Anyone that deals with hard drives, computers, SDs, any electronics really.. knows these things will fail eventually. Are we doomed to roll to the next storage device every few years to minimize the chance of our keys being lost?
What is the 50 year solution ? Seed phrase in a secure location? Appreciate ideas for the long haul cold solution.
Posted Dec 18, 2023, 1:46 AM UTC
Metal plate with your words, that's it.
I got them tattooed on my neck. Impossible to lose.
Don't assume your seed phrase will work in 50 years. Anybody who ignores their Bitcoin for more than 3 years is likely to find it difficult to access. Stay informed about changes. Do not be caught short, "Oh but Reddit told me my seed phrase would be good for 50 years"
yes i'm surprised not more people are saying this. from what i hear it can be tricky to restore early wallets or early private keys etc.. who knows if seed phrases will still be supported in 50 years, or if bitcoin is still around the way we know it. chances are everyone's gonna have to perform some action to quantum proof their coins in the meantime anyway
from what i hear it can be tricky to restore early wallets
If the wallet you used is no longer maintained, it can be.
or early private keys
As long as you have the actual hex or WIF private key, you can import it into anything. The problem, again, is with wallets that no longer exist and used some proprietary format, or just stored everything encrypted so that you can't access it any longer.
Don’t ignore bitcoin for 3 years? What are you talking about?
How could recovery seeds not be accessible in 50 years?
Honestly you don’t seem to know what you are talking about.
You're one of those people who believes the future is the same as the present
For seed phrase storage which as others have pointed out is as crucial as the wallet used, one option is to encode your seed phrase in a way that nobody could decrypt without knowing the method used.
For example select a PDF version of a dictionary and use it to encode the seed phrase words by their location in the text say using page number and word position on the page.
Then you have a digitally encoded seed phase which requires a specific text to decode- as long as you keep the knowledge of these two components separate you have extremely high security and you can pass on this knowledge with relative ease.
The digitally encoded seed phrase can be kept on a device or as a poster on the wall (not advised though!) because without the knowledge of how to decode and possession of the relevant PDF file it is of no use to any potential thief.
Billfodl.
Stamp your mnemonic seed into steel or titanium with a hammer.
Steel plate with 24 words
Well, guess I wouldn't do anything that was set-it-and-forget-it for 50 years. But in a general sense, I suppose I write my BIP39 seed-mnemonic on archival paper with an archivist pen. But then I would also want to print out the BIP39 specification on archival paper as well. As well as the Bitcoin specification. And finally I would save a copy of the source code to Linux, Python, Electrum, and GPG, in hopes of being able to build a functioning wallet after 50 years.
But most importantly, I'd refresh all of this stuff every 10 years at least.
The devs try very hard to make sure everything remains backward-compatible. That said, there's always the risk that more advanced mathematical discoveries can force a change that might not be. If someone found a way to reverse elliptic curve calculations, Bitcoin would immediately be in trouble.
Ask me in 50 years.
HWs are explicit reliance upon and trust in third party gadgets.
Avoid them. They can be hacked, stolen, lost or malfunction.
They are for blind consumers who surrender their monetary sovereignty.
Learn instead how to build and manage your own sovereign cold storage.
See Electrum.org docs on cold storage.
Ideally build your own node too but this is not essential.
Preferably only use Linux OS for any serious Bitcoin computing.
You're assuming that a bug won't be found in the consensus code of bitcoin that will require a patch. If you ignore a patch, it may expose you to a loss of funds.
you could burn it on special DVDs called "millenium DVDs". they will proabably last a long time (maybe not 1000 years)
As many others have pointed out here, it’s all about the seed phrase. Secure that and you secure your storage.
Cheap option: Type or write your seed phrase onto a piece of paper and then get it laminated. It is now secure from the elements (apart from fire). Not so cheap option: Do as the cheap option, but then buy a fire proof safe to store it in. Expensive option: Get your seed phrase stamped onto a metal sheet. Now secure from all elements.
I have a home server with NAS in Raid 6. I replace drives every 3-4 years. The lifecycle drives are still usable and reliable and are repurposed.
I have a second but cloud-based NAS using S3 storage. I use a S3 FIPS endpoint to connect and send data. Costs are low because I rarely access the data.
I feel relatively safe with old school paper wallets which are literally a simple pairing of address and private key. I created mine years ago on a new computer, but it is not recommended to create paper wallets today. Also it has been suggested that quantum physics could make it easier to determine a private key in the future, and jeopardize the safety of an existing paper wallet.
If a hardware wallet were hacked into and bitcoin stolen, you would need to get a new wallet and a new passphrase, so I think passphrases lack the permanence that many ascribe to them.
Technology is always changing, and scamming methods evolve, so hardware storage devices will also need to evolve. Back in the 1960s and 70s we made audio recordings on an old reel-to-reel tape machine, and home movies using a super 8 camera. In the 80s and 90s we transferred the audio tapes to cassettes tapes and the home movies to VHS tapes. Very recently I converted these recordings to MP3s and MP4s. If I would live long enough, these (now) digital files would almost certainly need to undergo another metamorphosis or face extinction. The same principle applies to the hardware wallets of today. Nothing lasts forever .
This seems like Bitcoin’s biggest weakness. You don’t lose your fiat if you lose your banking password.
That is because with fiat you do not have custody and control of your money except when you hold cash...even then that cash is being constantly debased...
A banking password and recovery seed are not equivalent. If you think they are then you don’t understand what a recovery seed is.
The equivalent to a recovery seed is physical cash.
If you lose physical cash…you lose your money.
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The wallet isn't as important as the seed phrase. The seed phrase is all important, and must be backed up and kept secure.
Back up your seed phrase.
Some people stamp it onto metal.
Simpler: Create two handwritten copies on decent paper with a graphite pencil. Don't use a computer printer, your seed phrase could become compromised. Don't write it with ink, it might fade but a graphite pencil will not.
Double, then triple check the copies for accuracy. Remember, your life savings are at stake.
Store each copy to protect it from moisture and/or paper-eating insects, mold, etc. For example, ziploc baggies, small plastic bottles, pvc sprinkler tubing capped at the ends.
Store the copies in separate locations in case of fire, flood, etc. Think long and hard about really, really good hiding locations.
A home safe is a bad location. During a potential home invasion robbery, they will aim a gun at your head and force you to open your safe -- make sure your seed phrase is not inside.
Similarly, so-called "safe deposit boxes" are not all that secure. Bad places for seed phrases.
Better places might include a gap behind some dry wall which has then been patched and repainted.
In addition to having written copies in separate locations, memorize your seed phrase and quietly rehearse it at least once per day, ideally in the bathroom with the door shut, the fan running, and the water running (and no phones, cameras, or other microphoned devices nearby).
The names Bond, James Bond.
So live and let die.
to the moonraker, quick
I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.
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I actually think this might stop further crypto adoption. Imagine trying to get older generations to adopt these things. Most people can’t even remember a simple password for their bank. The stakes are so high with btc, better more secure solutions need to be developed
I'm "older". Many of my friends are "older". Contrary to your messed up thinking, we're not stupid. We're not senile. Many of us are very smart, and wise.
We don't forget the password to our bank. No. You just make shit up.
You're probably NGMI in life unless you work on obtaining better thinking skills.