Source
r/AskCulinary•
explosaurus

my soup is making fizzy, soda-like bubbles when i stir it at room temperature. is it still safe to eat?

my SO made this soup a few days ago. it sat out on the stove last night, covered. when i stirred it today it made lots of fizzy sort of bubbles, kind of the way soda does when it is poured. the only smell is a strong smell of soup.

the stock was made from scratch, and the only somewhat out-of-the-ordinary ingredient is the fact that we left the chicken bones in. the rest of the ingredients are all basic vegetables, no fancy spices.

help! this is a delicious soup and there's at least 4 more cups here, can i still eat it?

Posted Nov 28, 2012, 10:19 PM UTC

1555
valicatLine Cook•

Fizzy soda-like bubbles are the tell-tale sign of fermentation. If it were fermented, though, you would expect it to have an odd taste. If you say it tastes exactly the same, I would say it's unlikely to have fermented.

If it's still delicious and you're a healthy adult (not a child or elderly) with no recent organ transplants, a bad case of the Pregnancy, HIV-positive, etc, I say go ahead and eat it. Worst case scenario you have some amount of discomfort later when you're passing it.

17
TheOutlawJoseyWales•

Not sure why I was down voted, but the OP's soup circumstances are pretty spot on for botulism

From this site http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09305.html

Anaerobic conditions capable of supporting the growth of C. botulinum also have developed in such foods as chopped garlic in oil, foil-wrapped baked potatoes, roasted chili peppers in plastic bags, canned cheese sauce, sauteed onions, turkey loaves, meat stews and pot pies left at room temperature or in a warming oven overnight. In these cases the original baking killed competing organisms and eliminated much of the oxygen in the micro-environment under the crust, foil or buttery coating. Subsequent storage at warm temperatures created an ideal environment for the germination and growth of botulinum spores.

The point is, the endotoxins produced by the bacteria are harmful and not necessarily the bacteria itself

24
Kroan•

You were down voted because people don't like snarky comments. Could have just added the citation to your first comment. And also rewritten your first comment entirely.

6
workpuppy•

Botulism is incredibly uncommon. From the article you cited, there are about 10 reported cases a year of food borne botulism. Sure, you can have botulism contamination, but it's still unlikely.

C. botulinum has a higher temperature tolerance than a lot of bacteria, but it's not so high that a soup that rendered on the stove for several hours wouldn't be effectively sterile, so you'd need to somehow re-introduce botulism spores, etc.

You're far more likely to have botulism in canned/preserved goods, where the comparitively rare bacterium has a lot of time to replicate itself.

All that being said, I wouldn't eat anything that bubbled. Something is definitely going on in there.

4
clickfaster•

It sounds like when the stock was made the heat was too low allowing for the botulism to grow. I wouldn't eat it, as tasty as it may still seem there might be an underlying taste that your not catching amongst all the home made goodness.

1
RiddulCook•

Probably also because soup left out on the stove for one night is not by any stretch of the imagination an anaerobic environment...unless it was super tightly covered and there wasn't any air in the container. Seems unlikely in a soup pot?

1
valicatLine Cook•

Well, first of all, the botulism must be present. Like I said somewhere else in this thread, botulism doesn't magically grow in the soup because you left it sitting out overnight, that's not how it works.

The odds of the botulism actually being present are so abysmally small (unless the OP canned his own food and used foods contaminated with botulism in his soup) that I honestly would dismiss it. There have only been two major outbreaks of botulism, one in '07 and one in '71, where five contaminated cans were enough to destroy the entire company.

Just to give you a better understanding, this is how botulism works: the bacteria comes from the ground. It gets on the food that is pulled from the ground. We'll use a potato, for simplicity. This potato gets wrapped in foil, cutting off the botulism from air. Oh, goody! This is ideal for the botulism, because it needs an anaerobic environment to grow at all. The potato is thrown in an oven, and cooked. Unfortunately, botulism doesn't die until it reaches 250F. The heat of the oven wakes up the botulism. After being pulled from the oven, the botulism grows. While it sits on the counter, as you eat it, while it sits in your stomach. Then the toxins poison you and slowly paralyze you. Fortunately, the survival rate is 92%.

If you were to use, say, home-canned garlic in oil in the preparation of the soup that had botulism present and left it out on the counter overnight, absolutely the botulism would grow, sitting in the perfect environment.

But that botulism is not going to magically appear because you left it out overnight.

Hope this post was informative and not at all snarky.

Edit: typos

1
TheOutlawJoseyWales•

I was thinking that the botulism spores were introduced from garlic used in making of the soup. leave a soup for a few days - perhaps through a re-heating cycle, and once over night, and you have a chance for botulism growth.

1
valicatLine Cook•

That's plausible, but it would have to be (1.) botulism-contaminated garlic (2.) that OP canned (3.) incorrectly himself. That's a lot of variables.

It's not enough to just be botulism-contaminated garlic. Remember, it's needs an anaerobic environment; it has to be improperly canned, first.

