Peloton fined $19 million in fatal treadmill accident
washingtonpost.com/business/2023/01/05/peloto...Posted Jan 5, 2023, 11:18 PM UTC
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washingtonpost.com
Hot take (/s): kids shouldnāt play on exercise equipment
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there's a clear reason why kids aren't allowed in certain parts of gyms.....
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I remember at the time this sub blaming the users instead of the design. Some things never change.
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It's a piece of exercise equipment, not a playground, toy, or anything created to occupy/entertain children. Sorry but imo the people who knowingly let their kids play on their peloton are by the far the dumbest people involved in this whole thing.
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I mean - why would people change their minds when the facts haven't changed?
In the two years since Peloton introduced Tread lock, I haven't seen a bevy of reports of new incidents. This is in spite of that fact a bunch of people are still using the Tread+'s.
This is a pretty clear indication that the accidents would not have occurred but for people disregarding warnings to keep the safety key out of reach of children.
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Each of the four CPSC commissioners issued a statement about this. Three were not very surprising- stating they agree with what they are doing, thanking CPSC staff involved and basically just patting themselves on the back for doing something.
The statement from Commissioner Peter Feldman was very interesting, though:
"I remain concerned that CPSC lacks a coherent enforcement policy when it comes to civil penalties."
"Yet, in another recent failure-to-report case that involved fatalities, a similar number of incidents, and evidence of aggravating factors, this current Commission settled claims against Vornado Air, LLC for as little as $7.5 million. That settlement, which I opposed, arguably involved worse facts than Peloton given Vornadoās status as a repeat offender, and I still do not know how to explain the discrepancy in settlement amounts. No one at the Commission has articulated a coherent underlying doctrine or principle."
"Without principled decision-making, the product safety community will remain confused about the expectations the Commission is setting for how we will deal with similar conduct"
Basically saying what we're all thinking: this fine, on top of a nearly two year recall would make sense if they did it every time, or even most of the time, there is an accident involving a product. But we all know usually nothing happens. It really seems like someone just singled Peloton out.
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Um, I have a ton of Vornado fans and space heaters in my house. Iām going to have to look up these accidents. š¬
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It's only certain models... Lol my reaction was similar to yours and I was glad to see none of mine were affected models.
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It really seems like someone just singled Peloton out.
To me, it's the visibility factor. Peloton had and still has a very recognizable brand. At the height of the pandemic, so many people were talking about Peloton. Around the time the recall debacle occurred, their stock price was consistently above $100. It was everywhere.
More eyes on it meant the Tread+ had more visibility than say a Woodway or the Sole ST90. Whereas before, not many people knew about a slat belt treadmill and would have to already know about it to buy one, Peloton's visibility meant that the concept of a slat belt treadmill could reach many more consumers.
Instead of people having to learn about slat belt treadmills and find them, they'd learn about them just by shopping Peloton and checking out the brand.
In my opinion, Peloton was the top fitness brand during peak pandemic.
Add on the fact that at the height of their brand awareness, Foley was quite defiant toward the CPSC and held his ground, it doesn't surprise me that they took the approach they did - not that I fully agree with it.
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To piggyback off this comment, the fatal case picked up a lot of steam when it went viral. The CPSC almost had to make an example because as youāve noted, Peloton was very recognizable. Vornado is probably in many more homes and could have the potential to cause more catastrophe but they arenāt blasting themselves on TV as a social brand. A house may burn down as the result of faulty manufacturing of a Vornado and few people will know about it. Houses burn due to faulty electrical equipment on a regular basis, but you donāt hear of faulty treadmill designs causing many fatalities. I think thatās what caught peopleās attention and why the CPSC acted with a heavy hand.
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but you donāt hear of faulty treadmill designs causing many fatalities.
Yes you do!
Mike Tyson's daughter died when she strangled on a treadmill cord. Sheryl Sandberg's husband (and CEO of surveymonkey) died after he fell off a treadmill.
And there are plenty of treadmill fatalities not involving celebrities.
I've always considered it to be a fairly dangerous product category. But then, perhaps I'm biased because my wife has a scar on her knee from a treadmill accident when she was a kid. Long before Peloton was founded.
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Though very unfortunate, both were considered accidents not caused by design flaws. There is inherent risk with a treadmill but Iām specifically talking about publicity from design falls.
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It's actually not that Foley was defiant. It's that he was too honest.
