Source
r/fireemblem•
Uberasha

Who’s the strongest lord/avatar lord wise?

General

Strongest forms, even if it’s a fallen/evil form.

Because of that I’d give it to Robin due to grima basically being just as if not more powerful than Naga, who need I remind you is essentially the most powerful dragon we’ve seen in the franchise. Grima quite literally ended the world and was only defeated due to time travel shenanigans beyond Sothis wildest dreams.

People like to say Corrin or Byleth for this, but I’d like to provide a rebuttal for both. For Corrin, Anankos outright states that Naga is more powerful than him after finding out she sent so many people so far back in time. Because of this I’d say we can scale the powerhouses of the archanea/valentia/jugdral world higher than that of fateslandia as they’ve often contended with naga level threats, while anankos is the biggest threat corrin has fought.

Byleth suffers from a case of severe overhype. While they do have time manipulation powers at their disposal and a very powerful sword, we know that doesn’t make them infallible. Judging by Byleth failing to save jeralt even when using divine pulse, it’s clear that divine pulse can still fail if a threat is strong enough. Even after fusing with Sothis Byleth got fucked up during the battle of gareg Mach, and would even go on to struggle with characters such as nemesis and Rhea. We can also compare feats from the world of three houses to both fates and the OG world as well.

While naga is definitely more powerful than anankos, I think we can also conclude anankos is more powerful than Sothis. Anankos was able to pull off the same feat that Sothis did, healing a large amount of land, in another world no less, but didn’t have to go into a deep slumber immediately after. In fact, it was something that was rather easy for him to do, and it’s not as if anankos is without his own hax as well considering he opened a portal through dimensions to reach the awakening world for support.

Again, while Byleth is definitely strong, I’d say their power is oversold by a lot of people. I don’t think they realistically have any means to actually hurt or deal with absolute monsters like grima!Robin.

If I could put out a ranking of the top 5, it would probably go a little like this.

Robin(Grima form is simply too broken) Ike(Has killed a literal god, and honestly you could make a case for him being above Robin at the end of radiant dawn especially with the heroes statements, but I just say it’s hard to compare feats accurately with grimas. Of pure raw destructive power, it would go to robin IMO) Seliph/Sigurd(not sure which one is stronger of the two, though I slightly lean towards Seliph. Regardless they both have the whole holy blood thing going on and are fucking monsters in the lore) Corrin(Their revelation version, not the pussy ass birthright version that was implied to not even be stronger than Xander) Byleth(I’d say while probably the strongest fighter in their own world, their god powers just don’t match up to the likes of fateslandia, the world of PoR/RD, or the archanea world’s gods)

I’d say I’d probably rank the non demigod/god killing characters separate, simply by the nature of it being a bit unfair. I’d like to put my vote here for either Ephraim or Alm, both of them being able to essentially conquer/fight an entire continent with very little resources at their disposal. You could also make an argument for Dimitri here considering he canonically plays musou games IRL with imperial soldiers, though his feats don't seem to be as batshit crazy as Ephraim or Alm’s.

So what do you guys think?

Posted Dec 4, 2023, 6:39 AM UTC

154
LinkdAether•

Reading post about power speculation

Scale

Feats

Hax

:|

33
Echo1138•

It's Ephraim. He doesn't pick fights he can't win.

32
EmiliaFromLV•

Or Lucina cause she was Marth anyway.

5
UberashaOP•

The berserk staff:

5
Fledbeast578:Sain-2::Narcian-2:•

Lyn, she has a cool sword.

19
Gilgamesh_XII•

Probably byleth due to having the power of an actual god. Time control and so is pretty darn powerfull.

15
UberashaOP•

That power isn’t infallible however, considering he’s gotten fucked up before and wasn’t able to save jeralt even with divine pulse. I just don’t see him contending with Ike or Robin

3
Gilgamesh_XII•

You realize that was before awakening. Byleths power SKYROCKETED afterwards.

Tbh i dont even see robin compete with the likes of ike and byleth.

-3
UberashaOP•

Sorry but no. Byleth still got fucked up by Thales even with eyes backing them up during the battle of Garreg Mach. Byleth also was unable to take on nemesis or Rhea on their own as seen in cutscenes, particularly nemesis who was giving both them and Claude a run for their money. Depending on whether you want to dismiss it as just a narrative flaw or an actual legitimate occurrence, Byleth also fails to save rodrigue in AM. Their power may have increased a shit ton, but their “god powers” are still very limited despite what a lot of people think.