1
explosaurusOP•

it still smells the same, perhaps a bit stronger than usual. haven't tasted it yet...

3
valicatLine Cook•

Well, taste it! Try a spoon. You don't have to swallow if it's bad.

Often with fermentation smell can be misleading. You can pull something out of the cooler and take a big whiff, but it's not until tasting it that you know for certain. The taste will go before the smell does, and when the smell goes, there's no need to taste.

5
explosaurusOP•

this taste before smell business is a good general tip, thanks!

3
TheOutlawJoseyWales•

Yea, try passing boutlism, or rather the endotoxins.

-1
armrha•

What is in the soup? Is it really salty or acidic? What was the temperature of the room it set in?

If it was a restaurant there'd be no question that you'd throw it out of course. Kinda your call if it's just you eating.

6
valicatLine Cook•

Unless he's making lemon and salt soup, I don't really think the soup could possibly be salty or acidic enough to stop nature from doing what it does best. I wouldn't consider the contents of the soup in the question of whether to keep it.

7
RhanaSous Chef•

But it would give better clues as to what caused it, it could be something dangerous like botchulism, if they had used canned products that would be my first thought. Especially since there was no altered smell, just the bubbling.

1
valicatLine Cook•

Botulism can only grow in an anaerobic environment. Soup left outnovernight does not magically grow botulism. That's not how it works. In canned foods it is extraordinarily rare and really only occurs in home-canning.

6
RhanaSous Chef•

TIL. But there are others out there, personally I wouldn't eat it, but maybe that's just ServSafe talking.

1
BattleHall•

Hot and sour soup?

1
valicatLine Cook•

Not even hot and sour soup.

1
explosaurusOP•

mirapois, potatoes, peas, corn, pepper, chicken, rice, cauliflower and a bit of brocolli. i would say it's more on the salty side. i'm not sure of the exact temp of the room since we don't have digital thermostats, but somewhere between 18-20 degrees celsius.

obviously i wouldn't serve it to anyone, but i am mourning its potential loss to my belly.

2
moikederp•

Fizzy means that something is going on. Fermentation or some other reaction. I mean, if you added a base recently, like baking soda to an acidic dish, that might explain it, but since it's a few days old and sat unchilled overnight, it may very well be fermenting.

It doesn't mean that it is necessarily bad, but since that was not the intended form, I'd opt to toss it - you also don't know exactly what reaction is taking place. Spontaneous fermentation is my guess having nothing else to go on, and it can happen easily in a couple of hours or days by accident if the conditions are correct.

tl;dr: Unless you did it on purpose, which you did not, toss it.

6
[deleted]•

Don't worry, that's just some wild yeast. it basically just carbonated your soup overnight by eating some of the available sugars. bring it back to a low boil for a minute or two, and it will be just fine and dandy. unless there is a particularly sour flavor (which you would notice), it's entirely safe. yay for soup.

5
[deleted]•

I wouldn't, but I'm rather overly cautious. You could heat a serving to boiling before eating it. You would be extremely unlikely to get sick or anything if you did so.

4
themagr•

When in doubt, throw it out. Fizzy bubbles is NOT a good sign.

2
TheOutlawJoseyWales•

I don't think it's fermentation!

The gas in the soup nucleates(form bubbles) on the side of the soup vessel and on the veggies or whatever is in your soup. When you stir it, the bubbles are agitated and release(causing the fizziness)

Try setting a pot of water overnight. You will notice bubbles form on the side of the pot.

2
zachwad22•

Sounds more like just nucleation or trapped air from stirring being released than fermentation. Food safety is important, but the people here crying stay away! are overplaying the danger a little. As Valicat said, if you're otherwise healthy, you're basically 99.9% good to go.

2
Whataboutthatguy•

After 2 hours at the wrong temp eating it is a good way to spend the next three days in the bathroom with liquid shooting out of EVERYTHING.

Not worth it.

1
valicatLine Cook•

Two hours might be the official ServSafe cutoff, but if you think that's what happens after eating food that's been left out for two hours, you must never have actually gotten food poisoning before.

9
Whataboutthatguy•

I'm exaggerating slightly I will admit. I usually go with the philosophy of "Would I pay whatever value of money is left in this food item to have not eaten it if it ends up poisoning me." The $2 in chicken soup looks a little less appealing in that light.

1
valicatLine Cook•

Slightly! Haha. I am poor and often choose to bite the bullet and eat delicious food if left out overnight. One notable occasion a log of high-quality mozzarella we bought to make pizza from scratch with fell out of the grocery bag on the way home. We found it in the car late the next day, or maybe the day after. Anyway, we ate it. I experienced some mild discomfort in the stomach, but my boyfriend experienced nothing. Generally when we make these calls the worst that happens is diarrhea that passes quickly enough. Never any reactions serious enough to make us stop making these calls.

3
scurvebeard•

Drier cheeses are usually fine to sit out overnight, especially if the room is somewhat cool. Same for eggs (whole eggs, obviously.)