When he sent the email to every member that there had been a fatal accident the CPSC wasn't on his case yet. It was literally hours after Peloton learned about the accident. (Foley stated it was hours after the incident in an interview)
If Foley hadn't said anything, it's likely the incident would have blown over (assuming they were able to settle out of court with the family). The CPSC rarely does anything at all when they receive an incident report other than post it on saferproducts.gov.
Foley's email triggered news articles and a puff piece by Inside Edition. A senator saw that puff piece and wrote the CPSC board demanding they do something, for a change. That letter is public, by the way. She literally states she learned about the problem by watching Inside Edition.
That's when the CPSC issued their own press release and the recall happened.
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It's been a while so I'm not certain on order of events. An initial email was sent out, but this is what I was referring to. Excerpt pasted below, emphasis mine. This was the defiance I was referring to.
You may also have read news reports suggesting that CPSC believes that we should stop selling or recall the Tread+. I want to assure you that we have no intention of doing so.
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I mean, sure, they pushed back on the recall a bit once the CPSC become involved but I suspect the CPSC never would have called for the recall in the first place but for the first email and subsequent media brouhaha.
Since grabbing the back of a moving treadmill is not intended usage, these accidents could have been easily termed user error. You just can't make that argument after the CEO has made it sound like a problem with the product itself.
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man passes brown envelope and nods to commission
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Itās tragic, but it was the parentās fault and not pelotonās. Just as you wouldnāt let a kid run wild in a gym, donāt let them around workout equipment in your home.
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Itās tragic, but it was the parentās fault and not pelotonās. Just as you wouldnāt let a kid run wild in a gym, donāt let them around workout equipment in your home.
More than one thing can be true.
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The parents screwed up.
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Peloton shouldn't have been selling treadmills meant for homes that are lacking basic safety features.
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Where does that line get drawn though
There are any number of things sold for home use that are inherently dangerous
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Pretty tough to make a chef's knife safe.
Pretty easy to add a safety bar to your treadmill design to prevent children and pets from getting sucked into the bottom of it. Other treadmill manufacturers do it.
https://www.woodway.com/product/curve-treadmill-buy/
See that little bar on the back? The engineers at Woodway put that on there so toddlers don't get killed.
Here's another example:
https://www.3gcardio.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Elite-Runner-Treadmill-c-scaled.jpg
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It's not that simple. Safety bars like that can be hazards in-and-of themselves. They provide protection in some accidents and other times they can even make it worse.
Imagine getting pinched between the moving tread and one of those bars. What if your hair or shoelace gets caught?
That can potentially be even more fatal than just getting pulled beneath the tread.
And there's lots of other types of potential treadmill accidents that have nothing to do with getting pulled under the rear roller.
It sounds like Peloton is going to put some sort of tail guard on the treadmill.
But the bars will not magically make treadmills safe for use by unattended children.
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The whole situation would've been easily avoided if the parent(s?) were actually watching their children, or told them no, or did whatever else parents do to get their kids to behave and not play on potentially dangerous exercise equipment.
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Reminiscent of the Harambe incident- something amazing was ruined bc of an irresponsible parent.
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This might be an unpopular opinion, but the giant spinning flywheel on the bike is just as dangerous. Keep kids out of the exercise area.
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That and the pedals are connected to it. My kids always want to ride the bike and I tell them absolutely not. Itās not a toy, itās not a childās bike. A kid getting underneath the pedal isnāt going to come out smiling either. I always compare it to an industrial mixer in my mind.
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When I was a kid, me and my cousin used to play on one of those weight lifting stations filled with pulleys and weights. We climbed all over it like it was a jungle gym. Looking back it was super dangerous and I canāt believe the adults allowed it.
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I donāt think just as dangerous. I donāt believe it could kill anyone. Take off some little fingers or a tail? For sure.
Eta: I still think this whole thing is bullshit. Have barbell/dumbbell companies gotten sued for this much for how dangerous they are? Work out equipment isnāt for kids. Itās an embarrassment of capitalism that this suit was so extreme, and those of us that love our peloton products might have negative repercussions due to the financial loss of the business.
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Have barbell/dumbbell companies gotten sued for this much for how dangerous they are?
Yes.
Much more, in fact.
Cybex went out of business mostly due to losing a single product liability suit. A personal trainer decided to use a leg extension machine as a stretching post and knocked it over on herself. The specific machine she knocked over had been there 25 years, in spite of the fact it was never bolted down.
She became a quadriplegic and somehow that is the fault of the company that made the leg press. So they owed her $66 million. Which of course they didn't have.
And this is the real reason why Peloton has to charge you $44/month to use equipment you already own. Every time you hop on they have liability.
