Welcome to the discussions for The Legend of Rosy Clouds!

🌟This post is for episodes 17-18 please use spoiler tags for any eps beyond these🌟

🌟Other media spoilers: Please use spoiler tags when discussing significant plot points from the Saiunkoku Monogatari light novels, anime, or manga.

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Index | Masterpost | Ep 1-3 | Eps 4-6 | Ep 7-8 | Ep 9-10 | Eps 11-12 | Eps 13-14 | Eps 15-16

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Discussion posts will be a day behind the iQIYI airing schedule, with your hosts posting according to their own timezones and availability. Next up will be u/not_enough_griffons with eps 19-20.

No new characters in ep 17. Lord Lu Yan, the vice-manager of the office of rites is introduced in ep 18.

Previously on Legend of Rosy Clouds...

Qi Zheng tells Fan Yun there's an alternative way to become an official. Turns out, you don't need to take the imperial exam, you just need the recommendation of a high-ranking official. So....nepotism? Fan Yun is super happy but she wants to wait for the imperial exam results to be out first before she pursues this route.

The outcome of the Imperial Exam

Back to the imperial exam venue, Zheng Shi dozed off. I guess he really doesn't care. 😛

Fan Yun waits eagerly outside to greet her friends after the exam...since when is Zheng Shi part of the group?! What happened to your eyes opening up about who he is in the previous episode?!

Zheng Shi, Wei Rong and Tian Xing discusses their essay question with Fan Yun. Should the focus be on governing officials or governing the common people? Bo Qin butts in and say governing the people is of priority because he read a famous article that argued for that. He's confident that he'll do well for the exam. Fan Yun disagrees, she believes that the government should focus on governing its officials, because having good officials means that the government will be more effective and efficient at generating benefits for the citizens. Tian Xing agrees.

When grading the papers, there's no discrepancy on who should be 3rd place. But the top 2 essays have opposing views - one for governing the officials and governing the citizens. Ironically, Elder Zheng has reached the same conclusion as Fan Yun and Tian Xing whom he so opposes, but his reasoning was different. He felt that commoners cannot be trusted to be good officials so more effort should be spent on monitoring them to make sure they don't screw up.

The results are in!

1st place - Tian Xing

2nd place - Wei Rong

3rd place - Bo Qin

23rd place - Zheng Shi

Tian Xing was happy, Wei Rong was indifferent (he's a genius like Fan Qi noticed) and Bo Qin was mad that he lost to a young commoner boy. He's so mad he fainted. Tian Xing, once again showing his medical knowledge, helped Bo Qin regained conscious. Not appreciating Tian Xing's help, Bo Qin left in frustration.

Zheng Shi didn't care, but he seemed touched that Fan Yun appeared disappointed and puzzled on his behalf.

How Fan Yun become an official

With the imperial exam settled, Fan Yun goes ahead to hit the Dengwen Drum. I guess the emperor and his advisors need to drop everything to listen to whoever hits this drum. They're lucky the citizens of the Nine Cities have not abused this priviledge!

https://i.redd.it/qyyuk31rpw9h1.gif

Good job, Fan Yun! For not breaking the drum this time! I see that you have practice from when you had a Dream within a Dream!

Jiang Shu steps out to officially recommend Fan Yun to become an official. Turns out, it's nepotism with an extra step. Anyone who has made major contributions to the Nine Cities can become an official, no matter age or status, can become an official with the recommendation of an high-ranking official. Jiang Shu argues that Fan Yun helped protect the exam takers from the bandits and price gorgers, so she deserves a lot of credit. It's also a good chance to test out if women can become officials. Elder Zheng tried to push back, but good job Qi Zheng for shutting that down. The governor should have the final say!

Fan Yun shall be on probation and will join the training with the newly appointed officials from the imperial exam.

Elder Zheng and Zheng Shi's relationship

I'll take a step back and talk more about Elder Zheng and Zheng Shi's relationship here. He really loves his grandson, but is such an Asian parent at heart.

It was cute to see him prepare 3 good luck charms (mugwort plant, mugwort water, mugwort tea) for Zheng Shi before he looked at the results. I think Zheng Shi has had enough of bad tea so he left without drinking.

I kept thinking 23rd isn't so bad, why is Elder Zheng so sad? Your grandson doesn't need a perfect GPA, grandpa! Turns out there are only 22 spots so Zheng Shi barely missed the mark!

Elder Zheng can't accept that his grandson did so poorly (he didn't, plenty of people don't even get a placement), and punished him to kneel before the ancestors. He skipped dinner out of anger/frustration/disappointment, but relented when his servant brought a bowl cooked by Zheng Shi.

That noodle looks so bland, but Elder Zheng ate it so happily. I can feel that he loves his grandson very much, while being a strict grandpa who doesn't consider what his grandson wants.