Ike and Grima on the other hand possess destructive feats that Byleth just doesn’t have any way to contend with. It’s like trying to rewind time to survive the Hiroshima bomb as a resident.

3
Gilgamesh_XII•

Fair. For its powers,byleth sometimes is overwhelmed. But the sheer feat of breaking out of a dimension with no escape and time rewind is big. But wdym by thales fucked them up?

And tbh if we break it down grima was defeated by base robin who has no serius powers himself(if that is canon.) Grimas direct power is a bit wonky there too i feel. Very destructive indeed but limited there i feel.

1
xdanxlei•

Haven't played 3H but didn't Ike also get the full power or a goddess during the final fight? Or was that just for one attack and one attack only?

1†
cearav:Sephiran::Altina:•

Yeah, just for one attack so he can defeat (not really kill) another goddess, while Byleth has it for the rest of their life & can manipulate time (not significantly from what I remember tho)

12
UberashaOP•

I’m counting yune boosted Ike here since we’re already technically counting Sothis and grimas powers for Byleth and Robin respectively. I consider them all borrowed powers.

3
Armiebuffie•

Is there really any indication that Ashera isn’t permanently killed if Lehran wasn’t recruited? They make it clear that Ashera can permanently kill Yune if she wanted to and intended to do so before Lehran persuaded her otherwise. I can see Yune not being able to convince Ashera to stand down and has her destroyed. It’s only with Lehran’s recruitment where Ashera might be convinced to reunite with Yune after her defeat which they do.

1
LukeExists•

did we just completely forget Alm and Celica also have access to Mila's turnwheell?

1
Motivated-Chair•

Keep the death battle bullshit in the ecochamber where they care about it, we don't here.

14
UberashaOP•

What do we care about here? Edelgard art dumps?

-4
Motivated-Chair•

Gameplay, discuss character relationships, art, romhacks...

Many things that don't devolve into a "no you competition" over the fisics of fictional worlds that were focus on telling a good stroy instead of a cockfight.

1†
UberashaOP•

That’s some pretty gross romanticism. This sub is notorious for being an art dump with relatively no discussion of any note, particularly with anything besides three houses or pre awakening.

Power scaling also isn’t just cockfighting. There’s tons of interesting stuff involved with it. I’m sorry you may have had bad experiences with it in the past, as have I, but that doesn’t mean all of it sucks just because “it’s power scaling”.

-3†
Echo1138•

The main problem is that it's by nature extremely inconsistent and open to an individual's interpretation, and it's also been talked about to death by now.

So you kind of get into the circular arguments where you technically can't say that someone's opposing argument is objectively wrong, but you can make a contradictory argument that is equally correct. Which leads to very annoying discussions where everybody is fighting and nobody is correct.

4
Backburst:Stefan:•

Powerscaling is bad because you forget that as a narrative experience, you're main character is actually invincible because he has to complete the game. So all characters you have survive have infinite hax and are outerversal no diffing Zeno and YHWH because you just reset until you have a perfect run.

Also, Ike killed a god only with that god's opposite giving him all her power. He's just a dude who's good with a sword. Best lord, but just a dude.

13
MrEmptySet:Fae::Elise-2::Zephiel-2::Sephiran-2:•

Personally I don't care about anyone's arguments about powerscaling, feats, etc.

Ike claps every other lord, low diff, hands down.

12
UberashaOP•

Based

-1
AlexTheGreat1997•

I feel like it still has to go to Byleth in spite of what you said.

I don't understand the point of bringing up the fact that Byleth's time powers are "infallible". The only reason that people like Thales are able to counteract them is because they have extensive knowledge of the goddess's powers passed down by the Ten Elites and probably Nemesis. There is nothing resembling that kind of power within any FE land outside Fódlan, so, if Byleth were to fight a Lord from another game and throw down the Divine Pulse, they would have no way of seeing it coming and possess legitimately nothing to defeat it.

