class. No main class feature should depend on concentration.
Losing concentration is not the end of the world for the SM. It just forces them to either suffer disadvantage or to switch to their other spirit. It also emphasizes the importance of protecting your SM with your manifestation (as only direct damage to the SM threatens their concentration).
Concentration spells ending when you dismiss the spirit that cast it also promotes decision making. Should you dismiss your fiendish spirit while its spell is still going on? Your other spirit could do more with its action, but that spell might be worth holding on to as well.
Perk System
this system directly promotes the idea that you always should absolutely forget about one of your spirits and just build entirely on top of one of them. You were so aware of that that you even made a whole level feature that forces you to waste a perk on the useless one (which is bad design by itself).
Just reading this cracked me up. :)
Of course you have a point. It seems obvious to invest all resources into a single spirit, right? However, being designed around promoting interesting decision making, it's not actually ideal to neglect one of your spirit - at least that's my intention! Here's why:
- The spell list of each spirit is very limited. Also, they can only learn each spell once - and consequently only use it once per long rest. Both of these facts are crucially important! Dumping all spells learned into the same spirit will not do you any good. E.g. an elemtal spirit only has 2 4th level spells it can possibly learn on its list - dumping more spells into it at that point means the other spells will have to be lower level. Splitting up spells between spirits is more rewarding, as you get a bigger spell selection and you get to pick more high-level spells overall.
- Both of your spirits have at least 2 perks by level 3 and both have 1 spell. This means both are viable in combat at this point and only using one would mean not using half of your spells each day.
- Losing concentration will force you to switch every now and again, punishing you a bit if you only invested in a single spirit.
- Hidden potential once again promotes developing and using both spirits. I don't see this as bad design necessarily, but I concede that it may feel a bit heavy-handed.
Having two spirits, pondering how to specialize them in different ways, when to use which etc. feels much more interesting to me than if the SM only had a single one where the choice of perks was mostly predetermined (as we see with a pact fo the blade warlock for example).
That being said, I think its fun to have a favorite spirit and to shower it with goodies - much like you'd give the great TM to your already overleveled charizard in pokemon. :)
In any case, the class features are set up to make focusing a lot on a single spirit possible, with both obvious benefits and obvious (opportunity) costs.
As a last note, the capstone is really weak as well, so you could probably buff that a lot.
Summoning at range means you can utilize the 3rd level features with much less risk. Together with the other benefits, I believe the capstone is apetizing enough. What change would you suggest?
Because if this thing is a Full Caster as well…
Then oh well, balance was never a thing and I should have been quiet from the start. You can’t possibly be creating a class that is both stronger than Martials, more versatile than Rogues, more customisable than Warlocks and also a full caster who eventually becomes physically unable to cast any spell lower than fifth level, right…?
The spellcasting works a lot like that of a warlock. At high levels, you have several spells of up to 5th level and one casting of 6th, 7th, etc.. The SM has more spells available than the Warlock, but ...
- They only recharge on a long rest
- They are split among different spirits (forcing you to switch between them and possibly to one that's less useful at the time)
- While the spells can be up to 5th level, your spirits' spell list doesn't really allow for that. A high level djinni warlock can cast cone of cold 5 times with their regular spell slots - or something else from their spells known, depending on what's best in the situation. A SM would have access to something like 1x flame stirke, 1x immolation, 1x wall of fire, 1x dispel magic (5th) and 1x modify memory.
Overall, warlocks are more effective and adaptable spellcasters, while SMs need to adjust their rigid loadout on each level up. In exchange SMs have quite powerful subclass features and (situationally) their defenses are better than that of a warlock.
The SM is meant to start out as a capable indirect martial character who later turns into a brainy caster that rewards planning and tactics. Past level 2-3, a manifestation's damage output can be good, but never match an actual martials, while falling off later on when you need to use spells well to give you an edge.
I feel like I had 10 years worth of character development while writing this.
Thank you once again for taking the time!! :)
I'd highly suggest that you check out the form-fillable SM sheet and simply try out building spirits from level 1 and go up from there. I think you'll have a good time!
24
So to make sure i got it right, if both your spirits have a fifth lvl spell both can cast both once a long rest, but if both your spirits have say, a sixth lvl spell you can only cast one of them a long rest,
if not I'd love to find out how it works properly.
3
Basically, every manifestation can use each spell it knows once per day. :)Up to 5th level, they use max level slots for each casting - exactly like a warlock.
However, I'm currently reworking it to be a bit simpler. I'll soon post an updated version with many changes that should make things both easier to understand and more streamlined in play.
