r/Fantasy•
jmcgit

Any good stories with an anti-twist?

I was reading some random Brandon Sanderson quote about fulfilling expectations earlier today, and I started thinking about The Last Jedi's heavy handed attempts to subvert them [before JJ came back]. Rey's parents are nobody, Snoke doesn't matter, that sort of thing. Or more generally, maybe that ancient prophecy that seems to be set up as some sort of framework of the story, except it was created not by a prophet, but just some guy who was trying to make money or screw with people. Maybe a raving madman claiming to be an ancient God of Olympus turns out to be just some raving madman.

I didn't think The Last Jedi was all that great, but it has me thinking, are there any stories or authors that do that kind of thing and make a good story out of it? I'm mostly looking for a 'are they/aren't they' where they're not, maybe it's a shaggydog or maybe that false belief triggers something else, but either way the story is still satisfying. The whole story doesn't have to be like that, it'd be cool if it kept you guessing, but it should be a major part.

Posted Jul 7, 2022, 6:18 PM UTC

09
GroupieXL•

Glen Cook does that a lot. In fact one of his short stories for the Black Company is literally "Shaggy Dog Bridge." And in one of the books where writers offer advice along with a short story he tries to get across that part of his writing is basically "shit happens" without any regard for how much has been planned or how much plot has been invested in a certain character.

5
AceOfFools•

There are two answers to this question: firstly “every single story that relies on a well-foreshadowed conclusion,” and secondly, “you can get away with it in satire.”

Any story that doesn’t have a big twist while still being good counts as an example in option 1. Did you really expect the leads in a movie called Guardians of the Galaxy to run and hide instead of coming to the defense of the galaxy? Twists are popular, but very often anticipated by the genre-savy viewer.

The second answer is when we interpret “anti-twist” to be more than lack of a mandatory act-3 twist. That is to say a story where conventions, foreshadowing, and audience expectations lead to the expectation of a twist, only no twist is delivered.

This can play out in one of two ways: either the audience is surprised by the non-twist, or they feel cheated by being deliberately mislead. If they’re surprised, that non-twist is basically a twist. If they feel actively mislead, they’ll usually feel like the author is being dishonest with them. This can work fine if they feel like their in on the joke. Diablo 2 has a great moment where a plot twist is explained by the player character, because obviously that was the twist Blizzard was going to go with, and you (the player) will have figured it out by that point. It feels really good after all the time Blizzard and other games studios make walking into the obvious trap the only option to progress.

However, if the “Haha, you thought there would be a twist moment,” feels like the author mocking the reader, it will be a lot more poorly received. Unfortunately, the only examples I can think of are 1) relatively obscure and 2) in books or media I didn’t like and don’t want to promote.

If y’all want to list great subverting the expectation of a twist, I will appreciate it. Love that meta humor.

3
improper84•

The best twists are always the ones that are well-foreshadowed but that you also don't see coming at all. Probably the best example of this is the Red Wedding in Martin's A Storm of Swords. All the pieces are there to tell you what's coming, but they're super easy to miss on a first read-through because of how subtle they are.

At least until they get to the Twins and it becomes frighteningly obvious that something terrible is about to happen.

0
Ertata•

The Witcher saga is quite big on non-resolutions or strange resolutions of the main plotlines. Some say it is a result of Sapkowski's writing himself into corner (but unlike certain other authors he couldn't afford to sit on his ass for a decade), others say that it is a purposeful statement about how the world really works.

2
Notcoded419•

I found those unconventional story endings to be one of the best parts of the Witcher short stories.

1
Notcoded419•

The Maltese Falcon. It's the stuff dreams are made of... And nothing more.

2

Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but David Eddings' Belgariad saga looks and feels exactly like the most paint-by-numbers Hero's Journey you've ever encountered. This is leavened mainly by the fact that David Eddings has a gift for witty characters and crackling, funny dialogue.

But without spoiling anything, you'll eventually come to the realization that paint-by-numbers nature of the Hero's Journey is, in itself, not only intentional, but a meta-plot point within the series itself. It is vitally important that Garion, the erstwhile hero of the saga, engage in a paint-by-numbers Hero's Journey, and the more paint-by-numbers it is, the better a job Garion is doing.

1
improper84•

I just read R Scott Bakker's The Second Apocalypse and it subverts expectations quite a bit throughout the seven book series.

And I'd just recommend it in general because I think it's now my second favorite fantasy series after A Song of Ice and Fire. I am in absolute awe of the world-building done in The Aspect-Emperor, which is the second arc of the overall series and consists of the final four books.

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
wjbc•

Steven Erikson in The Malazan Book of the Fallenand Terry Pratchett in Discworld both love playing with and subverting fantasy tropes.

-1