Why all the concern with fraud with UBI today?
Seeing allot of concern about fraud when we impliment UBI
Posted Jul 15, 2022, 12:43 PM UTC
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Anything to discredit the idea. It's the whole 'Welfare Queen" moral panic type shit all over again to get us to believe that UBI, if enacted, would be grievously abused so that it doesn't build support.
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This is exactly correct. Take a look at the posts of the people who are worrying about fraud. If you look carefully you’ll see they have a bias against UBI, at least based on what I’ve seen. One way to discredit something is to bring up baseless concerns under the guise of being a supporter and sewing doubt amongst the believers.
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If your UBI program is actually Universal, fraud is much less of a concern. The problem is that may UBI supporters actually want means testing because they cannot stomach the idea of ”rich” people seeing any of their tax dollars returned.
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UBI should have much less fraud than the current fractured system
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If so much as one person rips of the system, then we can't do it. Don't mind that corporations were given essentially 3 months worth of wages during the pandemic, for free, rife with abuse. It's okay when they do it.
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[removed]
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It was one guy who posted 2 links here idk.
It's not a huge concern. No more than say social security.
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Any questions being asked about UBI are likely due to FUD being spread by opponents to the Forward Party.
UBI is currently not a policy of the Forward Party.
^ UBI is dangerous to focus on because it distracts from the real issue.
It was the talking point that got Yang on the map during election season and due to the controversy surrounding it, it is still being used to smear our name. Sure, some people may be genuinely curious about UBI and aren't trying to tear down the movement, but they may still have no idea what they are talking about and can unintentionally spread misinformation.
Anyone who talks about UBI as though it is the only Forward Party policy is either:
- Uninformed
- Trying to sow doubt and bring down the movement
The Forward Party is solely dedicated to primarily focused on voting reform and technological innovation. Controversial topics such as UBI have been tabled. Any Excessive discussion about them is off topic and unrelated to the Forward Party's current goals.
Make sure if you see people spreading misinformation about this issue to refer them to the Forward Party Platform page.
If they do not respond or try to deny facts, report them to the mod team.
Edit: Made this comment less black and white. See below
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Ubi is one of the core principles. So yes it is part of the platform.
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It's a core principle, but according to the website it is not part of the platform. I don't mean to imply that it's dead and buried, but it has nothing to do with the Forward Party's current goals. (For the record, I am pro-UBI).
If we want to use UBI as part of our campaign to get democratic reform, then the freedom dividend should be listed with the other policies.
UBI is not even in the realm of possibility until democratic reform happens, because the Forward party cannot hold office. It's not something we should focus on or try to sell people.
It is no longer Andrew's main talking point because people are not ready to accept it as a solution. It is controversial and I imagine that's why it is not listed with the other platforms.
We need RCV and open primaries first.
Also edit: This doesn't seem to be consistent among all Forward Party supporters. Locally, this hasn't been a part of the conversation for us, but here in the Forward Party HQ it's obviously come up a lot. Reddit is not somewhere we have made a lot of progress so it's disconcerting to see that most of the buzz here lately has been about controversial issues such as UBI and not absolute necessities like voting reform. If there is something I'm missing I'd love to learn more.
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It's a core principle, but according to the website it is not part of the platform. I don't mean to imply that it's dead and buried, but it has nothing to do with the Forward Party's current goals. (For the record, I am pro-UBI).
The thing is, the platform is mostly minor priorities. UBI being a core principle transcends the rest of the platform.
But yes, we need political action to make RCV and other changes happen before we can make progress on UBI realistically.
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Cleaned up my original comment. Where I'm from, people see Yang as the "UBI guy" and it's alienating them from the party. It's basically treated as some kind of single-issue voter policy because people here are still living in the Red Scare.
How do we help people to focus on the primary issue at hand, and not just UBI?
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“When”
Your optimism made me happy
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That's an American problem. America doesn't have a secure Identification system unlike the rest of the world.
You are supposed to say "finally the American government is forced to fix their identification infrastructure because of UBI"
A registered sex offender can just move to a different state and they won't be registered in the state as sex offenders because it's on the sex offender to go the state's municipality or w/e and register themselves for being a sex offender.
This is America.
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It's just concern trolling by people who either don't like change or don't like that their tribe isn't the one pushing UBI. It's garbage, give it the attention it deserves and keep engaging on the more productive talking points.
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The ruling class is going to throw everything they have at disparaging Yang, UBI and Forward.
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I thought bypassing the need for system wide fraud checks was one of the strengths of UBI? How do you commit fraud when the same amount is automatically given to everyone?
All I can think of is pretending dead people aren't dead and people faking citizenship, both which I think the US government already handles reasonably well.
That happened in Japan. The eldest ofnthe family died but the family didn't say anything. The lady was supposed to be one of the eldest in the county or state I believe so the government went to visit her only to find out she was dead all along.
I think if we implement UBI this would happen. But I rather that happen than the top corporations not paying anything in taxes. There is always going to be people taking advantage of the system.
Yeah, I'm not saying that fraud will absolutely not happen, just that the current measures are reasonably successful, so the financial burden of supporting the very few successful fraudsters is low.