Source
r/changemyview•
C_2000

CMV: It is the bride's job not to let herself be outshined, not the guests

Delta(s) from OP

A large part of any wedding-related discussion is how do guests, usually women, carefully choose their outfits so as to not "outshine" the bride. but I honestly never understood why the onus is entirely on the guests to stay vigilant and not on the bride to make sure that her dress is the most eyecatching one, if that's something she wants in her dress. instead of expecting every single guest to tone it down, she should amp up her own dress.

This includes wearing the colour white, but also wearing bright colours like red, wearing daring/unique cuts of dresses, having a poofy skirt, having a lot of bling, etc.

and IF the bride is someone who enjoys simple, quiet clothing, then shouldn't she be perfectly fine with someone else wearing something flashy? because her preference is simple and she's being true to herself.

Specifically i'm gonna focus on western/american weddings, because a lot of american weddings guest outfits look incredibly bland, boring, and everyday from what I have seen. I can only assume that this is because of general fears of "upstaging" the bride/groom with an outfit, when it should really be on the bride/groom to make sure they don't get upstaged.

i want this view changed because I usually go along with what these dresscodes are, but i'd like to understand them better.

Posted Aug 1, 2022, 6:29 AM UTC

043
TheVioletBarry72ƥ

Maybe the bride doesn't have as strong a fashion sense as you, but she wants to feel special on her big day. I feel like that's a good enough reason to put a little onus on yourself, to 'let her have this one' - even if the pressure of these events has become profoundly overblown

18
chalupebatmen•

This deserves a delta

2
C_2000OP•

!delta i think the fact that making the wedding fun for everyone is a partnership is a really compelling argument

but i do genuinely want to ask, isn't just the act of being a bride enough to make people feel special? Everyone has gathered there for you, you walk down the aisle, you stand in front and have a ceremony, etc.

2
TheVioletBarry72ƥ

I'm sure it does to some degree. But we live in a sexist world where plenty of women are taught that on their wedding day they have to look the best you can possibly look. And having to worry about being upstaged just isn't worth the anxiety, I feel like.

I don't agree with the many institutions that lead to this scenario, but I do think it's a nice thing to do given the stress inherent to our screwed up world.

And many thanks for the delta!

5
DeltaBotMOD∞∆•

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to u/TheVioletBarry (71∆).

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1
pantaloonsofJUSTICE2ƥ

Evidently gathering on someone else’s behalf hasn’t stripped you of the desire to be the center of attention.

1
PickledPickles3103ƥ

You also have to consider that people have different incomes. There's a very real chance that someone at an average sized wedding will be earning significantly more than the bride and groom. The bride and groom may simply not be able to afford a lavish, custom designed, dress from a top designer.

1
5xum39ƥ

It's nobody's job to do anything at a wedding, it's a celebration. And it's a celebration of the bride and the groom, so it's only polite to try to make them feel as happy as possible. And choosing the right attire to help with that is really the least one can do.

11
C_2000OP•

I agree with this, but the 'right attire' is too vague of a term. some brides/grooms feel happy seeing that everyone else went all-out to celebrate them, for example. it's not a guarantee that the bride wants to see a bunch of politely calm dresses at her wedding

1
5xum39ƥ

True, but it is the norm that, for a wedding, the dress is politely calm. If a bride wants anything other than the norm, they can request so explicitly, but to request a "politely calm" dress code would not make sense, as of course, if no other requests are made, the default should be assumed.

You also wouldn't send an invite requesting that someone eats their salad with a fork and not their hands.

3
C_2000OP•

What I'm trying to understand is why that norm exists and what's the rationale behind it. I didn't grow up with it so that's why i'm asking

0
5xum39ƥ

The norm, as most norms, exists because the majority agrees with it, and it's useful for the majority.

2
sawdeanz171ƥ

The norm exists for the reason that the comment said, because the intention of the event is to celebrate the bride and groom, rather than treat it like any other cocktail/dinner party. The rationale makes perfect sense to me and is probably why it is a social norm.

1
eye_patch_willy43ƥ

Let's start with an absurd example. You're invited to a traditional American wedding. Ceremony followed by a reception. White dress, matching bridesmaids gowns, tuxedos for the groom and groomsmen. Or dresses/ tuxes for everyone in the wedding party.

