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r/TheDarkTower•
Tormundo

Random Wizard & Glass questions

Spoilers- Wizard and Glass

So I'm re-listening to this amazing book and just a couple random questions popped into my head.

Why didn't Roland send word back like Cuthbert suggested? At the very least to warn them, if not to send help. I know there was a war going on, but sending a single gunslinger could've made a huge difference. If they failed he could've fucked the entire affiliation smh. I get he was love struck, but its also kinda implied he was right with all his decisions besides how he handled the affair. At a certain point, after Roland had realized their plan to use the oil, Jonas and Rimer are talking about the boys and its stated that its still not too late for them to send messages and receive help from Gilead, so that excuse doesn't work.

Also, Jonas seems to change his plan after his meeting with Walter. We know Walter asks him all his plans, so was the whole idea to lie to the boys and trick them Walters idea? Just kinda curious if Roland got completely owned in their game of castles, or if Walters interference gave Jonas the upper hand.

Another thing, at a certain point Jonas seems extremely confident he could take Roland straight up, even after he learns where he is really from. Then towards the end though he seems terrified of Roland, demanding they got 40+ men with guns to deal with him. What changed? Did Walter again give him more info? Nothing else changed AFAIK.

I wish we got more backstory about Rolands youth. More Cuthbert, more of his dad etc.

If anyone else has any dumb things you guys want to speculate about lets go!

Posted Dec 22, 2022, 5:34 PM UTC · edited

816
akennelley•

Jonas was over confident. As a failed Gunslinger himself, he has something to prove to heal his massive ego.

He sees Roland as a too-young Gunslinger that should not even have his guns yet. Thinks he can take him.

Walter, however, probably shared some details. Some of them he knew about Roland's strength from when he knew him in Gilead. Some is probably a result of precognition due to sorcery and possibly because "Walter" is powerful enough to actually walk between worlds and time periods. Being he is Flagg.

So, with the knowledge of the feats Roland had already accomplished + probably seeing the way this whole Mejis situation was going to turn out...he told Jonas the cold hard facts: Roland is going to fucking kill you, dude.

Also bear in mind that if I recall correctly, Jonas had the grapefruit at that point, and could see a lotta shit about Roland that would scare him good.

12
bevilthompson•

At one point they do try to send word using birds but I think DePape shoots it down as he's riding their back trail trying to get info about them.

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TormundoOPWe are one from many•

That was a message coming to the boys from gilead to tell them about the oil IIRC. DePape only clipped it, and when the boys get the message they comment that the bird looks like it was attacked by an animal because it had slight injury.

The messages the boys sent all just said everything is fine lol

5
Chrza436•

Roland wanted to make sure and not cause unneeded alarm, didn’t want Gilead to come destroy this town while leaving their home unguarded…. And by the time he was SURE, it was too late to send help

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TormundoOPWe are one from many•

I mean they wouldn't need to destroy it, just remove the leadership that was being treasonous.

IIRC he found the oil tankers with new wheels etc before the conversation between Jonas/Rimer saying it wasn't too late for Gilead to send help. It was soon after that conversation that Jonas went and killed the pigeons. Prior to that Bert was asking him to send the messages because they were sure.

Also Farson was thousands of miles away from Gilead, and all they needed to send was 1 adult gunslinger, maybe a detachment of different leaders. Kill the big coffin hunters, and then hang the other leaders. Town would've been fine.

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Chrza436•

Yeah that was Bert’s point. As readers I’m sure we were all saying the same thing lol. Roland effed up

1
ronmexico8642•

I always thought Roland was trying to prove himself as a gunslinger and not call in for help. He looked at this as his (and the other two’s) real trial as Gunslingers.

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TormundoOPWe are one from many•

Only reasonable explanation I've heard so far, but damn Roland that's dumb as hell! If Susan didn't save his ass they would've been toast and the affiliation rolled by tanks. Also Susan would've lived!

Even he only gave himself 50/50 odds on success

3
Crusader_2050•

“I could take him in a straight up fight” was his thoughts before he learned how sneaky and methodical Roland was. He changed his mind after he knew that Roland had been out to CitGo and that he had been hiding an affair with Susan.

