Welcome to another exciting episode of Gators in the Wild. Now in unrelated book subreddits!
np.reddit.com/r/dresdenfiles/comments/2wq2ft/...
np.reddit.comPosted Feb 23, 2015, 12:05 PM UTC
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np.reddit.comThey are still fucking pushing the "all threats and doxxing is done by anti gg false flags and trolls" angle.
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And somehow Wikipedia is bad because "anyone can say anything they want and it becomes truth"
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Didn't this just get unarguably proven wrong recently by that guy who made it known that GG paid him to doxx someone?
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He said it, whether it's true is another matter.
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I'mma stick me finger in 'is ethics, and it'll really piss 'im off.
I love the "I'm not the biggest fan of gamergate" commenter who then throws out "aGGro," as if anyone but their fans use that term.
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Forget that Brianna Wu is probably downright shellshocked from months of incessant threats including several seriously creepy videos made by someone who actually tried to come to her house and probably would have done it if he hadn't crashed his mom's car on the way there. The real crime is that she misread a weird-ass comment about a gas attack and immediately retracted when she realized her mistake. Clearly 'aggros' are the true villains here.
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i'm not the biggest fan of gamergate in the world to put it mildly but at least they didn't fucking pretend to be the other side and then claim to plan a sarin gas attack to discredit it holy shit i'm still in awe that aggro actually did that
Whut?
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i'm not the biggest fan of gamergate
That's become the new "I'm not racist, but..."
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Myself and fellow comedian Andrew O'Neill are trying to reclaim 'I'm not being racist but...' by using it and then not saying something racist.
E.g. 'I'm not being racist but do you know the way to Camden?'
'I'm not being racist but can I have £10 cashback please?'
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That seems counterproductive. It's such a nifty little warning that this is a good time to interrupt the speaker because something vile is about to be said.
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It's a joke. As Andrew points out 'I'm not being racist means "WARNING I am about to be racist, please leave the vicinity if you object or be prepared for a long argument"'
It's funny to see people's reactions when you start a sentence with 'I'm not being racist' and then proceed to not say something even remotely racist.
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The not-racist butt?
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A Twitter account out there was making random stupid tweets suggesting attacks on both people within GG and opposed to GG, Brianna only saw one of the tweets suggesting a Sarin gas attack on a convention to hit people opposed to GG, she thought it was genuine and mentioned it.
It was an obvious and understandable mistake on Brianna's part given what she's been going through, and GGers would normally be content with "Brianna made a mistake." But since most people realize it was a mistake and are understanding about it, they need to find some other angle to malign her. In this case, more "false flag" crap.
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This is a group who takes out of context quotes from years old irc logs and accuses people of beastiality like it ain't no thing.
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I'm not a fan of gamergate, but I am going to use their terminology and their narrative
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I'm actually more concerned with the fact that Jim Butcher thinks Adam Baldwin can be debated.
Seriously. I'd compare Baldwin to a monkey but that would be an insult to monkeys (and possibly a mildly racist comment, now that I think about it.)
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I can kind of see where he's coming from. A lot of fantasy authors/actors in the geek-o-sphere do a lot of conventions to get their name out etc etc. And being withheld from a convention because of your political views (whether or not you feel like they have any bearing on your material) might sound kind of dangerous and scary to someone who relies on convention word-of-mouth to help sell books.
I mean, it's not a defense of what he's saying, but it is a possible motivation factor.
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The problem is that Butcher thinks people are upset because Adam Baldwin just has (really fucking racist but non-geek-related) "political views," which he constantly posts on Twitter.*
In fact, people are boycotting his appearance at a geek convention because he has been actively harmful and hostile within the geek community. In addition to his contributions to #GamerGate, his fans have been targeting and attacking critics on social media.
So this particular call to boycott isn't purely political in the sense of "making a statement," but rather an act of solidarity with the people (mostly women) who no longer feel safe to attend the convention.