Would you wear a chicken suit to that wedding as a guest? Of course not. It would be a distraction. Suddenly a guest is the topic of conversation. Aunties are murmuring about the person in the costume. The focus is taken from the couple getting married (who've paid for the whole thing). So wearing anything flashier than the bride, especially the bride, would come across as rude. As bad as a chicken suit? No, but far enough down that spectrum to still be inappropriate.

1
Z7-852128ƥ

Bride and groom are paying for the wedding. They are giving you food and drinks. They invited you. They planned and did everything. It's their event.

It's only reasonable that you follow rules they set out. If they say wear pink ponchos you better buy a poncho or not go to that event.

10
C_2000OP•

i think i should clarify, I don't mean to go against clearly set out rules by the bride and groom. i'm more talking about general convention, I guess? as an example, most wedding invitations don't really include things like 'no blingy dresses' or 'no white,' but there's still a general understanding that guests should err on the side of caution.

I feel like since it is their event, they did all the planning and they know what they want, it should be on them to figure out how to best dress themselves in order to be the centre of attention.

-2
Z7-852128ƥ

If you are planning a paintball event, you wouldn't want anyone coming there dressed in wedding dress in high heels wouldn't you? You will not list this as requirement for the paintball event because it's general convention where everyone understands that you should have sporty wear in a paintball event. You don't need to tell your guests to wear socks, underwear or contact lenses. These are adults that know how to dress to paintball.

But if you want to have paintball wedding then it's commonly understood that there will be one player in a white dress where others don't wear this color. It goes without saying. It's generally understood fact that in certain events you dress in certain way without it needs to be spelled out. Word "wedding" in the invitation already includes all these rules.

2
C_2000OP•

all of this "general convention" is what I'm trying to change my view on. I don't understand why it's assumed that guests can't wear nice, eye-catching clothes. that "general convention" isn't universal for all people or all weddings, so I'm asking for an explanation of it

also, i don't think that it actually is easily understood what to wear to a wedding, considering a huge chunk of wedding-related-posts are people confused on what they should wear

-2
Z7-852128ƥ

i don't think that it actually is easily understood what to wear to a wedding, considering a huge chunk of wedding-related-posts are people confused on what they should wear

If you are confused then ask. Bride and groom will answer you what to wear. They know rules all the guests should follow because it's their event.

You can't expect them to list each and every item you can or cannot wear. That wedding invite would be tedious to read and impossible to write. This why we rely on these general conventions. Sporty wear to paintball and non-white to wedding.

But even you clearly know lot of these rules just based on word "wedding". You know you shouldn't wear white or flashy clothes. So right now you are acting ignorant on purpose instead of actually being ignorant.

4
suspiciouslyfamiliar8ƥ

What you're advocating for is a kind of weird arms race between the bride and the attendees, where the bride has to consider dozens of different people and what she thinks they might wear - then try to outshine all of them. I've never been a bride, but I imagine this would be quite stressful for the poor woman.

What we have now is simple. Attendees have a general idea of what one person will be wearing, and do their best not to upstage them on a day which is ostensibly supposed to be about the happy couple.

6
TeddyBearDom791ƥ

Under normal circumstances I would agree. Where I diverge is there are some try hard women who go to some extremes to outshine a bride. The people who go out of their way to outshine are the problem. The bride has an obligation to look good but there is a point where a guest is being a dick.

3
Z7-852128ƥ

Would you be fine if wedding invite read:

"Don't wear white, daring, uniquely cut dresses and don't outshine the bride."

Would this be ok to you? Now bride have made the job to make sure their quests don't outshine them. Because they do all this by including word "wedding" in the invite.

3
C_2000OP•

Because they do all this by including word "wedding" in the invite.

not all weddings follow those standards. it is not enough to say "wedding" and just be done with it.

but, I was never even talking about the bride dictating the dress code of guests. I'm talking about blaming guests when the bride gets outshined, which I find unfair.

1
Z7-852128ƥ

it is not enough to say "wedding" and just be done with it.

