Don't pay to 'qualify' with multiple handguns

Discussion / Off-topic

I've been seeing a few places that are advertising new classes for ccw quals which have a note that goes something like this "$100 class, plus $50 for each additional handgun".

Despite the weird wording on the application, the permit covers any handgun you legally own, see here:

" a. Scope and duration of authority. Any person who holds a valid permit to carry a handgun issued pursuant to this section shall be authorized to carry a handgun in all parts of this State, except as prohibited by section 2C:39-5e. One permit shall be sufficient for all handguns owned by the holder thereof, but the permit shall apply only to a handgun carried by the actual and legal holder of the permit."

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2013/title-2c/section-2c-58-4/

My guess is NJSP just didn't want you to qualify with a race gun and then carry something that's harder to shoot, but im speculating at that point.

Posted Jun 29, 2022, 7:51 PM UTC

6145
kejari89•

From what I've read from NJSP, you need to bring your own gun to the training qualification and the instructor must certify the gun you "intend to carry" by making note of the serial, the caliber, and make and model. BUT once you get the permit you can carry any pistol that you legally own.

NJSP Instructions for Permit to Carry Handgun: https://nj.gov/njsp/firearms/pdf/NJSP_WEBSITE_REVISION_FOR_PTC.pdf

​

Just remember though: Magazines holding 10+ rounds are still illegal in New Jersey! And also are hollow point rounds! Despite being the best for self-defense, they remain only legal in your home and to and from the range. There is no notation in the law that says that having a handgun carry permit alleviates that.

18
Mc_Swisschester•

Hornady Criticals are the way

20
Vitalian2184•

Hey what’s the difference between critical duty and critical defense?

4
tactistuHudson•

Critical Duty is meant for full length barrels, while Critical Defense can be used in shorter barrels (e.g., 3" in barrels). But in practicality you can use either or both. The Critical Duty is meant to penetrate barriers such as auto glass, etc.

6
DeaddyRuxpin•

I think it was actually on their web site that I found the answer. If I recall correctly the critical duty is a “stronger” round that it intended to penetrate before expanding and the defense is a “weaker” round intended to expand immediately on contact and not penetrate.

The idea was for home defense you don’t want a round going thru the person, or a wall, and hitting an unintended target. Whereas the duty version is geared towards police who very well may want or need to fire thru something to get to the target.

3
EmbracedByLeaves•

I've noticed that the duty's have a stronger crimp/sealant. They don't move when being loaded unloaded a ton. Defense seem to get setback quite a bit.

1
tactistuHudson•

I just want to note that this is NJSP's guidance but does not follow the law to the letter as it is currently written. Technically you should be OK with a NRA Basic Pistol course in the last 6 months but only time will tell what local departments accept what.

5
Corse46•

Who is actually “accepting” the course you take? Is it NJSP, or your local PD?

2
tactistuHudson•

It's local PD, with guidance from AG. If you don't have local PD, you have to apply with NJSP which complicates things a bit as their guidance for what qualifies as "qualification" seems to implicate a certification letter with serial numbers, etc. However, this is not aligned to NJ statues and will probably be changed (NJSP) at some point once challenged.

1
TaskMaster1942OP•

First part is what's being discussed, second is a given

2
Cant-think-of-a-namOcean•

Thats the part that confused me. Lets say down the road you get another gun and wanna use that as your ccw would you have to go thru this training/process all over again?

12
EmbracedByLeaves•

Or shoot the qual with a .22 conversion and then plop the reg barrel back in after.

Lol imagine doing this with a Shadow 2 and Kadet kit.

5
tommy3rd•

damn I should've bought that sig P250 back then.😀
I'm sure there are others with the conversion kits.

1
quicksilverbond•

Puts away hellcat, pulls out Walther ppq q5 match.

11
JJ_JJ_JJ_JJTier-1 contributor•

Typical NJ double speak

"One permit shall be sufficient for all handguns owned by the holder thereof, but the permit shall apply only to a handgun carried by the actual and legal holder of the permit."

So does that mean Im only allowed to carry one gun for the life of the permit?, or is the permit valid for any one of my guns that I choose to carry that day?

7
WeirdSysAdmin•

Applies to all handguns owned by person that is certified by the permit.

But.

Only counts if the person that is on the certification is carrying the gun.

That’s how it reads to me. The phrasing is there so you can’t carry guns owned by someone else as far as I can tell.

8
RageEye•

Yeah it just means the permit is not transferable as I’m reading it.

2
Literaturefans•

Is there a way to get a certification for guns I already own? I lost the paperwork many moons ago.