That's how our ancestors did it before fridges - just shove that shit in the nice cool cellar.

3
Whataboutthatguy•

And it does depend on the item. Bread of course is fine for example. Shrimp? Yea, going to pass. Beef jerky? Well forever obviously. It's always a judgement call based on how much you like the food and what you're willing to endure should you be wrong. In the case of the original post we're talking about something that is a rich environment for bacteria when left at room temperature for extended periods of time. Ex: lots of food, moisture and warmth.

1
valicatLine Cook•

I bet you're the type that throws out the eggs if they're left on the counter overnight.

3
Whataboutthatguy•

Depends, if the eggs have never been refrigerated they are good for weeks at room temp. Once cooled that time goes down to days.

0
[deleted]•

really? what facilitates this change?

5
Whataboutthatguy•

Typically when eggs are laid they are covered in a thin membrane that keeps out bacteria. When taken to stores this harmless but unappetizing layer is washed off which means it needs to be kept at a safe cool temp from then on. Buy farm fresh eggs from the source and they will last a good long while out on the shelf at room temp. Maybe even months.

2
AntiMe•

Nothing, he's misstating the issue. If the eggs have been commercially washed then they are susceptible to bacteria getting into them and should be kept refrigerated. If they haven't they're good for at least a month sitting at room temperature, several months even I've heard.

2
woxy_lutz•

Paranoid much? I eat stews/chilli/tomato sauces that have been left covered on the stove overnight all the time (2/3 times a week) and my digestive system has never suffered for it. Just make sure you reheat it thoroughly. No need to waste perfectly good food because it's been out for two whole hours.

2
Whataboutthatguy•

Yes, I am paranoid. I much prefer to err on the side of caution. My suggestions are more of a worst case scenario for someone just starting out rather than someone who knows what they can handle. I figure once someone knows the minimums they can make an educated decision for themselves.

I ride a motorcycle, so I know something about not caring if it's safe or not. ;)

1
landonain•

no. no. no. Please don't eat this it's just not a good idea, there is a good chance you can make yourself very sick.

1
megatooththesecond•

I'm sure you've either eaten or thrown out the soup by now but whatever.

I can't say a lot about the bubbles because I have no clue what that's about, although it's probably not a good thing. What I do know is that the NFSP in Canada gives max 6 hours to cool things down before they need to be stored below 40F or 4C. Even if you heat the soup up really well and kill all the bacteria there will still be toxins that are potentially super harmful and heat resistant.

So basically you may be ok or it may give you a serious case of the shits or worse.

1
armrha•

So to sum up, a day later...

The worst kind of thing that could happen to your soup is getting endotoxins from C. botulinum, which thrives in anaerobic environments. The endotoxins are just about the most lethal thing in the world, having been studied as a potential bioweapon as it is so potent that it takes about 75 nanograms to kill a person and 1 kilogram would be enough to kill the entire human population.

You see botulism growth in things like canned goods that haven't been adequately heated because it makes a perfect anaerobic environment for them to sit and multiply for months. Also in improperly cured salume, which hangs at room temperature for a long time.

Any other kind of bacterial growth is possible too, so there's a range of less INSANELY LETHAL stuff that could have grown in there. It's certain bacteria from your kitchen got in there, it's just a matter of how dangerous the ones that got in are.

It's also possible that the soup, having bubbled away happily for a while, was effectively abiotic enough at the point of it sitting out in the danger zone could have been fine for at least a little while. Many of us seem to have eaten soup that has sat out overnight without repercussions, sometimes even many times, and while anecdotal, it probably says something about the general safety of it.

I would just look at it like a roll of the dice. There's some non-zero chance of dying from eating the soup. It's probably a relatively small chance, requiring some chunk of food you have sitting submersed in the soup happening to be contaminated with C. botulinum deep inside of it, and it somehow escaped sterilization (which could be pretty unlikely depending on how long the soup simmered). It'd be safer to not eat the soup. But you'll probably be okay. But you might die. So, your call. Geeze. We aren't that helpful.

But stick to the ServSafe guidelines if you are serivng food for anybody else, as they don't get the luxury of sitting around and deciding to risk their lives, however minimal, for a bowl of soup...

1
laurenbug2186•

I would never eat something that sat on the stove all night. That's food poisoning just waiting to happen.

0
scurvebeard•

And here I am leaving food to cook in a crock pot overnight...

1
billin•

You must not be Asian. My Mom used to leave food out on the stove overnight all the time - it was perfectly normal from her upbringing in Taiwan. Of course, that may explain why I have a cast iron stomach and can tolerate all sorts of things that send my friends to the porcelain throne.

1
laurenbug2186•

Yeah, my husband is Polish and his family leaves food sitting around all the time. It's just what you're raised with. I don't know why I'm getting downvoted so much!

2
alkw0ia•

So I guess you don't eat bread, beer, or wine?

0
laurenbug2186•

I meant something that is normally intended to be refrigerated.

1