RyanCentral: "Honestly, just signing Shroud for LCQ does more for SEN's chances of Franchising than winning LCQ or even Champs."
twitter.com/RyanCentral_/status/1545481869738...Posted Jul 8, 2022, 7:02 PM UTC
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I know it's very unlikely but it would be so fucking funny if shroud pops off. I want to see this timeline just for the chaos.
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I don't think anyone should wish for anything but them winning LCQ just for the memes.
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Pull a FaZe and have Shroud and TenZ drop 60+ and still lose
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I would hope that when considering orgs riot cares more about their league (with very limited spots) being competitive than clout moves 👍
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Yea because the Management of Coca-Cola cares about the chamber head to head between Yay and Leaf... and not the viewership...
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I understand your optimism but at the end of the day they want to squeeze as much profits out as possible.
Hope you are right though!
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Why should we let orgs who do no content or social media into the league? LCS is having that issue now where half the orgs in the league are leeching. These orgs don’t bring any new viewers or interest
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cs' viewership seems fine and most teams barely do any content
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And that won't help them in the long-term once their popular players decides to retire. CS is benefiting from the fact that there is less player-turnover compared to LoL.
LCS used to average 200k each match. And this is because of the huge content creators that were on those teams. Now most of them are retired and more and more faceless players enter the league the viewership started to dwindle. THis will happen in LCK once Faker is gone too.
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replying to your edit, the most popular players in 2017 are all retired, the most popular players in 2015 are all retired, most of the current players dont make any content at all.
stewie2k, tarik, almost all of g5, shroud, kennyS, the list goes on.
other pros will always be there to replace them lol
edit: i dont know why i listed stewie2k, but my point stands
cs doesnt really have any popular streamers anymore outside s1mple either.
csgo also averages about 850k excluding china at every big event sooo i dunno
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i mean most of their previously most popular players have retired and newer players just get more popular soooo
looking at only csgo, not previous cs', it has thrived for 9 years with the most popular players being changed/replaced every couple years so im not sure you're correct
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those popular players will just be replaced by the next generation, no long term problem in cs without franchising.
also cs is already past that point enough generations of pros already retired and they always got replaced by new ones
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Cs also doesn’t have franchising
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You may disagree. But providing better competition for the league is better than getting together a group of "influencers" who can barely hack it in the T2 scene.
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If their focus is on competition they'll have to change out the teams in the league every 4 months when the meta change..... for better competition
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Actually good teams are good in different metas. That's the key. Notice how SEN has been garbage since their meta changed? Bad team.
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I never said orgs with 0 content or social media should get in, but when there's like a max of 8 NA slots and like at least 30 orgs interested (a lot that have great social media teams too), I would rather orgs who's first priority is to win get in. Popularity will move with the players.
(also I'm not saying SEN definitely shouldn't get in, just that I hope this move is not what will push riot do it. And they make sure the org actually cares about being good in the future before they give them a slot).
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You'd be shocked at how little effort some orgs are putting into Valorant content & socials. Only a handful of NA orgs fully all in. It's pretty much Sentinels, 100T, TSM, Cloud9, NRG, The Guard and to a lesser extent NYXL doing full 360 support meaning Youtube, Twitter, tik tok, instagram and content creators. Then there's Optic who've dabbled in it with twitter and a bit of youtube. Faze has done a tiny bit of youtube. EG pretty much nothing. T1 a little bit of youtube. XSET does some twitter and tik tok. V1 does practically nothing. Ghost does practically nothing. Sentinels post the most, get the most views/interactions out of any of those orgs and get the most viewers in the world
Also from a competitive standpoint, Sentinels, 100T, and Optic/Envy are the only orgs to qualify for all 5 VCT NA Challengers events and 1st strike
It'd be pretty shocking if they didn't get into franchising
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....does it though?
I understand that Riot historically uses Esports as an advertisement, rather than going 100% for competitive integrity, look at every questionable decision in League for confirmation. But like... this is way too on the nose. A 50% boost in viewership, if that, for two games that are likely to be complete stomps, does not do more for SEN's franchise aspirations than winning what will be the BIGGEST TOURNAMENT IN THE GAME'S HISTORY.
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I think there's at least some merit to the decision beyond "ooga booga clout team."
If SEN can retain Shroud for a decent while I imagine that there actually is a good chance that Riot tosses them a bone, because it is genuinely an insane prospect for viewership to have Shroud competing in your esport.
Additionally, with this move SEN are pretty much instantly the most popular team in the world by far (and they were already up there despite dismal results) which I would think has some pull as well.
