Who drives debate ?

Supervisors should be doling out the keys if you can’t all act like adults.

We have issues like this on my team. I member when I first joined, I'd always come in early to do the teas and grab the best set of car keys.

Then I'd wait for the standard drivers to come in and I'd hand them over to one of them. The reason I did this was because other basic drivers would hoard the "better" cars meaning that those needing them would be stuck driving the really shit cars with all the warning lights coming on.

This still happens now, which is really fucking annoying but as I'm no longer the tea bitch I don't tend to come in early any more, nothing like the probie driving the brand new 22 plate astra going to appointments whilst you're stuck with the 11 plate astra with frayed seat belt and ABS warning light whilst being expected to turn out to all the immediates.

It's just common sense really - those putting themselves at risk should be prioritised to drive the more stable vehicles. Honestly no idea why car keys turns otherwise rationale people into absolute cunts at times.

It makes sense that IRV drivers take keys first because they can go to I grades. Don't really see how you can see it any other way.

Obviously I've no idea but I wonder if this has anything to do with the way the person was asked for the keys. Sometimes people forget that going on a course doesn't make you special.

"Sorry control I am foot patrol today however Probiecunt1 is available in a vehicle for that violent domestic."

If an emergency occurs where a timely response could have made a difference and a complaint is made then that driver who didnt give up the keys to the response trained driver would be out the job. Absolute state.

To be honest, I can’t believe this has even been a conversation. This just shows how ridiculous the police is becoming that we can’t even employ adults who can make reasonable and sound decisions. How can we expect to police properly, when teams are having squabbles over who should drive the fucking car.

Supervisors, get a grip of your staff.

Officers, use common sense. If you can’t respond, don’t take the fucking car.

To be fair, before my time you were lucky to get a car at all. It was foot beat and the van or car was a luxury.

This sort of stuff grips my shit. 100% keys should go to highest trained and work their way down the list, advanced (IPP- no TPAC capable vehicles on response in my force)- response/IPP- response- basic.

My old team started this trait towards the end of my time there; basic drivers wanting shiny cars too look cool, or because they were faster (despite not being trained,) or even just because said vehicle had a stereo..

Sgts really need to get a grip of this stuff. There is no way a basic driver should have priority over someone higher trained if both are free for calls. If said basic kept the key, I’d have no issue in refusing a call and informing control over the air that X basic call sign has keys and will attend.

My colleague has refused and it has effectively turned into an argument, with my basic grade colleague keeping the keys.

But what if the response driver is lazy af and the basic is trying to prove themselves by going to all the calls.

I know who I'd rather have in the car.

Higher driving grade makes sense to have the keys first.

That said, if some basic driver insists on taking them first and won't hand them over, so be it - but when the controller's call up for the first job, v basic driver gets it - the Sgt can get the keys if they don't approve of that and give them to someone else.

People arguing over who gets the newest car though, that really gets on my wick. There is no argument of higher grade students having the "newer" car if they are all the same model anyway.

Shouldn't really be a debate, and the Sgt should be booting the basic drivers arse. That he even argued the point raises concerns about his decision making ability.

It's totally pathetic two so-called professionals can't act like adults. Personally, I agree that the Standard driver should have had priority, you can almost see the headlines now, 'preventable death while A-B driver waits at red light'...

I agree with the higher the driving grade should get first pick, but I’d caveat that with this. On our team you could have 5 IRV’s out and not 1 panda because their waiting for the other cars to come back from the previous shift. S grades are queuing up and not 1 IRV will touch them, then an I grade for a sequential alarm goes off and all 5 will take it. So I’d say, just because you’re an IRV doesn’t mean you can’t/shouldn’t handle an S grade call.

Advanced, Advanced IPP, Advanced TPAC being the order of precedence.

I really can't see this issue affecting anyone who is Advanced+, given the absolute crème de la crème you'll get on response is standard IPP.

It's first come, first serve at my nick. A basic driver who is in 30 mins before shift becomes immediately more useful than the Standard IPP driver who habitually turns up a minute before briefing.

What really irks me is how people get fussy over the cars, with some old sweats refusing to leave the nick unless they have "their" car; they're all 308s in various states of fucked FFS.

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It shouldn't be an issue but often is.

It's also really indicative of Skippers trying to make it work, when in truth the answer should be "we don't have enough resources"

I'm sick of long in the tooth skippers giving it "well you're lucky to even get a chance of a car" when we're scratching round for keys to attend of our three DA appointments. "Back in my day we walked".

Aye Sgt I'm sure you did. But back then the Tories hadn't slashed resources, you only covered a small patch and didn't work at centralised stations. You certainly weren't expected to walk 15 miles to the divisional boarder to review a DA Facebook spat.

If the Job wants to single crew cops from a central station, and send them to three appointments with a 20 mile round trip required then they should provide enough vehicles.

Then when you do jump on a bus/tram with your work laptop, kit and bag and pick up crimes reported you get moaned at by Skippers for not dealing with your appointments.

In this scenario someone's pointed out we don't know what the full circs. Maybe that basic driver is sick of being expected to somehow get 20-30 miles round the division for the 4th time this set and getting the keys yanked off them by a G1 driver whose going to sit in and do an hour's paperwork.

So if there are other cars available, the response driver should just go get some other keys.

But if you mean that those were the only keys available, then the response driver should be having those keys incase a grade 1 comes in.

Anyone with a driving skill should always get the better cars, and should be the ones with cars if there is a shortage.

How did the situation resolve itself out of interest? What ended up happening?

Edit: to add, I think a problem in a lot of teams is that everyone thinks they are ‘equal’. Obviously as individuals we all are equal, but when it comes to skills and training, then this needs to be brought into account and those without skills should be the ones losing out on car keys etc as ultimately the Police are there to provide response capability to emergencies and crimes, and the units being fielded needs to be arranged to best deal with that’s

The old "handing keys onto mates rather than put them up on the board" thing still happens on response.

Stick the keys on the board, the big vans go to big van drivers, the Ok cars and little vans with lights go to the proper cops who can respond, the replacement Corsa with lights go to the probationer who can respond and the rest can scramble over the left overs.

It's the law.

It's totally fine; "sorry sarge I can't go to the I Grade, there was one car in the yard but PC X wouldn't hand over the keys, so..."

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and then sit back and relax

Am I missing something, but let's take the pettiness aside for a minute because my position has been adequately covered by plenty of others (response ticket should get the car), why don't they just double up if there aren't enough cars?

My old lot used to do that all thet ime. I can recall loads of shifts where we were "flush" with a Sergeant and 8, but half the cars were in the body shop (or were on loan to other nicks because they were short of cars, and no pool cars available. So instead of single-crewing we doubled up. They were the best shifts - no loneliness and no waiting for backup.

Although there hopefully aren't very many 'advanced non-IPP', I think that standard + IPP should get priority over advanced non-IPP unless you're driving an advanced car.

In our force we fairly often have a situation for our Traffic units where the driver is advanced and the operator is TPAC - if they're needed for a TPAC job then they'll swap over.

Your colleague is a knob, response drivers always take priority. He's potentially putting lives at risk by making the team one response driver down.