Source
r/Planetside•
Painwalker

Instead of killing all passive certs on non-members, just give them a top-up.

If the whole point of getting rid of passive certs is to give incentive to players to get a membership, and not having those log-in certs would hurt clueless players' ability to be able to unlock anything (because they don't understand how the game works yet), set a soft top-up cap.

This means that players can log in and still get their certs, but after earning a set amount in their bank, say 200 or whatever, the log-in freebies stop unless they spend their certs to be below that amount, or get a membership.

It would allow them to get most of the basic stuff still, but not just passively log in to get all the higher-end stuff that would require either dedicated play, or a membership.

Big incentive to subscribe, but without totally screwing anyone since the first few unlocks on any cert line doesn't usually cost more than 150-200 certs anyways.

Also, if you want to communicate the freebie certs, put something on the certs page! Call it the daily amount Empire Investments or something and give it a progress meter or something to show what they earn and how and put a button on it that when clicked pops up a small blurb about how the empire is willing to invest in you to make you stronger, but requires you to invest back for an even greater effect or something to that effect.

Thoughts?

Posted Oct 5, 2014, 5:43 PM UTC

11237
maninasMiller [IP]•

This sounds like a very nice compromise of new-player incentive / retaining value of benefit for subs.

19
if-loopScythe/Mag (Cobalt)•

Agreed, but it shouldn't have been changed in the first place.

The whole change has put off at least one of my friends because the game seems even more like p2w now. Just look at the general gaming subreddits to see what people think about PS2.

Sure, as a seasoned player who has thousands of certs to spend and knows that a new weapon (for possibly 1000 certs or $7 (wtf?)) isn't necessary to compete you might say that "12 certs a day isn't that much", but it really is. At least on paper. In fact, passive cert gain should have been buffed or - even better - bound to the BR (i.e., each promotion grants some certs).

The whole idea to punish new and f2p players is totally backwards. We need new and f2p players for this game to survive. Every new and f2p player is a potential Good job, SOE. Once again.

13
PurelyGumboHated For Shitposting•

Thought?

Yes. Just yes

11
TThorPraise be to Vanu [SSGO]•

Passive certs have many times encouraged me to keep playing, many days I might otherwise not play PS2 but decide "eh, I might as well play a bit, collect my passive certs from logging in,"

8
NebuliousMatherson [TAG3]•

I still have a hard time believing that 48 certs/day really encourages people to buy memberships.

6
Sianmink[GOTR] MechazawaVS (Emerald)•

It doesn't, but it does make you want to at least log in daily, and I've lost track of the times I've said 'I'm just gonna log in and collect' and ended up in some farm for 3 hours straight.

6
PainwalkerOPAzure Twilight - Emerald (Mattherson)•

I think it has more to do with stacking up free certs infinitely and literally never needing to play the game to get access to pretty much everything. I don't think it's just that people pay to get the passive certs, as much as it's about making it so that they never ever have to in order to get a good amount of certs to buy whatever they want with zero effort.

Paying money into a free-to-play game is supposed to allow you to get past any kind of grind, but if you don't even have to play the game to get all the certs you want from just logging in with zero effort on your part, why would you ever be interested in paying anything?

Yet at the same time they can't really make the rate of certs people get any lower without it becoming meaningless. Having a soft-cap I think would address most issues by allowing them to stack up certs to meaningful levels, but they are either going to have to spend them to get more, or play the game to push past the normal amounts unless they want to pitch in $10 a month to skip the grind.

1
EclecticDreck•

I think it has more to do with stacking up free certs infinitely and literally never needing to play the game to get access to pretty much everything.

This doesn't really hold up under scrutiny. The cheapest weapons are 100 certs. For Infiltrator purposes, that gets you the first functional Sniper Rifle you could get as VS or TR (the default weapon being more of a DMR and while that can be effective in the right hands it is damn hard to press into service for sniping). It takes nine days to get a cert pile for the cheapest weapon. For something a bit fancier like an auto scout rifle, which is the cheapest entry into CQB infiltrating, you're looking at 21 days for the rifle and another 8 or so to pay for attachments. If you wanted an SMG, you'd need 84 days for the gun and another 11 to put it into a basic level of equipment.