The risk management strategy here essentially starts with the (reasonable) assumption that even with SicK or a truly superb stand-in, SEN's chances of winning LCQ were already slim. Thus their approach to making franchising needs to at least consider the possibility that they bomb out of LCQ. With that in mind, I think this move actually makes a lot of sense. It's basically a low-risk, high-reward Hail Mary.
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I mean, using that logic that Sentinels made an assumption that they were fucked in LCQ anyway, if I'm Riot I'm looking at that and scratching my head. Why throw away a shot at still winning or atleast attending the biggest tourney of the year? What happens when Sentinels is franchised and they have a rough season? Do they start doing even wackier shit because of viewership? If that's what Riot wants for their prestigious, highly exclusive franchised league in one of their flagship titles, then sure, this is a good move. I would rate that as unlikely, but who knows what Riot's nebulous aspirations are anyway. If Riot cares about viewership that much then SEN is in already regardless of a Shroud sub.
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It's all about making yourself an attractive franchising prospect for the Valorant league. I don't think the league is as prestigious for riot as everyone here is making out to be. If riot wants to attract sponsors and eyeballs. They will prefer a team like Sentinels who have big heavy weight recognisable names than Ghost, EG etc. Even if Sen bomb out of every VCT next year their matches will have the most eyeballs on them. Shroud alone is logitech e sports brand ambassador. If you just hop over to r/valorant you can alresdy see find comments about how many first time fresh faces are excited to see shroud play.
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If you just hop over to r/valorant you can alresdy see find comments about how many first time fresh faces are excited to see shroud play.
There are many players who do not traditionally watch Esports, but are heavily involved in Twitch and recognize Shroud. If anything, you are correct that his signing will create a lot of new fans for SEN as an organization.
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Why throw away a shot at still winning or atleast attending the biggest tourney of the year?
Because they don't view it as "throwing away" their shot.
The thought process is that their best-case chances of winning LCQ were already very low, and that signing Shroud over someone better does not meaningfully decrease those chances. At the very least, it's a gamble they are willing to take because of the potential upside.
I don't think this move is actually that "wacky"; it's just a strategy that aggressively hedges against the high possibility that SEN do not win LCQ. From that perspective, it makes sense.
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Yeah his take falls apart if you think about it for more than 5 seconds
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I understand that Riot historically uses Esports as an advertisement, rather than going 100% for competitive integrity
This was the case many years ago. Iirc they came out and said they’ve reversed their stance now that esports has grown considerably
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quite the opposite really. what is the point of offering a stream team a spot? the viewers won't stay if they get stomped every week
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Are u sure about that? Sentinels got stomped at stage 1 and still the most viewed games of stage 2 were sentinels games. Not optic games, not the finals but the matches with clout. The top 5 were 3 SEN matches and after that, 2 100T matches.
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Lmao people just want to see SEN get stomped
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This is moving the goalposts, but even then, you think Riot cares about the context?
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That is because people still have some hope, if they continue to get stomped and don't show any glimmers of hope, viewership will die. Popular teams at the start of a game's lifetime that then turn into a shit team lose fans over time, literally just look at TSM.
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The long game.
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This is mutually beneficial for Shroud and Sentinels. Shroud's recent streams haven't been having as many viewers as they used to. This will reignite the Shroud hype and for the price of probably just playing in LCQ, he gets a fat check from Sentinels as well as a renewed interest in his stream.
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Sentinels were very likely to get into franchising regardless of this, anyone who tells you they weren't have not been paying attention. Not only do they consistently have the highest viewership in the world but they put out a ton of content on youtube, twitter, tik tok, etc. and put up mega numbers with those as well. Riot loves that and will put a big emphasis on it with franchising, it's why you've seen a ton of the other orgs start doing what Sentinels have been doing all along. Rather than completely bombing out with a makeshift roster and doing what they've been doing, they're doing it with mega viewership with Shroud. Smart move on their part
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Except it doesnt. Shroud will obviously not be on SEN when franchising starts. If anything, its a super obvious move to just look good to riot, a little too obvious tho
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Yall talk about sen as often as rnba talk about curry
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Bro where is this delusional narrative even coming from I don't get it. All these people really thought SEN weren't gonna get a franchise spot before this?
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The last Sentinels thread was 0 days ago. 0 days since the last Sentinels thread.
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Might as well make this an hourly count until LCQ
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Clout!!