Well it is. From the fact that you wrote all those unspoken rules in your post (like not wearing white), it means you know them. Claiming that you don't know these rules after listing them shows that you are being ignorant on purpose.

If you don't know all the rules you should ask.

5
C_2000OP•

once again, it is not about understanding what the rules are, it's about WHY they are in place and WHY the guests are expected to bear the burden.

0
Z7-852128ƥ

Because Bride and Groom are setting up the event, they are paying for the event and they can make up the rules.

If you don't like the rules. Don't go to the wedding.

2
youranidiot-•

Guests also bear the burden in your culture, arguably a much heavier one. According to you, guests are expected to dress in a flashy manner to compliment the host.

1
s_wipe45ƥ

Its their day, the bride will pick the dress of her dreams.

Sometimes, those dreams arent that extravagant.

2
C_2000OP•

and IF the bride is someone who enjoys simple, quiet clothing, then shouldn't she be perfectly fine with someone else wearing something flashy? because her preference is simple and she's being true to herself.

The bride can also specifically request "please wear minimalist attire." But it's unfair to blame guests for outshining the bride in these cases when they're not made aware otherwise

0
tinylittlerubbergask5ƥ

But it's unfair to blame guests for outshining the bride in these cases when they're not made aware otherwise

You may be attributing a level of absoluteness and unreasonableness to this idea that most people wouldn't actually support.

For example: Let's say that bride chooses a very simple wedding dress. No frills, no lace, no train. Just a plain white dress. No one reasonable would "blame" one of the guests of outshining the bride for wearing a dress with a few bows on it.

No one reasonable would "blame" a guest who came from a culture where everyone put on their flashiest, fanciest cloths for weddings and was unaware that the custom is different here.

3
Slinkusmalinkus65ƥ

Every wedding event will have a dress code and not all wedding events will have the same dress code. There are general conventions about wedding dress codes that are culturally contextual, but you can get more specifics by asking. If nobody will tell you, then at that point it's on them. You have a responsibility as a guest to be polite and, in some contexts, dressing in white or overly flashy can be rude because dress code.

2
LefIllegal1•

In far too many social settings it is frowned upon for the guest to upstage the host without a direct invitation to do so(upstage/open challenge). I think its safe to say weddings have not been traditionally known for inviting guest to upstage the hosts. Of all the platforms where this may be acceptable, the wedding ceremony is the least associated with such a behavior.

2
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
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1
rollingForInitiative48ƥ

I think the very simple answer here is that you if you try to outshine the bride and succeed, you're the one suffering the consequences. People will judge you for being gaudy, not the bride for failing to look the best. That makes it your problem.

If you want to sympathise ... weddings are already expensive, and most people aren't rich. The wedding couple need to pay for the venue, the food, perhaps accommodations for the guests, drinks, dozens of other things, including the dress, which is also probably a dress they will only wear that one time in their life. Most people don't have infinite money.

A guest on the other hand could spend a tiny fraction of the total wedding budget and get a much fancier dress than the bride could afford, and one they could wear to a lot of events.

And again, people might err on the side of caution, because they're the ones that will suffer judgement if they upset the bride.

1
tinylittlerubbergask5ƥ

I think the general idea is that a wedding is a celebration of the bride and grooms love and commitment. As such you wouldn't want to wear something that makes you the center of attention.

1
KDY_ISD56ƥ

At the wedding, the guests should want attention to be focused on the bride and groom. A flashy or eye-catching outfit inherently will draw attention away from the bride and groom.

Insofar as you have a job at all at a wedding, your "job" is to make the event about the couple and not about you.

1
jt4112ƥ

I’m really only familiar with the rule against wearing white as a guest. I haven’t heard of the other fashion tips as “outshining” the bride.

I’ve also heard that term in reference to making the day about you (giving a speech unrelated to the couple, proposing to someone else, etc). In this case, it should be clear to the guest that what you’re about to do should not happen because it’s someone else’s day.

1
ghotier32ƥ

A person can only "look good" one way at a time. This includes the bride. But there are many ways to "look good." The entire point of the aphorism is to avoid purposely exploiting this to draw attention to yourself on someone else's day.

1
abu_hajaaar3ƥ

The only one shining to me is the fit body in a tight dress.

0