To take the infiltrator to a reasonable extreme, a well rounded infiltrator needs max hunter cloak (810 certs), Advanced Shield Capacitor (341 certs), a few medkits (150 certs), a bolt action rifle (0 - 100 certs), a scout rifle (250 certs base + sight and grip at a minimum for 380 certs total), a few points of terminal hacking (81 certs) and at least 3 levels of RDD and motion sensor (440 certs) which works out to 2302 certs. This far from filled out single class with much room for improvement and several worthy guns locked away behind a pay wall would take 192 days to get using just that F2P dole. Tack on a few extra guns (close range BASR and an SMG at a minimum) and max out just those motion sensors, RDD and terminal hacking (giving you a fairly fleshed out infiltrator) and suddenly it takes more than a year of logging in each day such that you collect that maximum amount. Even that leaves 3 other SMGs, the interesting HSR and close range Semi-auto sniper, mines and medkits and stalker cloak and EMP grenades and literally every suit slot besides ASC uncerted.

Thus, to answer your rhetorical question here:

Paying money into a free-to-play game is supposed to allow you to get past any kind of grind, but if you don't even have to play the game to get all the certs you want from just logging in with zero effort on your part, why would you ever be interested in paying anything?

Taking more than two years to max a single class F2P without logging any play time or effort is a hell of a grind. Six months to just get to a point where you can basically do the highlights of what a particular class can do is a brutal slog. Just subscribing cut those numbers by a huge margin. Instead of taking six months to get that basic infiltrator you're looking at well under two months. And god forbid you actually play since you'll get 50% more certs for literally anything you do. Plus right off the bat you have enough SC to buy that scout rifle. Or that BASR.

Even when the dole existed, the difference in grind between F2P and members is huge. To argue that you can get whatever you want in planetside without effort because of that trickle of certs is a foolish position to take; who is going to log in to this game every day for months and not play? Perhaps someone suffering from OCD or OCPD but if your argument relies on mental illness, it probably isn't a good one. And just as important, that dole is important because it gets people to log in. That's a hell of a lot closer to playing than they might otherwise actually get without the dole. While most obviously important for a new player, giving everyone a reason to log in each day is something that costs SOE virtually nothing and, in exchange, some of those people might stick around for a bit and play.

Besides - by the time that 250 certs ceases to be a reasonable cap, players already make far more playing than they do from the dole regardless of membership status. After only two months of play, my NC character is well certed enough that there literally isn't anything under 250 certs that I actually need.

1
EclecticDreck•

48 certs a day is pretty great if you have an opportunity to log in but not time to play or if you have enough time to do the dailies.

In an average weekday, I might play for a bit over an hour and I'll get around 300 certs. Without membership, that number is almost certainly under 200.

If nothing else, those free certs get me to log in each day and at least examine the world map to see if there is an obvious interesting battle I could hop into.

1
Ryekirauraxis.info | [666] Connery•

Not by itself, no, but combined with everything else you get, it's fairly compelling.

1
Fellgnome•

I would rather see every character get, say,

  • 50 certs at BR 5,
  • 100 at BR 10,
  • 150 at BR 15,
  • 200 at BR 20

Total = 500 certs for new players/alts

Could even go to 25 for 750, whatever.

In the long run it's still fewer certs of course assuming you play more than 40-60 days, but since you get the certs when you're a cert starved under-geared character they can help you earn certs faster early on if you spend them wisely, plus just make the low BRs less painful.

I'd also give all starter weapons one free rail attachments and one free sight, so you don't have to sink 130 certs into making a starter weapon more effective, especially since many players may even replace certain starters ASAP.

6
PainwalkerOPAzure Twilight - Emerald (Mattherson)•

I wouldn't mind having the limit based on BR which would require the player playing, which is something to shoot at for everyone and benefits all players online that day.

3
EclecticDreck•

I actually like this idea a great deal simply because it hands out the points in bulk when you need it but spaces out the clusters enough that you'll have a fair idea of what you need.

Of course, I don't think the pressing need was really the biggest advantage the 12 certs offered as the key utility is that system offers a reason to log in each day just as those dailies offer a decent reason to play for a few minutes.

1
phlap•

Agreed.

4
KaesarREDMIST[RMIS]•

Logging for 12 certs a day is a painful thing and worthless because you get real certs by playing and in a matter of minutes.

I think they have done a good modification.

What I still do not understand is why someone with Auraxium membership must log in with every character for the passive certs.

It's getting stressful and it is the MAIN reason for which I am stopping membership.

I want passive certs to be automatically given at least to members.

Once I had 6 characters, I had to cancel some, it was drivin me mad loggin 6 characters fir the passive certs.

4
UltimateJim•

Essentially your suggestion is a newbie bonus. I am all for this, New players definitely need a boost, Uncerted utils and abilities make for a hard time leveling. They need a little starter amount of certs to be able to buy something usefull (First few ranks of nanoweave, 250cert weapons, infantry abilities, etc.)