2
Verum14•

I believe I read somewhere that you can get a notarized doc saying you own it as well, although I don’t have the source for that rn.

Might be easier to just call and ask for a copy of your registration or something. I haven’t been in that position tho.

1
aerostatic9000•

More up to date documentation and directly from horse's mouth:

https://lis.njleg.state.nj.us/nxt/gateway.dll?f=templates&fn=default.htm&vid=Publish:10.1048/Enu

"One permit shall be sufficient for all handguns owned by the holder thereof, but the permit shall apply only to a handgun carried by the actual and legal holder of the permit."

However further down:

"The court may at its discretion issue a limited-type permit which would restrict the applicant as to the types of handguns he may carry and where and for what purposes the handguns may be carried. At the time of issuance, the applicant shall pay to the county clerk of the county where the permit was issued a permit fee of $20."

The documentation is certainly not in line with the instructions sent out by NJSP, notice the extra $20 fee to the county clerk, as well as the "justifiable need" not being updated.

Found a post from couple months back of an NJ CCW permit, just the front side: https://i.redd.it/ofurzn8o99381.jpg

Just redirects to the same statute.

TLDR: Wait or ask your local PD/NJSP. Otherwise maybe the permits themselves say something about this.

5
drillbit7•

"The court may at its discretion issue a limited-type permit which would restrict the applicant as to the types of handguns he may carry and where and for what purposes the handguns may be carried. At the time of issuance, the applicant shall pay to the county clerk of the county where the permit was issued a permit fee of $20."

Might be one of those things for where the security company's insurance carrier insisted on only .38 revolvers, the license could be restricted to .38s just to keep the legal departments happy.

2
Vitalian2184•

I do find it odd that one has to qualify with multiple hand guns to be honest. For me its not really an issue but I feel like they are just trying to make things as difficult as possible. Truthfully I'm surprised the AG actually amended the "justifable need" clause.

5
Literaturefans•

I all fairness he didn't amend it. The Supreme Court did and AG had no choice.

7
jerkyfarts556•

Good catch guys, I hope it works in our favor.

2
ChallyRT17Bergen•

Section D: “The court may at its discretion issue a limited-type permit which would restrict the applicant as to the types of handguns he may carry”

Typical NJ being nondescript

2
TaskMaster1942OP•

Yes but doesn't apply

2
NJCZSIGSHOTGUNLOVERUnion•

I’m going to bring my CZ TSO for qualification. It’s Finna be a Breeze!!!

2
Longjumping_Jello846Burlington•

Tpsfx for me

1
Mikei233•

Thank you for this. Now don't have to rush to find the right gun since almost everything I own is full size. I'll just use my ltt beretta 92. It seems you don't even have to buy a concealment holster for most of these classes. Makes sense as you can say you are going to conceal owb with a Hoodie or coat.

1
TaskMaster1942OP•

Word of the wise, just wait rn. For all we know they'll deny all these classes or clarify the law to apply to only tbe handgun you used for the course.

3
Mikei233•

Oh I know, I was going to wait until a few people here posted they got approved and what classes they took.

1
Longjumping_Jello846Burlington•

Thanks , that clears up a lot of BS

1
freezey00•
1
TaskMaster1942OP•

This discrepancy is whats being discussed

1
Froggie1987•

I'd be careful with this... even law enforcement has to qualify with every gun they carry, on or off duty....

1
TaskMaster1942OP•

Both are different permits/quals

1
[deleted]•

[removed]

1
tommy3rd•

I was already wondering how the hell am I going to qualify with my snubby, which I feel was really for 5 yrds and under. It's my favorite to carry specially in the winter since it can stay inside the front pocket of a jacket or hoodie and I can fire it without taking it out. I don't care about putting a hole in the jacket or hoodie.

-10
ihateradishes•

Stop watching so many movies and carry responsibly. Blind firing a weapon from your hip is the antithesis of gun safety

10
tommy3rd•

That's the greatest thing about the US - you can follow the laws but still have freedom. You can carry however way you want to carry and there's nothing others can do about it. In the truly free states, you can even carry whatever gun you want however way you want to without any qualifications. You have the freedom to comment and critize the action, call someone reckless, unsafe, whatever...but that's about it.

-6
ihateradishes•

Gun safety isn’t about laws, gun safety is about not endangering others while you defend yourself, your family and your belongings.

Your rights end where you put others needlessly in danger and you are the reason that the rest of us have our rights infringed upon.

4
tommy3rd•

I've got news for you... our second amendment rights have been infringed upon in this state long before I started carrying. I can't even carry in this state because of it.

-4