Also, if the idea is to find a character with "infallibility", then, you have to throw Grima out, too. Grima can kill himself, and he can be forced back into a very long slumber if sealed by Falchion. There's nothing about Grima's power set that makes him "infallible", either.

I'm not convinced of the idea that Sothis isn't on the level of Anankos or Naga, either. It took her awhile to restore the land, yes, but Rhea states she fell into a deep slumber because she "fulfilled her duty", which is kind of vague. Byleth's time powers are also the result of having Sothis's heart - the Sword of the Creator's Crest Stone - grafted to their heart. Just her heart, and they are able to manipulate time. I can only imagine what Sothis is capable of when in full control of her body and mental faculties.

The Sword of the Creator, through Combat arts, also possesses anti-dragon powers. Obviously, it's nothing on the level of Falchion, but to say that Byleth has nothing to deal heavy damage to a dragon-like foe is simply incorrect. Even if they didn't, the Sword of the Creator is still an incredibly powerful weapon and could probably damage incredibly powerful threats like Grima.

There's also the simple fact that Byleth is monstrously strong even without their Sothis powers. In Hopes, Jeralt describes Berling, Shez's beginner mercenary captain, as "an army unto herself", and Byleth manages to do away with her without even really trying to. All three paths Byleth win or escape from incredibly dangerous situations meant to target them specifically. In Scarlet Blaze, they face the Empire's most powerful Warrior, Count Bergliez, in single combat, and force him to retreat. In Azure Gleam, they are met with a platoon of cavalry units and manage to kill or deeply wound most of them with no outside assistance and force them to retreat while stranded in enemy territory. In Golden Wildfire, they are trapped in an encampment and manage to break out while being bombarded by ballistae. The kicker? They can still fight after all of this. They're not at their best after these situations, for sure; in fact, they're heavily weakened. But any of these three situations are tantamount to death for the vast majority of the characters, and Byleth manages to not only survive all these instances, but come out on top.

All this is to say to the following; Byleth is unbelievably powerful even without her Sothis powers or the Sword of the Creator. I mean, that Ashen Demon title was a thing before she even came to the Officer's Academy, let alone touched the Sword of the Creator. You throw the Sword of the Creator and Divine Pulse into the mix, and you've got god-level power and skill with all the compassion and softness of a cell on Alcatraz island.

I think you gotta give it to Byleth.

6
jatxna•

I have always found it strange how people interpret the power of Sothis. Beyond that she is not a goddess. Much of the entire plot of Three Houses occurs because Sothis is weakened enough after rebuilding the world that it was easy to kill her when she was sleeping. And of course, Sothis's great achievement that leaves her terribly weak, makes it by a weak and desperate fragment of Anakos in Fates. On the other hand, Sothis says that you cannot change fate and everything that happens in Awakening is "changing the fate", while Sothis goes back a few seconds, Naga does so more than 17 years.

Without forgetting that one of the main themes of Three Houses is propaganda and exaggeration of the power of the crests.

3
Armiebuffie•

By that logic Ashera and Yune also aren’t goddesses because they are too weak to spam their attacks, Yune gets tired out from blessing your army, they have shown no capacity to control time, dimension travel, or fully revive the dead, like some of the other top level characters and Yune was about to be permanently killed by Ashera while Ashera is heavily implied to be permanently destroyed in the ending where Lehran isn’t recruited. Also, while Sothis is killed, she is still revivable with her memory intact and even with her crest stone gone in CF she can still talk to Byleth.

1
UberashaOP•

I still don’t see Byleth as the strongest. While yes TWSITD has knowledge of Sothis to an extent, Thales never actually says anything that refers to divine pulse or uses anything specific to counter it. That’s an unfounded claim. Byleth has also gotten fucked up on numerous occasions by characters that do not have feats that contend with grima or Ike, both nemesis and Thales, and neither of those ever really did anything that straight up counters Byleths time powers. They were just too strong for them.

Grima quite literally ended the world. It is by far the greatest feat in probably all of FE as far as I can think of. Maybe naga has a greater feat than that, but regardless, grimas destructive power is something that Byleth simply has no way to deal with. I’m not saying that Byleth can’t harm Grima because they don’t have a weapon that can hurt dragons, I’m saying they can’t harm grima because they’re not strong enough. Hell the only reason Robin and Chrom were really able to fight Grima is because Grima was still attempting to take control of Robin at the time, and because naga gave them a shit ton of help.