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This doesn’t make any sense unless Shroud does a complete 180 and decides he wants to compete professionally. If he’s just a stand in for LCQ I don’t see why that should influence Riot’s decision on whether Sentinels get a franchise spot or not. Also, he’s probably not going to be very good. He hasn’t play CS professionally in years and it’s not like he grinds Valorant, he’s a fuckin variety streamer now lol. Should be good memes though and solid viewership boost for the Sentinels games at LCQ.
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Reason #8263 why franchising is stupid.
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This was my immediate thought and IMO pretty obvious.
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This.
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Ryan is spot on. With the signing of another big name like shroud as well as creating some team structure with their analyst signings, it seems like Sen are setting themselves up for a franchising spot.
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This does nothing for their chances though. They were high before and having shroud as a stand in for only LCQ doesn't have anything to do with franchising. This is not how a company makes decisions lul. If anything Riot would want shroud as a costreamer and not a player.
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?
That makes 0 sense lol
SEM were pretty much guaranteed into franchising because they have TenZ
This roster move makes 0 sense
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Tenz will be sold to an organisation with a franchising spot if Sentinels don't make it in.
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No one’s gonna pay 1.25 mil for him again
The only org I see doing it is 100t (if they make franchising) Becuase Nadeshot seems to really like Tenz
But no other org would buy him out
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They'll be forced to sell him for lower if no org wants to pay 1.25 mil
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Both of you are probably in for a shock.
Franchising is a business decision, it’d be an asinine business decision to not include the biggest brand in your esport in your franchised league. They are probably getting in.
That being said, there is going to be huge roster turnover. It’s completely possible that TenZ winds up on another team. Looking at other esports or leagues in general with franchising, there’s going to be a huge redistribution of talent as orgs leave the scene and get picked apart because they didn’t make it.
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It makes sense to increase SEN viewership which is slightly better than not winning anything
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Makes sense. But why even bother getting into franchising if you don't care about winning?
Winning does not get you more money in a franchised league. Sponsors for the league as a whole does.
Wait really?
Yea, the point of franchising is that money comes from sponsors/the profits of the League itself.
No not really. People are over exaggerating. There is revenue sharing but winning teams get more fans, get more sponsors and get more money. Franchising just means if you don't have a big fanbase the league will keep your head above water.
The NHL has a similar model and teams have gone bankrupt before and big market teams (NY, TOR, MTL, etc.) Make the most money. People just like to shit on franchising because they want to see those underdogs coming up so they spread either untrue or incomplete information to get people more riled up with them.
You just contradicted yourself by saying winning teams get more fans/money and then using NY/TOR/MTL as an example. For the others who are not familiar with the NHL, the last time these teams won the league was 1994 (NY), 1993 (MTL) and 1967 (TOR). The last time Toronto won the league there was only 6 teams. The last time they won a playoff series was 2004 (!). And yet they have the most fans and make the most money. Just to give you an idea of how many fans they have the waiting list for season tickets is 20 years! Just as a comparison, Tampa (the team that went to the finals the last three years and won two of them) is ranked 20th in terms of team value.
In any case, this is not unique to the NHL. Even in basketball you have teams like the Lakers/Knicks who are consistently among the most valuable/profitable teams regardless of their performance in game. The Knicks haven't won the league since 1973 and haven't won a playoff series since 2013. They are still the most valuable team in the league (at least according to Forbes latest money list)
Winning is not the most important thing in a franchised league. Viewership/sponsorships is. Which is why you will see teams like SEN signing a 28 year old whose last competitive match was 4 years ago in a completely different game instead of signing one of the young up and comers/academy players or a certain someone sitting on their bench who has already played (well) with the team before. They're not trying to maximize their chances of winning they are trying to maximize their viewership numbers and if you're someone who cares about competitive integrity and want to see the best compete against the best that should scare you.
Don’t get it twisted. Everything is about ratings (eyeballs). That is exactly what shroud brings to the table. Yea, winning helps but it’s why the NBA is such a star heavy league. Having good ratings brings more sponsors, brand deals, advertisement opportunities, investment and so much more.
I thought the teams will not buy in to Valorant franchising. It sounds like Riot will own the whole league and get most of the profits. But ofc they would pay out some portion to the teams.
We don’t even know what the format is for the franchise league so we literally don’t know whether winning matters or not. Sponsors care about broadcast time. If winning teams go to more international events, they get more broadcast time, which sponsors do care about. But we don’t know. So we can’t say anything definitive one way or the other about whether or not winning matters in the franchised Valorant league.
I mean once you’re in franchising you’re free to do whatever you want. All that matters is getting access to that pool of sponsor money by being within the franchising system.
Might just rebuild around 1-2 players tbh. There’s a long offseason for them after LCQ
Cuz money?
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