So cute that Elder Zheng was tracing a smiley face on this egg. Is that goji berries for eyes? And why was it buried at the bottom of the bowl? Is there some backstory about this bowl of noodles between Elder Zheng and Zheng Shi? Will we see some flashbacks?

Start of her journey as an official!

The new officials greet their governor for the first time during the morning assembly. The top 3 scholars were summoned first, but Wei Rong was 'sick'. Fan Yun came next (before 4th-22nd place? 😛) Qi Zheng seemed happy but conflicted at the same time.

After the assembly, he asked her to stay back. First thing she asked about was about Wei Rong's absence. Turns out he has already resigned. Being an official is too restrictive and not suitable for freedom-loving Wei Rong. Qi Zheng was frustrated that Fan Yun is always talking about someone else when hanging out with him. He's trying to fish for her to say she misses him or something along those lines, but dense Fan Yun just returned the good luck satchel to Qi Zheng. When he looked at her longingly for more, she's still talking about her job! That she'll do a great job to support him as governor, so she won't disappoint those who trusted in her.

Fan Yun looks good in her uniform! Her journey has just begun!

Qi Zheng got a little sad that she's still talking about being his official, so he told her to leave since she has to obey his directives. And Fan Yun actually just left. So poor Qi Zheng relented and asked her to come back. Fan Yun only noticed that Qi Zheng's mood is off, but she doesn't know why. Fan Yun, don't you get it? The governor should not be dating his officials. He's conflicted about that....Fan Yun changed the subject to the exam scripts so Zheng Qi showed her Zheng Shi's exam script. Turns out, he left the common subjects portion (usually based on classic texts and writing) of the exam entirely blank, yet did really well for the special exam portion.

Qi Zheng got jealous that Fan Yun remembers Zheng Shi's high placement. Qi Zheng recognized that Zheng Shi is a talent, but not someone he can trust and appoint so he warned Fan Yun about it. But Fan Yun was just recalling that Lou Qiyan was a smart guy. 🫤

Afterwards, everyone was shunning Fan Yun and Tian Xing for fear of offending Elder Zheng. Elder Lyu stopped Elder Zhao from saying hi because he recognizes that Fan Yun needs to face these battles herself. If people felt she was too close to them, it'll only further discredit her that she did not earn her place there.

Someone changed the reporting time from 卯时二刻 (2nd quarter) to 卯时三刻 (third quarter) by adding a stroke. I looked it up and that translates to changing the time from 5.30am (or 6.30am) to 5.45am (6.45am). Oh no, but 15 min isn't that bad?

Shisan and Gao Ran

We have a short Shisan and Gao Ran interaction this episode. She once again just shows up and tries to invite herself to Gao Ran's place. She asks Gao Ran why he's always so cold to her when they meet? Girl....don't you know anything about boundaries?

Sensing his reluctance to invite her, she decided to bite Gao Ran really hard (OUCH!) and asks him not to forget her. Gao Ran sensed something is off with her, but he did not probe further. And seems like maybe Shisan should have bit Gao Ran earlier because it seemed to make him think of her during their family meal to celebrate Fan Yun. =/

\"Don't forget me\". I'm sure he won't. Most people don't forget their stalkers.

Zheng Shi and Fan Yun's conversation

Just as Gao Ran was still thinking about Shisan, Zheng Shi sneaked out of the Zheng residence to join in Fan Yun's celebratory lunch. They have some alone time and Fan Yun directly asks him about his exam script. She asks if he didn't do well on purpose to retain his freedom. And he once again iterates that being an official isn't the only way to make a difference. That in itself is true, but he doesn't seem to be a model merchant.

He once again invites Fan Yun to be a merchant, that she'll do well under his guild. That they can make a difference that way. He tells her that she can still be fired at anytime. He fails to understand that asking a politican like Fan Yun to become a capitalist like him is impossible. Fan Yun once again reiterates that she cannot ignore people who stand in the way of the governor and good policies (like the imperial exam reform).

Zheng Shi acknowledged that they have their own perspectives and can either be rivals or friends. And even if they are not on the same side, they can still be friends. Fan Yun thank him for his honesty and seems to agree. She tries to tell him what she'll do if they ever become enemies because of their positions, but hesistates and says she wishes it'll never happen. Zheng Shi guarantee that it'll never happen. Excuse me, isn't his involvement with the bandits who stole the exam tokens sufficient to make him an enemy?! What, did Fan Yun have short-term amnesia?

And Zheng Shi ends the conversation by asking her one more time to join his guild. And implying that it's fine if she doesn't do anything. Then that's not Fan Yun. How do you still not understand Fan Yun?

Meanwhile, Elder Zheng and Lord Cai have a conversation about teaching Tian Xing and Fan Yun how cruel the political scene can be. Is Lord Cai the one who changed the reporting time?