Edit: By the way, I'm removing or reworking many of the "unfun" limitations mentioned above . The next step will be to make sure that the SM doesn't become "Warlock but stronger". Put simply - I took the feedback of u/Ishigami-the-Kami very seriously! :)
2
I was hyper confused by the spell casting as well. Honestly just having the perk system all together and fleshing out that part of it rather than having ANOTHER spell caster (we honestly need fun weird martials), with the whole two spirit thing too its maybe a bit much.
With the fact that there are only a couple types of spirit, a single master will be able to dabble in most of what the class has to offer and might blend together with other masters
Edit: I love the idea for this class super duper much, but it just feels way too much to deal with, with how it is atm, with perks AND weird spell casting, and two spirits
10
From the feedback I got, I'm already working on making the spellcasting slightly less weird. I hope you'll give it another chance then! :)
I wouldn't be worried about variety at all tbh. A fiend/fey combo will have very different set of options than a fiend/elemental one - and even here the difference between the different elements are striking. Overall, I'd worry a lot more about two rangers, monks, rogues etc. feeling too similar than with two Spirit Masters.
2
Ahh a fellow spirit crafter. Good work my dude!
I had thought about taking my class in a similar direction. Spirit work seems like the DND method for the "summoner" problem. And there's two way if going about it.
You chose the one big summon route while I chose the many summons route. Either way, it's looking very good from the quick skim and I'll give it a full read when I have a chance.
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I'm looking forward to your feedback!
At its very core, this class has not one, but two big summons - but you can only ever have one out at a time!
How to specialize them, where to position them, when to use which one, how to manage their seperate resources etc. are meant to be the questions on the player's mind - all of which should be very distinct from the questions other classes ask themselves!
13
And it looks plain lovely
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Not a Jojo reference
19
The Spirit Master is not meant to emulate a stand-user necessarily, but if you wanted to play one, you have a lot of ways of making that happen with this class! ;)
27
Wonderful to hear
5
Love this! Reminds me of the summoner from Pathfinder and the roboticist from Spaceships and Starwyrms.
13
I've been working on making a summoner-type class for a while, and this does a wonderful job at handling some of the problems I found.
10
Thanks!! The original impetus for making this class was actually seeing another homebrew a few years ago and thinking "There has to be a better way!". :)
11
First off—Fantastic work. I absolutely love the theme, flavor, and mechanical depth of this class, and look forward to rolling a SM in a coming campaign!
That said, I would really like a MUCH clearer chart or explanation of how the spell casting works. I can see your intention, and read a bit in the comments where you clarified some things, but it’s still a little confusing and I think a visual aid and some light reworking would help.
The wording in the Spellcasting explanation REALLY lost me—I even think something similar to how some of the spellcasting Warlock Invocations work would be a better alternative.
“Your Manifestation may cast a known spell by expending a Spirit Spell Slot. It may not cast the same known spell again until you complete a long rest.”
The Manifestation having a limited number of static-level Spell Slots that it can expend on their known spells would also probably be a good, quick and dirty solution to a lot of issues. Some other classes/monsters/magic items also interact with spell slots, so I feel this would mesh more smoothly with some existing 5e mechanics and allow the SM to take advantage of magic items —such as a Pearl of Power—like other casters!
To make sure it follows your design intention with 2 Manifestations without complication:
“Your Manifestation has a number of spell slots equal to the number of spells it knows.”
This way, you don’t get any wonky unusable spell slots on an odd level when dividing known spells between your Manifestations, and still get all the versatility in your intention with clear, more DM-friendly wording.
Beyond level 5 spells, I think level 6+ spells being functionally identical to Mystic Arcanum and resetting on a long rest economy is a-ok.
After writing this, I would like to say I can very clearly see your intention to make their casting very Warlock-Adjacent, but it is VERY confusing without a clear visual aid or chart, and I still think that a light rework or rewording in a (possible) future update would benefit the class a lot in the long run.
Edit: “number of spells it knows” working would depend on the 6+ level spells being defined as a separate class feature instead of being part of the spell casting feature. I think adding a Mystic Arcanum-flavored class feature at 11 and having spells known remain the same after 10 would be a simple way for it to work.
10
“Your Manifestation may cast a known spell by expending a Spirit Spell Slot. It may not cast the same known spell again until you complete a long rest.”
“Your Manifestation has a number of spell slots equal to the number of spells it knows.”
I was worried that spell slots would imply the flexibility theiy usually come with for other classes. Your point is well taken and your wording is really concise. I'll certainly put this feedback to good use!