My main point is though is that Byleths time control powers cannot save them from the sheer destructive power Robin and Ike possess, though you could definitely make an argument for corrin and Seliph/Sigurd.

2
jatxna•

I'm not going to get into the discussion of who is the strongest/most powerful character. Although I already say that I don't think any character from Three Houses falls into that category. However, I have to say that people who use statistics as a marker of something seem particularly stupid to me. Marth, Alm, Seliph, Chrom and Robin are characters that belong to the same world. But the differences between their statistical and top growth are notable. And the reason has nothing to do with the power of the characters, but rather the programming of the game, because the way in which the game calculates the mathematical variables of combat are different between each game. It is extremely stupid to have to say this, But here I am..

On the other hand, even though three houses allow you to reach level 99, it is normal to spend the game at level 40.

6
UberashaOP•

Plus you’d have to basically give all of the exp in the game to one unit for level 99 lol

I joke about stats but yeah they definitely don’t matter in this case

1
knifetomeetyou13•

Ike has always felt the most powerful to me, the man faced down a goddess and told her to pray. Dunno if he’s actually the most powerful tho

5
UberashaOP•

Supposedly according to heroes he is

3
seynical:Navarre-4:•

Lord Kaga

4
ButWahy•

Byleth has the highest stat caps

3†
UberashaOP•

Robin gets galeforce

2
ButWahy•

Doesnt matter if he deals 0x2 dmg

1
UberashaOP•

Navarre!Robin

2
Megamatt215•

Ike. He's the only one who is forced to solo his final boss. He canonically soloed Ashera

3
Echo1138•

I'm not saying you're incorrect that Ike wins, but Ike, by definition, did not solo Ashera. He had the help of all his allies to whittle her down, and the final blow was an assist from Yune!Micaiah.

4
BlackroseBisharp•

Ike maybe?

3
Express_Accident2329•

Ike was stated to be the strongest, and at the peak of his power has godlike abilities. The only others who should be part of the conversation are Alear, who was added to the series after Ike being declared the strongest and is arguably stronger by virtue of being able to summon some version of Ike, and Byleth, who I think we can assumed would lose a straight up fight, but who has some degree of poorly defined time travel and other divine powers that open the door to various hypotheticals in a similar way to "But what if Batman had kryptonite?"

3
sirgamestop:Titania-2::Sigurd::Echidna::Ike-2::El-3:•

Ike empowered by Yune by far, it's outright been stated in Heroes he's the strongest

2†
beancant776•

I agree. Not because of power scaling but because i like him:)

2
UberashaOP•

Yeah honestly I agree. I always switch up between him and Robin though because it’s basically a feats vs statements argument lol

1
sirgamestop:Titania-2::Sigurd::Echidna::Ike-2::El-3:•

I mean even feats whise Yune and Ashera are both at least as strong as Grima. Grima can threaten to destroy the planet while Ashunera actually did (except Tellius

2
Armiebuffie•

This argument always forgets that Grima had an equal god tier being opposing him while Ashunera had nobody on her level opposing her. Feats wise Ashunera has not shown the ability to control time, dimension travel, nor fully revive the dead that other god tier characters have done. Grima also does always successfully destroy the planet in every timeline where Naga hadn’t resorted for help from other timelines. He only fails in timelines that have two timelines opposing him and always requires a Robin (who utilizes his own power) being closely bonded with the Shepards.

3
UberashaOP•

Fair lol, you take the W

2
vortechnic:Hardin_B2::Rudolf-2::Arvis_G1-2::El_P2:•

Probably either Ike, Edelgard, or Dimitri. I feel like none of them really get to the insane feats as those 3. I agree that Robin would be up there, though.

1†
AxelFive•

Hector wields a man sized axe in his non dominant hand. Just saying.

1†
sirgamestop:Titania-2::Sigurd::Echidna::Ike-2::El-3:•

Edelgard wields an axe larger than her and can jump 20+ feet in the air in heavy armor lol

3
D-Brigade:RobinF:•

Ike is the strongest in the literal sense. He has the biggest muscles.

1
DDBofTheStars:Ephraim:•

Its Alear. They can summon all of the other lords up as rings to power themselves and their army up.

1