First Day as Trainees

Fan Yun and Tian Xing arrived at the governor's mansion for their first day as trainees. But they're running late! Luckily, Qi Zheng found them and brought them to the reporting venue through shortcuts. But, I guess he decided that the time he saved them was so sufficient that he wanted to slowly give them some pheasant's eye flowers (Adonis amurensis) to wish them luck and represent their resilience.

Thankfully, Fan Yun and Tian Xing were late, but not too late so they haven't missed too much. Based on past traditions, all new officials need to be interns for 2-months at the Rites department before they get permanent assignments. Here, we got introduced to a new character, Lord Lu Yan, vice-manger of this department (his boss is Lord Cai), who will be their reporting officer during this internship. the main Bo Qin, still mad at them becoming officials, started a commotion to get Fan Yun and Tian Xing in trouble.

Only a second in, Fan Yun and Tian Xing are already facing their first hurdles. Bo Qin requested that they be shoved out. While Lord Lu didn't do that, he warned Fan Yun that she's not going to get special treatment just because she used to be the governor's wife, that she has stricter criteria to meet. He also reminded Tian Xing that he's lucky to be there, that he's no longer in the countryside and can be kicked out for not obeying rules. Off to a great start! =/

When it came time to assign the trainees their first jobs, there were nothing left for Fan Yun and Tian Xing. Since they were late, Lord Lu said they're not suited to be officials and all that's left to do is to clean the latrines and tidy the mess around the office. They both volunteered to do the dirtier job out of consideration of the other, so in the end Fan Yun got assigned the latrine while Tian Xing got to tidy the mess. Bo Qin rubs it in their face that they're just cleaners.

Meanwhile, we jump to the Lou Qiyan again. The department of rites buy lots of goods from his guild and they're requesting a 10% increase in commission. Initially, Zheng Shi refuses but he recalls that Fan Yun is working there and agrees to that increase only if Fan Yun is well taken care of. While that's nice of him, Fan Yun would not appreciate special treatment and wants to earn her place.

Back to the latrine, Fan Yun doesn't let it keep her down. She treats her job seriously, and even offers automatic tap services, bronze mirror viewing and air freshener refills. Bo Qin, being an asshole, intentionally makes things difficult for Fan Yun. He physically bumps into her, insults her for turning the latrine into a lady's room and smashes her air freshener. Wei Ying and Qi Zheng are watching over Fan Yun in secret and Qi Zheng got so mad. Wei Ying stopped Qi Zheng in time and reminded him that Fan Yun must solve this herself or people will forever just see her as a nepo-baby who doesn't deserve to be there.

Neat mechanism! Seems like automatic taps already existed in manual form =P

Qi Zheng and Wei Ying are keeping an eye for Fan Yun secretly. Qi Zheng, that plant is too small to hide your face!

Fan Hui and Yan Jiang happened to come by to her rescue. While Bo Qin is fanboying, Yan Jiang ignored him and asked him to leave. Fan Hui wants to interfere for Fan Yun's sake, but she turned him down. Yan Jiang (same as your bro Wei Ying) recognizes that non-interference is the best for Fan Yun, that she shouldn't be treated as a 'woman' or a 'man', but just an official. That Lord Lu has the authority to assign her any tasks since she is one of his trainees. Here, Yan Jiang called Fan Hui 'dad' because he's the adopted son of Fan Hui. He actually mentioned it in Episode 1 when he was introducing himself, but not sure how many people caught it. So Yan Jiang and Fan Yun are technically cousins.

Fan Yun explains to her uncle that she cannot be a good official if they give her special treatment to not follow the same rules as her fellow trainees. She reminds him that if she cannot accomplish great things if she cannot handle trivial matters (the proverb she uses literally means 'if you can't sweep one room, how can you sweep the world?') and Fan Hui finally relents, but reminds her that he'll be there to switch her duties whenever she wants.

Wei Ying and Qi Zheng have super hearing so they heard everything, so Qi Zheng thanked Wei Ying for stopping him earlier. Wei Ying seems a lot more experienced with pursuing women and he reminded Qi Zheng that while he cannot interfere with Fan Yun's work, he can show her care and concern in her private life.

Why does Yan Jiang look a little jealous here? Will they address this in the future?

Now, we're back to Bo Qin. After being mean to Fan Yun, he shifts his target to Tian Xing. He intentionally kicked the dirty bucket off and mess up his shoe. Tian Xing, being conflict avoidant, just apologized and accepted Bo Qin's request to polish his shoe. At the latrine, Fan Yun heard that Bo Qin continued to mess up his shoes and get others to join in to have Tian Xing wipe their shoes. While Fan Yun can handle insult to herself, she can't tolerate them bullying Tian Xing so she went to his rescue.