EDIT: The level 6+ spells were actually categorized differently before ("lesser powers" vs. "greater powers"), but I homogenized the naming to simplify things and introduce less terms the reader needs to learn. There's definitely still room for improvement though!
3
This is an impressive amount of work. My wife really loves the flavor.
A lot of moving pieces to this that needed to be balanced and juggled and it came out great.
5
Well, I'm definitely not capable of providing proper feedback, but it does look quite cool. It does indeed appear to be streamlined and emergently-complex, as it should be - but also you may have sacrificed a little too much of the companion's independence. At first glance, it looks like it's little more that a projection of yourself.
Limiting the flavor to spirits has its advantages, it definitely allows for a few really cool abilities. I definitely like how the spellcasting works. However, playing something akin to a more mundane Beastmaster (or another type of adventurer with companion) becomes a stretch.
Honestly, I maintain my opinion that the Bonder/Spirit Master/whatever is best achieved as a "horizontal class" - a set of subclasses for each existing class (perhaps sharing certain abilities/rules), instead of a class on it own.
5
The lack of independence is really not a bug. It's a feature! :D
I wanted this to feel different from a typical "summoner", where you have your semi-strong caster and your semi-strong summon, taking up two turns each round and all that.
The theme of the Spirit Master really dictated the mechanics. The SM and their manifestation should feel more like a single entity rather than two. When you first bond with a spirit, it may be nothing more than a restless collection of desires and ideals or the faint remains of a lost soul. Only through the SM can it take shape - and even when it does, its movements still only mirror their master's. Your spirits growing in consciousnes as you level up is at the heart of the class' theme, which admitedly is kind of subtle. You can see it in how fiendish spirits can begin slowly taking over their masters at higher levels; or how the virtue of a celestial spirit only manifests mechanically later on. With a fey spirit, you might find yourself ending up becoming detached from human values and accepted in the feywild as a fey yourself, etc.
A whole character arc could be built upon the premise of helping an angel regain its consciousness and former glory or about how you are struggling to maintain full control over a fiend that you've been nurturing for selfish reasons. Basically, I really tried going all-in on the flavor of the spirits. I hope that makes sense... :)
7
Question on Shared Life: if an AoE heal goes off, are you as the Spirit Master intended to double-heal? Because as written, you share the same hit points but are still separate entities. So if, say, your friendly local Cleric casts Mass Healing Word and chose both the Spirit Master and the Manifestation as two of the six creatures to heal, the SM would effectively get twice the benefit.
Same deal for Mass Cure Wounds, Prayer of Healing, any Twinned Spell from a Divine Soul Sorcerer, and I'm sure probably one or two others I'm forgetting...
5
Funny that you ask - I've been grappling with this for the longest time! :D
Previously, there were complex rules in place that would make it so that no single effect could heal or harm a spirit master twice and the manifestation would be affected instead of the SM based on its position. This ended up being incredibly convoluted and complicated - so much so that a seperate document was in place just to guide DMs on how to resolve certain situations. There were complex rules for transferring spell effects and conditions as well...
Now, manifestations simply have the Flicker ability and area attacks affect the SM normally, which both saved pages of text AND should lead to much more fluid gameplay with no slow-downs.
Yes, mass healing word can effectively heal a spirit master twice, but the imbalance that could stem from that are very minimal. It would basically require the SM to be missing a lot of HP to even have an effect and for the caster to have no one else they'd rather heal. Even if those stars align, the worst thing that can happen is that the players get to feel clever for a moment. ;)
Considering that a barbarian gets resistance to most damage, healing effects could also be considered to be twice as effective on them. Overall, I don't mind this little advantage on the SM, as they have several exceptional weaknesses as well (such as enemies with multiple attacks, long range or the capactity to break concentration or impose blindness).
6
Totally fair! Just wanted to see if it was intentional or not. And I agree with all the points you make. Really want to try this out in my next RP-heavy game
5
Awesome work is this the final release or are there possibly updates?
4
This is a tried and tested version that anyone can pick up and bring to their table!
However, I'm very much open for feedback and eager to make further improvements!
The only thing I want to stay away from is adding more spirit types and too many new perks. I'd rather improve what's already there than to bloat the class with too many features.
5
This looks AWESOME!! As someone who’s new getting into D&D, I can’t wait to try this one out!!
4
I'm super excited to hear that!
It would be awesome if you could give me some feedback on your play experience later! :)
5
Will do!! I’ll come back when I finally get the chance to use one!! I actually already created one lol
2
Any chance add this to FoundryVTT ??