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Oh! Wow, I had no idea. Thanks for such a helpful response šš»
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I sharpened mine, now my cheese steaks are perfect.
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This is a ridiculous fine. Shameful. They may not have done everything right, but other treadmills have the same issues, not exact maybe, but still. As a Tread owner, I couldn't be happier with the way they dealt with things. Irresponsible parents are the worst.
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First, other treadmills don't have this same flaw and other treadmills that have flaws that caused injuries have been recalled too (see horizon treadmills). Second the fine isn't because the treadmills had a flaw, its because Peloton knowingly violated the law in not following reporting requirements and by continuing to distribute treadmills after the recall which is also against the law. This fine isn't because of the injuries themselves and any "irresponsible parents" its either irresponsible lawyers or irresponsible Peloton management who didn't follow government regulations when injuries did occur. You don't get fines like this solely by creating a product that causes injuries.
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Agreed. Woodways typically have some bar beneath it, but they're also not super mainstream.
Peloton also exacerbated the issue by essentially defying the CPSC. Foley sent out a letter basically saying "they want us to stop but we have no intentions of doing so".
Super high visibility during the pandemic. Far higher demand for Peloton equipment than likely from other brands. Had this been the Peloton of like 2018 or 2019, maybe it's not as big of an issue. But it was at the height of the pandemic. People were looking at Peloton and their equipment. People were more likely to buy a Tread than a Woodway or other comparable slat treadmill.
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Nope. You are wrong. Lots of other treadmills have this issue. The only difference with the Tread is the opening at the front. This was for some reasons a personal case. There is nothing but irresponsible parenting to blame for any injuries sustained.
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Lol stop
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The worst? A kid lost their life in an accident, parents had to bury their child, and you rush to the side of the corporation who didnāt follow government safety regulations. Thatās shameful in my book.
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Voice of reason,thank you. Like a 6 year old literally died. Smh
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Do you not see the parents having any fault in this?
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Fuck off.
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A tragedy that wouldn't have happened if the parent had been watching their kid.
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I get that some parents lack boundaries and give their kids way too much freedom, but it also takes 2 seconds for a determined child to get into something they shouldnāt. Every, and mean EVERY parent has let their guard down at some point. Luckily, most of the time it doesnāt end in disaster and become a highly publicized incident.
We really donāt know whether these were irresponsible parents or just very unlucky. At any rate, theyāre paying the worst possible price. I donāt think they need the additional punishment of relentless judgement from internet strangers.
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I'm not "punishing" anyone, I just don't believe peloton is 100% at fault. They're not blameless, but it doesn't take much common sense to know that young kids shouldn't play with/around exercise equipment. There's a long history of companies being blamed for kids doing dumb shit because their parents weren't paying attention, and imo it's incredibly stupid to place 100% of the blame on the company every time.
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Learn how to read.
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So now that the cash has been paid, what the government really cared about again, other than going after a hot named brand, when will we get the Tread+ 2.0?
Patents have been released of new safety measures. Itās been nearly two years since the recall.
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I wasnāt part of the peloton community when the recall happened. What feature of it was causing these injuries or death to children?
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Children and pets standing behind the Tread+ were getting caught in the tread and being pulled underneath resulting in multiple injuries, and unfortunately, the death of a child. Peloton initially refused to recall the Tread+, but after suffering a storm of negative PR, reversed their decision and recalled all Tread+ products.
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The treadmill ate a baby
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What a paywall
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Ugh we are never getting the OG tread plus back are we š
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So where does this fine money go?
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Usually a fund for civil money penalties. Sometimes the penalties go to compensate people injured. Sometimes it goes to help fund operations of the regulator. Sometimes the money goes back to the US Treasury.
It is probably searchable online.
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I have always wonderedā¦
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This is like when Guildhall Wealth was fined $15 mil for an unfortunate smelting accident
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Please bring back the Tread+
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Monthly subscription price increase: activated!!
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They original Tread was a horrific design. I have the new Tread and I love it. Well as much as I can love a device that makes me runā¦ā¦ā¦ā¦..:,I loath the damn thing, but love what it does to my waist.
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It's done. It's over. It's recalled.
Now bring back the fucking tread plus in some way, shape and form.
Not too excited to see what the price will be though!
Agree.
I say $4k+
It was $4.2k prior to the recall, no? I'm wagering $5k+ unfortunately
Awww crap. You're right. I forgot the price point.
Yeah. $5k
Given the negative publicity, they might be forced to lower the price to increase the volume sold
Did someone say gait analysis? š¤
Absolutely just bring it back!!