While she's arguing with Bo Qin, he suddenly collapsed. Tian Xing, a kindhearted doctor at heart, did not hesistate to help him out. I guess Tian Xing signed the Hippocratic Oath. He diagnosed Bo Qin with gastric pain due to overwork. Jiang Shu happened to come by and acknowledged Tian Xing's skills and offered to exchange medical knowledge if Tian Xing is interested. Bo Qin indeed got better, and when he came to, he realized it's the second time Tian Xing has treated him, despite his shitty attitude.

Tian Xing, you need to learn to stand up for yourself!

At lunchtime, Fan Yun and Tian Xing got shunned and accused of being too stinky. Fan Yun is not one to stand down, so you just sat at a table. I love her insult that 'you're not even in the top 3' to shut the guy down. Bo Qin had a change of heart and joined them at the table. That seemed to calm people's insults towards Fan Yun and Tian Xing.

The trainees were served a simple bun made of water chestnut greens and dandelions. Lord Lu told them that it's tradition to eat like a commoner for the first meal, so that they remember who they're supposed to serve. Both Tian Xing and Fan Yun were familiar with this bun and were able to identify the ingredients and even infer how well the harvest was that season. The rest of the trainees got impressed with her knowledge.

Discussion

Romance took a backseat these two episodes and Fan Yun's finally is an official! As expected, she's facing lots of sexism and misogyny at work. I felt that Bo Qin's change of heart came too abruptly. He started off too antagonistic, and then got a lot friendlier just because Tian Xing was kind to him?

Do you think Fan Yun and Tian Xing can get out of their cleaning duties soon? Where do you think they should end up after their 2-month internship?

We also saw a lot more of Elder Zheng and Zheng Shi's this episode. They both seem to truly care for each other and I'm not sure how Elder Zheng will react if he ever finds out about Lou Qiyan. Right now, it's still not clear what Zheng Shi is after. I don't buy that he just enjoys being a merchant, or he wouldn't be the head of those bandits. His conversation with Fan Yun also feels like foreshadowing that eventually they'll be on opposite sides. If he ever turns full villian, I hope it's not for stupid reasons like Fan Yun not loving him.

Novel/Anime thoughts

The drama made a HUGE change in how Fan Yun became an official. While I appreciate the drama went into the powerpoint and the difficulties of passing imperial exam reform and we got cute Qi Zheng and Fan Yun moments due to his failure to allow women to take part in the imperial exam, I think overall I still prefer the source materials' execution.

!There was lots of pushback too, but with the support of major players like Lord Jiang and Fan Hui, the imperial exams allowed women to take part (commoners already could take part) under 3 conditions: 1) a women can only take part with the sponsor/recommendation of the nobles or high-ranking officials. 2) both men and women need to pass a preliminary exam to show their competency before being allowed to take part in the imperial exam. 3) if no women got selected in this year's imperial exam, no more women shall be allowed to take part in the future. !<

!In the end, only one woman made it - Fan Yun. Fan Hui was her sponsor. Tian Xing was still 1st, Wei Rong 2nd, but Fan Yun is 3rd. Bo Qin got 4th. I like this version better because Fan Yun really did earn her way, with no shortcuts. And her retort at the bully "you're not even in the top 3" made more sense when she got 3rd place. In the drama, that retort seems weak when she got to skip the entire process. While she needed to have contributions to get recommended by Jiang Shu, she only got the opportunities to know the right people and have the resources to help only because of her connections. So her taking part in the imperial exam felt more earned. That said, the novel did say that Jiang Shu was against that reform not because of its content, but because Qi Zheng wanted it implemented in less than a year. He felt that it should be a ten-year process that's more well thought-out. So I guess, the drama does a better job in showing how it takes years for mindsets to shift.!<

About Bo Qin, >! I think the drama toned up his antagonism up so many notches. It's almost like he is also supposed to represent all hatred towards them from other rando characters with no names. In the source material, he was mad that Tian Xing got first, but it's for a silly reason, not out of discrimination. Yan Jiang was the youngest top scholar for a while when he become top scholar at 16. As a Yan Jiang fan boy, Bo Qin wanted to be the top scholar too, but he didn't want to break his idol's record so he waited until 17 to take part in the imperial exam. Tian Xing was 13 when he became the scholar, so Bo Qin was upset that he broke Yan Jiang's record and did better than him. While Bo Qin was annoyed at their achievements, he wasn't out right mean, just a little rude. I think this change is why Bo Qin's change of heart seemed so sudden in the drama.!<

Why Tian Xing got shunned and bullied is also changed. >!Since commoners have always been able to take part in the imperial exam, his commoner status is not the reason he got mistreated. After he became the top scholar, he got lots of marriage proposals from the rich families because they believe he'll have a bright future. Tian Xing rejected them all and also refused to drink, so he offended many powerful families who decided to make things difficult for him going forward.!<