4
I'd have to buy FoundryVTT first and figure out how create custom classes there, but if a lot of people would like to use the class there, then I'll certainly look into it!
3
This is incredibly damn cool. Fantastic job on all of this. I think things have already been said before, but I think the concentration is a bit of an issue. I don't think the concentration fits well mechanically or thematically. A similar mechanic could be introduced to emulate it in a similar way, but I would border on the side of "whenever the spirit's hit points are reduced to below half for the first time, the Spirit is weakened until the end of your next turn" or something like that, I don't wanna roll CCs every turn!
I also have two ideas to solve the movement issue, because I agree with the other using claiming that sacrificing your movement is necessary is...not good, fluid, fun, or necessary! First idea: you can sacrifice any number of feet of your own movement to allow the Spirit to move that many feet. This allows you to chop up the movement as you choose without adding extra movement. Keep the 30 foot leash or say 60 feet. The other idea: what if you can always move as normal, but immediately before or after taking its action, the Spirit can move to any space within 15 feet of you. If you ever move more than 15 feet away from the Spirit, it moves to the nearest unoccupied space within 15 feet of you. This could be a bit more complicated but provides the smoothest movement in my opinion!
Again, great job with this awesome work! And if you're interested in a VERY different take on a spiritualist class, take a look at my profile, haha!
4
Thank you for your kind words! :)
I think the concentration is a bit of an issue. I don't think the concentration fits well mechanically or thematically. A similar mechanic could be introduced to emulate it in a similar way, but I would border on the side of "whenever the spirit's hit points are reduced to below half for the first time, the Spirit is weakened until the end of your next turn" or something like that, I don't wanna roll CCs every turn!
Ideally, you'd put your enemies in a situation where they are inclined to attack your manifestation (e.g. because they would trigger opportunity attacks from your spirit and other PCs by moving up to you to hit you).
Failing that, you can use Master's Call in time for your manifestation to be by your side to protect you. By drawing attacks away from you via Guardian Spirit, your concentration is safeguarded.
Remember: Dealing damage to a manifestation does not threaten the SM's concentration - only direct damage does. This can even be turned into an advantage when it comes to manifestations casting concentration spells. The spell will remain in effect, even if the manifestation gets hit - only attacking the spirit master or forcing them to switch spirits can accoplish this!
I can see your point, but I personally like concentration as an achilles heel for the SM. Much like a fighter may want to pick up a feat to fix their WIS save, a SM may be inclined to pick up warcaster, lucky or resilient constitution to shore up that weakness - or they could improve the CON and AC of a manifestation to do so!
I also have two ideas to solve the movement issue, because I agree with the other using claiming that sacrificing your movement is necessary is...not good, fluid, fun, or necessary!
I think you are on to something here. The way movement works for the SM has been critizised during playtesting before.
First idea: you can sacrifice any number of feet of your own movement to allow the Spirit to move that many feet. This allows you to chop up the movement as you choose without adding extra movement.
You're 100% correct. There's no good reason why the SM's movement rules should be this rigid, so I'll make sure to implement this change. I want to gather some more feedback first though, so that I can fix all remaining major problems in one go. :)
Again, great job with this awesome work! And if you're interested in a VERY different take on a spiritualist class, take a look at my profile, haha!
I'm definitely checking it out!
7
Love the class.. had one question for you... What would you recommend for the alternate starting gold instead of starting equipment?
4
3d4 x 10 gp (similar to a sorcerer) would feel right, as a Spirit Master needs very little equipment to be effective early on. They should always be able to buy a scholar's pack / adventurer's pack and a leather armor at the very least.
3
This looks really cool! I've been brewing up something adjacent for a bit--rather than summon separate spirits, you beckon spirits to augment your form. I'll have to playtest this a bit before I offer it up for my players, but it looks interesting!
3
Super cool class! Is there a specific spell list for it?
3
Absolutely! In fact every spirit type has its own little list.
If you want to get the most out of this class, you'd do well to cherry-pick the best options out of both of your spirits' lists and keep upgrading each time you level up!
You can find the full class document here!
I should have made it clearer somehow that the preview at the top doesn't include all the pages...
5
Sharing HP with the summon and having your actions limited to use it with said summon makes this class go from "fun" to "meh"
3
Sharing HP with the summon and having your actions limited to use it with said summon makes this class go from "fun" to "meh"
In earlier design stages, each spirit had a seperate HP pool, but the concept of having 2 spirits that you can switch between just didn't work well with that. Either they would be wiped out very quickly (which would sabotage the feeling of having powerful summons) or the overall effective HP of the class would become much higher than even that of a raging barbarian or moon druid. Shared HP seems like an optimal solution to me and also happens to make the Spirit Master more mechanically distinct.