3
SideOfBeef•

I don't think free certs have ever really been the answer.

The basic problem is that there are some "entry-level" unlocks that each class NEEDS to be competitive, and new players are screwed until they have those specific things. So give them those things.

Examples: LA needs to start with C4 unlocked, Medic needs Res Grenades, Infil needs EMP (seriously, EMPs = love + life), vehicles need to start with flares.

3
zt2211•

Now THIS is a good idea!

3
Sgt_JupiterSneakymofo•

i dont get why people are pissed off about losing the free infinite certs forev... oh

3
tobie42[BWC]•

something I posted in another "12 cert" thread, but probably fits better here.

They should have added a graphic popup that when they logged in had a bar that filled up 25% when they got the 12 certs, and then showed they could have gotten up to 100% if they were a member (like how the death screen shows a dotted line on the graph showing how much xp they would have gotten if they were members). As well as a bit of text under the bar saying: "This was X% of the certs you earned last session" (a session being the last time the played for over 30 minutes in one go) To keep the amount of certs in context, and encourage them to play more instead of logging out. Since that % would likely be extremely low unless they only played for 5 minutes or suck terribly. They should also have made it so the passive certs were only earned, or the amount earned was increased (at least doubled, from 6 to 12) if you had played in the last day or so. Thus making logging in for the certs once a day, but never playing otherwise feel like wasting the certs. This would drive a lot of the slightly OCD players from regular MMOs, who cant stand wasting free things, insane if they didn't play. Then you would at least have a bunch more people who played for 30-60 minutes a day, or at least as long as it took them to earn their daily ribbon bonuses. And lightly penalizing login/out behavior would curb the population of that demographic as well.

3
PainwalkerOPAzure Twilight - Emerald (Mattherson)•

Ah kind of like the bar of IP you get at the end of a League of Legends match, with a portion faded out showing what a boost would get you.

1
tobie42[BWC]•

never played LoL, but yes that sounds correct.

1
LordMczeI like trains-H | Cobalt [JEST]•

Or just give the passive certs only to <BR20.

3
Askeji•

Disagree. I think people should UPGRADE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1
mkgrider23[OP4]The Opposition Force•

Somebody gild this man.

1
christianargMiller•

Nice. You could even get a message "you are currently not gaining passive certs. Become a member bla bla bla" in the chat box exactly where the current "we just gave you x certs.." when you log in.

1
stoneshankMCY stoneshankNC•

I honestly don't see where it is warranted to stirr up so much about these 12 certpoints - they keep adding bonuses and ribbons all over the place and making them easier to obtain. The cert gain from just this patch alone easily beast them 12 certpoints taken away. Just my opinion..

0
Oottzz[YBuS]•

I don't get it as well as everyone should get tons more of XP/Certs with the new ribbons and point control XP. The problem here is that its not as obvious for everyone as you don't see a "you got 12 Certs now" message and gain the additional certs passively over time.

1
Ryekirauraxis.info | [666] Connery•

Exactly! There's constantly new sources of XP being added, making it increasingly easier to gain certs. Not getting a measly 12 certs for free is really not an issue.

1
DrJoske[AC]•

Would require already limited coder time for 12 certs/day with the risk of new bugs, because you are messing with an old system (so more QA as well) . Yeah, no... They better spend that time on something else. They explained how those 12 certs are overshooting the goal of the passive grant... Besides that, they made is so dam easy to gain certs since launch, hell you literally get xp for standing still next to a point these days :|

-1
RewmanG•

Can everyone advocating the free cert cancelation please stop using the "if you stand next to point you get sh*t ton of exps"... New players dont know, even i who know about it and played about 150h now didnt know it is that much exps in such short time

2
stoneshankMCY stoneshankNC•

They added that in this patch. It's a new thing.

1
RewmanG•

i just didnt know that it was so much exp until i tried yesterday... i was thinking something like 50exp per 30 sec or something, not to get whole load of exp with camping and just 2 kills

1
stoneshankMCY stoneshankNC•

Yeah, it is pretty amazing how much you get for flipping a point back the whole way, I thought I saw wrong first :p

1
DrJoske[AC]•

I'm advocating jack shit, just explaining this kind of thing takes coder time which can be spent better on other stuff that might actually achieve its goal (which the passive cert grant didn't).

1
PainwalkerOPAzure Twilight - Emerald (Mattherson)•

...such as...?

1
DrJoske[AC]•

What about literally everything else?This is a trivial unimportant band aid fix for the fact the game explains shit to new players, it helps them in a broken way by design. It doesn't help them learn how to get the certs (which is more than easy enough). It gives them certs.

2