* ^(Although for the record, the sheer Islamophobia he spouts would be a perfectly legitimate reason to boycott him anyway.)
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Right. So when one side is spreading your personal information around to the entire world and sending death threats, and the other is telling that side to sit down, shut up, and stop proving the people who would demonise gamers right, it's the second group that's wrong? 'K, cool. Logic win.
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Only people who haven't debated gators would think like that. Its like "Hey, man, how could you not let the Jehova's witnesses in your house for the 100th time to talk to them?! That is anti free speech!"
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"Y'know, I'm not a homophobe, but I don't want gays in my house either"
"Oh fucking shut up already"
"Ha! I win!"
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"Y'know, I'm not against gays, I just don't want them coming into my house and ass raping me while I sleep."
"Oh shut up."
"What is wrong with you? Are you really for gay people just breaking into someone's house and raping them whenever they want?!?!"
According to some people, this guy should be heard. No matter what. Also, they think he just won the argument.
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Dan Olson? Isn't that the guy that (allegedly) posted kiddie porn to 8chan so that he could take screen captures of it and then complain about it on his blog?
how do you do fellow book readers you haven't heard about dan olson i swear i have been on this subreddit forever and am not at all from somewhere else
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I like the "allegedly" they slipped in there. 8chan is totally top-tier infiltrators.
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Even better, when he's called out on completely misrepresenting the situation with corroborating facts, he keeps shifting the goalposts back to paint Olson as the disgusting creep.
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And we went full FROZEN PEACHES at the end. I need some bingo cards.
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In other snark-related comments (but more related to the OP), if anyone wants to show up and debate a neoconservative jackass, they can be my guest.
Personally, I value my sanity.
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I decided to not touch anything Adam Baldwin's involved in waaayyy before #GG. Actually, it was when he tweeted that allowing gay marriage would open the door to fathers marrying their sons for tax reasons and sicked an actor-friend of his on someone who called him out on it. Said actor-friend then proceeded to the most cringe-inducing fat-shaming I've ever seen. And other stuff. While Baldwin cheered him on.
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I remember this! Susan Arendt got involved, calling that actor (Nick somebody?) out on his bigotry, and a tonne of Escapist forum-goers were really pissed off. Should have been a sign.
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Yes, Nick Searcy was his name. I got to it from The Escapist. I recently decided not to go there anymore. Here is a link: http://www.peacock-panache.com/2014/02/adam-baldwin-and-nick-searcys-anti-gay.html
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The last time I played ME2, I tried to get Kal'Reegar killed but I failed. Quit ME3 just before he would have returned. Mostly because I played through Citadel and felt that that was the perfect way to end it but mostly because I never liked Kal'Reegar in the first place, not even before I knew about Adam's lovely, lovely opinions.
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Oh yeah right, that was him voice acting... I had forgotten about that. Hey, thanks for reminding me :P
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Isn't it brigading for folks to show up to argue on another board after getting linked to there? Being new to Reddit, I am unsure what the boundaries and limitations are and am curious.
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Yeah, that's why the link's in non-participation format (i.e if you use that link to access the subreddit you won't be able to vote/comment).
If you're referring to the fact that I talked about debating a neocon jackass I meant that if anyone wants to go and make a panel at a con where they try to make sense of what Adam Baldwin's saying, they can feel absolutely free to do that.
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Commenting is not a bannable offense, but voting is. It's a bit of a grey area, but is often considered bad form (people from unrelated communities descending to have a shit fight in your sub). I'd say it depends, just use common sense and you should be fine.
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I guess Butcher doesn't understand that petitioning for Baldwin's removal from the guest list is a form of speech?
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Attention: Most of the thread is rambling nonsense. I tried to find some funny quotes and just got frustrated. You have things like a poster saying that I'm sure Ken Ham loves this theory. He got a reply from another poster asking what's wrong with Ken Ham...