6
I mean, when I think of a summoner, I'd like to thinks as Skyrim conjuration only. Having 2 atronach fighting while I use my conjured bow to also deal damage while each summon work independently.
I think that's the most fun and impressive way to play a summoner. Each creature with their action and health pool.
That's my concept.
I'm not by any means telling you how to design your custom class, to clarify
3
Playing a druid, wizard or ranger and casting summon elemental will give you exactly that. Covering the very same base would be redundant, right?
With the Spirit Master, I tried to provide people with something decidedly different that would lend itself well to telling new stories and evoking new roleplay situations.
Conjuring an elemental by reciting a spell you learned at an academy is a very different kind of deal than secretely harboring a fire spirit you bonded with to survive when the old church burned down. Now the villagers give you strange looks for being the only survivor and a voice inside urges you to burn the rest of the village down as well. It's very easy to continue that story, right? Or to come up with something wildly different outside of the norm of the vanilla classes. That's what I like so much about the Spirit Master's theme! :)
4
Just what I needed, thank you. This looks superb on every level, well done!!
3
Thank you very much!!
If you get a chance to play the Spirit Master, please let me know how it went!
3
This class has been in the works for a long time and after countless iterations and lots of playtesting, it is finally ready for you!
Features:
Turns taking longer than everyone else's? Skewed action economy? Hogging all the spotlight in combat? The Spirit Master does none of that!
Explore new dramatic themes that weren't possible before. The Spirit Master enables completely new stories to come to life in your world!
Contribute meaningfully both inside and outside of combat - but without overshadowing the original classes!
Whether in combat or when leveling up - the Spirit Master is designed to make each decision you take as interesting as possible. All without slowing down the flow of your game!
The options of making each of your spirits unique go far beyond mere combat abilities!
Easily keep track of your spirits' appearance, stats, abilities, features - and much more!
Due to reddit's limitations, only a sneak peek is displayed above.
You can find the full class & character sheet supplement here on Google Drive!
If you have any feedback, suggestions or balance concerns, I'd be happy to tackle them.
Reading through and considering a whole new class can be daunting, but I promise you that this one is certainly worth your time!
EDIT: As per request, I've exchanged the Spirit Master PDF on Google Drive with a version that displays individual pages (rather than double pages) to help with readability!
EDIT 2: Based on the feedback so far, I'll get to work fixing the following:
(This has been the first complaint since early testing - time fix it!)
(The current system is still too complicated and possibly too rigid.)
(Attacks are based on manifestation's STR and the Spirit Master's PB - this is currently not sufficiently explicit.)
(This is a "legacy" limitation that has no place in the current version!)
Feel free to hit me with any suggestions or concerns you may have and I'll get right to them!
> Minimum complexity
> Did not fit in Reddit's limit
^(Don't worry, I'm still gonna read it though)
Edit: please upload a normal PDF though, the two-page format is horribly hard to read
Fair enough! xD
The complexity is indeed waaaayyy down from when this class was first conceived. It needed a seperate FAQ-style document to explain all the mechanical interactions at one point, but considerable strides were made to simplify things as much as possible. By now, it feels incredibly streamlined to me, but I'd be keen to hear how we could make it even more straightforward!
A lot of effort went into reworking the wording as well. Making everything as concise as humanly possible and respecting the reader's time has been a core priority for me.
Yeah, just kidding, few classes fully fit into 20 pages. Do give us a normal PDF please
The single-paged PDF is now available!
Aye, sir. I'm working on it now!
For casters, you may well be right. If they had to list all their sub/class options alongside their spells within the class it'd be quite long
If your familiar takes damage does that cause you to roll to avoid losing concentration? Also qhat is the benefit of having an attack his a familiar besides you using their special action protection action, is it just to acoid concentration being broken, or is it more of a way to replace your ac with the summons ac?
I think you got the right idea on all accounts! :)
Only damage dealt directly to the SM forces them to save for concentration. Damage sustained by a manifestation does not. I highlighted this fact in particular under "Shared Life".
The AC of a SM will generally be quite low - and particularly so while they are concentrating on a manifestation (which, during combat, will be most of the time). Manifestations have a good AC to start with and can be customized to excel in a defensive role. E.g. you could increase CON and DEX and pick perks like Agile or Haughty. There's a good chance that Guardian Spirit will turn a hit against the SM into a miss against a manifestation - and even if the attack still hits, at least your concentration is protected.