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TormundoOPWe are one from many•

I think its this with a mixture of Walter telling him more of Roland.

1
Yayo30Ka-mai•

I recently finished up WaG, and I dont seem to remember about Walter speaking with Jonas. I also have not started WotC, but Ill try to answer nonetheless.

-While Roland was a full gunslinger at this point (having proved his manhood), he was still just a kid. 14 years old if Im not mistaken. So he still felt he had something to prove. You could tribute it to immaturity, or for him being so love struck. But you can also take the fools man answer "it was Ka". Imagine how different the story would have turned out if Susan survived and Roland did not fell into his own personal pit. Thats why its implied it was the right call. Besides, Im not really sure if that by that point the Ka-Tet had enough proof, only speculations about the horses and the Big Coffin Hunters.

-No idea.

-As I recall, Jonas was already surprised by the kids grit on the first confrontation (the one at the bar), and something that struck a nerve particularly to him was Roland calling him one being a failed gunslinger. Add to that, that from his POV the kids escaped from jail, AND managed to blow up the oil refinery all on a single night made him be extra cautious. Besides, he already knew not to sub estimate the kids, he did realize that the Bad Grass was a dangerous place for an ambush, so he did not want to take any chances. The kids had already proved their salt, and he had already lost the oil fields, he did not want to risk loosing Maerlyns Grapefruit.

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TormundoOPWe are one from many•

Damn how you forget their epic meeting? I think it was DePape who first told Jonas someone was there to see him. He told Jonas " he laughs like a dead person " to Jonas and was basically scared shitless.

It was a great meeting. Walter scared the shit out of Jonas lmao.

Good answers that sound reasonable.

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Yayo30Ka-mai•

Just re-read that whole section (both in spanish and english. fuck translations) and yes, it was DePape.

TBH in my opinion everything is too ambiguous to give a straight answer. The whole palaver between Walter and Jonas is omitted, and its only revealed in a conversation between Latigo and Jonas that walter told him to be weary of the kids.

As I understood (rather poorly Im sure) it was actually Jonas's idea to lie to the kids about Reaping day, to make it seem like thats when they were going to act. All that to take them by surprise with the incrimination of the murder.

As far as I recall, by that point both Jonas and Roland were on the "waiting" phase of the whole Castles analogy. Id say the whole reunion with Walter only contributed on Jonas playing the first move, but Roland's Ka-Tet still managed to overcome it.

I dont have enough info about future events, but maybe that was Walters plan all along. We do know how powerful he is, so maybe it was in reality his move to make things turn out exactly as he wanted to.

On a more general note, I overall disliked this book. So in my opinion it was just the need of King to force Walters character on the Mejis story. It could have very well been the BCH's first plan to lie to the kids. Maybe you are just looking for answers where there are none.

That being said, after reading the whole meeting scene in english, it is a very cool scene. It truly helps to characterize Walter's character.

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TormundoOPWe are one from many•

You disliked Wizard and Glass? It's one of Kings best books! Damn that's wild, I absolutely loved it.

1
Yayo30Ka-mai•

For what Ive read here, WaG is split very 50/50 by the community.

As to why I disliked so much the book? I felt like it took me away from Roland's (second) Ka-Tets Journey. I really liked the dynamic they had, and having read Wastelands just before starting WaG, I only wanted more of it.

Besides, it not only felt like a whole side plot that did not affect that much of what I would call "main" story (I may be completely wrong once I finish my frist trip to the tower, so who knows). I also felt it like a teenage romance drama, with the whole Susan and Rolland arc, which as I understand is the main book's contribution. As a matter of fact, if you think about it, the whole book feels like a big parenthesis overall. After beating Blaine the characters dont change at all until the very end when they leave Oz's Castle and learn a bit about Roland killing >!his own mother!<, further strengthening their bond.

Ofc there are small fragments that I really liked, but it felt like a chore overall. Like a small necessary bump on the road to the tower. Maybe if I had read it in english my opinion would be different, but Im not so sure.

As a matter of fact, Im seriously thinking on skipping this book on my further trips to the tower. Only time will tell.

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