And then the rest of the thread is just. You know, Gamergate has been misrepresented by the media. And yeah, misogyny is bad but you should still hear the other side out. No matter how hard it is to what it is they want to say.
This is my least favorite episode of Gators in the Wild. I hope they go back to metal subs while misnaming bands and embarrassing themselves. That was fun.
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God dammit Jim Butcher. You realize you're talking about a chief mouthpiece for a movement that's best known for sending death threats to women who say things they don't like, right? If the loser is the first side to tell the other side to shut up, Gamergate lost before it had even started. I really hope he just stepped in something he didn't understand here, because that is some impressive hypocrisy otherwise.
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I can't say I'm that surprised. Based on his novels Butcher has not even the faintest idea of how normal humans interact.
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I saw book subreddit, saw Baldwin, then got really excited it was about James Baldwin.
But then I remembered James Baldwin's no longer with us. And then I remembered GamoraGrope is a thing. And then I got really, really angry that I went from "James Baldwin is great" to "WHY THE FUCK ARE WE STILL DEALING WITH THIS BABY SHIT?"
That right there is more of an emotional arc than I get from most game narratives.
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Brigading or is the Dresden Files fanbase just into this nonsense? I've talked to a lot of prominent speculative fiction authors and many seem pretty conscious of social stuff, but I haven't met Jim and I know there's the occasional self-absorbed reactionary in those ranks.
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I don't really think so, no. I mean, the books can be hit and miss when you apply a feminist/queer theory/post-colonial reading, and it has the same problem as Watch underscore Dogs' rendition of Chicago where it seems eerily devoid of black people and where the city with the most crime (and thus a lot of supernatural baddies) is an overwhelmingly black neighborhood in real life. Of course, on the other hand, 4/7 of the world's most powerful wizards are PoC, they just kinda tend to be relegated to the sidelines, and of the three remaining, the two white dudes are by far the most prominent in the story.
I don't believe in attributing it to any kind of conscious malice on Jim's part. He's just very 'I'm writing a story, don't think about it too much' in his approach. But I might be just a little biased because I quite like the story (even if I think his pet archangel can go fuck a cactus.) He doesn't seem particularly reactionary, but he's not as socially conscious, as, say, John Scalzi or Saladin Ahmed.
The fanbase itself tends to be very much on the 'keep thy politics out of mine entertainment' side of this whole debate, though. At least the parts of it I've seen.
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Yeah, I have a few of Butcher's books since everybody recommends them to me, and I pretty much have to read them because I have a slightly schlocky supernatural noir story percolating which I might get to in a couple of years, and need to be sure I'm not just aping some other guy.
But right now I'm reading China Mieville and I'm really enjoying the more sociological, conscious perspective. I wish more speculative fiction included that stuff where appropriate, even in power fantasy.
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Right now I'm in the middle of The City and the City.
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In the middle? Be careful not to Breach!
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and btw, Bush did 9/11
actually this is true, as long as you ignore Zoe Quinn, Brianna Wu, Grace Lynn, Chloe Sagal, and Randi Harper. Oh, and all the journalists, like Elizabeth Simins, Jenn Frank, Mattie Brice, and Leigh Alexander. And all the people who aren't journalists, like Laci Green and Jenni Goodchild. And the people unrelated to gaming, like Felicia Day.
Apart from that Gamergate haven't attacked anyone!
Just adding on that I know when you say this, you mean she's not part of the gaming industry itself, not that she has no stake in gaming.
Good, comprehensive list here, too. Obviously it doesn't list everyone, because GG's attacked so many people, but it does a good job of showing the extent of GG's attacks. Need to add srhbutts to that as well.
There's a nice list at the bottom of the timeline on the Ghazi wiki. It's even more substantive, those were just the ones I picked out!
Wait, Laci Green got doxxed by GG?
You can't prove that was gamergate!!!!
No ur bush did 9/11
Doxxing can't melt SJW beams.
we never landed on the sun
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