What are some interesting ways to describe Nat 20s for Non-Combat situations?
Seems a waste to let a Nat20 go to waste by just saying "You succeed in realizing he is bluffing" or "You climb the cliff"
Posted Jun 11, 2016, 12:59 AM UTC
1955
"As you are trying to identify the mysterious artifact, you notice there's a convenient tag on the bottom that tells you everything about it!"
22
I like your "undermine the critical" method the best.
14
One of my players rolled a nat 20 on a hide check in a room with other people. I told him. "Alright, you hide... literally anywhere you want. In fact, there's a portrait on the wall, and you can stand right in front of it and they'll just think it's a portrait of you." He actually declined.
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RAW: "You can't Hide from creatures that can see you", page 177 PHB, Hiding.
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He had an ability that lets him hide in plain sight.
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what ability?
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He was a shadowcaster with the sight eclipsed mystery.
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Probably mask of the wild.
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RAW: "You can't Hide from creatures that can see you", page 177 PHB, Hiding.
not saying the rule is wrong, just saying I have hidden myself before when in full viability(IRL) and people still couldn't find me
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visability
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Circumstances? That sounds like bs
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one guy is talking in a group, I get up and walk around, I walk into the background, people are still listening to that one guy and then I get behind cover and solid snaked my way to a large cardbord box, about 40% could see me right before I got to cover and when they started looking for me I didn't hear, he went behind X. TLDR: if you get people focus on other stuff(doesn't mater if long time or short) you have an oppertinuty
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I think doing this gives players the idea that 20 on skill checks = auto succeed, which isn't RAW and in my opinion, isn't a good idea.
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The problem there in my opinion though is that if you're asking for someone to roll for something, then there has to be the chance of success. If the best possible roll of the dice isn't going to let the person do what they tried to do, there's no point in doing the roll in the first place.
9
First of all, star ocean woo.
Second, that's a good point. I should clarify that what really bugs me is when people treat nat 20s as a super-success, even if it's not much above the dc.
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I agree to a point. When I first started playing and early on DMing, I would treat it as an auto-success. That has allowed for some pretty stupid things. Recently I have adapted a nat 20 to be like a roll of 25 on the die. They perform the task a bit outside of their normal range of skill, but it still isn't guaranteed. To me, it feels like a situation where luck and skill meet up for amazing results.
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I kind of see it this way. A natural 20 on a skill check is great, and the reward for it is...you get +20 to your skill check. :p
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I would rather tell a good story then have played by the exact RAW every time. Some of my best stories in dnd come from breaking the rules and generally just playing fast and loose, and I would rather enjoy myself then limit myself
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Personally I think it leads to crazy scenarios because dms feel pressured to make 20s seem really impressive and "if you give them an inch they'll take a mile" takes hold.
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I think when a 20 means doing something masterful and a 1 means I do something retarded it actually ruins the game. Everybody plays that way though, and that is why I can't play in pick up games anymore.
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I would agree with that. I have seen games where the tower trained mage rolls poorly and knows nothing about a magic item, and the barbarian rolls a nat 20 intelligence check and becomes Elminster Algernon. Then again, the DM should probably only allow those trained in arcana to know something.
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What I do in that kind of situation is make the dumb barbarian start mumbling about a how "shiny" and "magnificent" the urn is at which point the wizard suddenly remembers the story of the "magnificent shiny urn" and tells the party about the object.
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If you ask for a roll, and they score a 20, it is a succeed. For the simple reason that if you ask for a roll and they get a 20 and fail, then there is no reason to ask for one.
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Well it's more like, let's say you have a mixed party trying to notice something. The Druid or Cleric have a chance to notice it, but the 8 WIS barbarian does not...but he rolls a 20. "Natural twenty!" he exclaims, and looks to you expectantly to hear about what he saw.
Same thing but substitute insight rolls, arcana, history, religion, nature checks, really anything.
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well the dm shouldn't have asked for a roll. If a player rolls without the dm telling them to (outside of combat that is) then the dm should address that anyway. not everyone can roll for everything.
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So you're saying the DM needs to constantly track the maximum possible roll for every stat for each character at all times and only ask specific ones to roll for stuff like that? Okay, sure. That makes more sense than just reminding players that nat 20 doesn't mean success 100% of the time.
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I never implied that. I was asking for interesting ways to narrate a critical success when it haplens. If a Nat 20 wouldn't actually be enough I wouldn't make it a success.
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I like to use more description when possible and give the players a chance to RP it rather than just saying 'You succeed'. Here's some examples:
"Your excellent senses pick up a slight stutter when the merchant mentions [insert lie here]. His eyes also don't quite meet up with yours much like a child trying to tell their parent they didn't actually make that mess."
"You fairly run up the cliff, your sure hands and feet finding even the slightest hold. You look back at the rest of your party but they have only gotten half way by the time you're standing safely at the top."
EDIT: Formatting
11
I always use the house rule of "you can crit skill checks". Dwarven player did a Charisma roll. Nat 20.
The phrase, "Irresistible hunk of dwarven beef." May or may not have been used.
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In physical situations, you can let the players describe how they want to awesomely achieve their skill. With other things, perhaps go into detail on what they notice that leads them to their amazing success. With your bluff example, "You notice that he has a trickle of sweat and his eyes shift towards the door to the right when he tells you that X is not there." A Knowledge check, "You remember debating this specifically with your tutor and went out of your way to prove that you were right, reading more about it learning this additional fact."
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Like a second wind or a quick twitch if it's STR/DEX based. Stealth and lore skills might just be dumb luck they looked the other way or you suddenly recall the knowledge from the depths of your memory. Wisdom is probably harder to do, you can't say animal handling just goes right or you BS medicine/survival skills. Charisma also is just that one time you didn't stutter or the person is having a bad day and just figures it's fine to let you guys in. Performance I think critmiss 1 should be so bad it's good.
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Roll a 1 on perform "You dance like a man in a foam shark costume, instantly beloved by all!"
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with WIS I usually make it that something else helps them remember or it's one of those how-the-hell-did-I-ever-forget-this-faceslap. with animal handling it's easy, the animal either recodnizes a smell that it trusts or knows, or the PC has some food it really likes, or it just happend to be used to humans or something
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A nat 20 does not guarantee successful skill rolls. Don't forget, a player bluffing with a nat 20, "I am the King," doesn't suddenly make everyone believe him.
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if you're player tries to bluff: I am the king, you don't let the guy roll cause nobody would believe that anyway. if a nat20 doesn't get what the player what he wants to get, it's either because A the DC is way higer B the PC tried something impossible C something else intervieds
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But I like to get their hopes up and then remind them that they aren't gods 5% of the time regardless of their background or expertise
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we can do better then that, we can make the guy be the king, and then he has to do all the king stuff, like listen to complaints, do diplomatic stuff, handle finacices of a whole kingdom
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I never implied that. I was just asking that since they succeeded epically what is an interesting way to make more rewarding for the narrative. Usually the roll comes first then they base what they say on how well they do.
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I think you can also use this to encourage creative RP. If the players do something amazing, pull a perfect bluff out of their ass, or put some Sherlock Holmes shit together to narrow down a search area, they have very little chance of failure. However, if they are lazy and try to break into a castle with an uninspired lie, maybe they'll need that 20. Maybe the dim-witted guard will still call his buddy over to verify, and they'll either have to get creative or roll another 20.
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Introduce comical elements. "You succeed in realizing he is bluffing" becomes "his upper lip is suddenly covered with sweat and a tick never before seen now makes his left eye twitch. Not even himself believes what he is saying". "You climb the cliff" becomes "like an earth elemental, or a natutally born climber, you climb the cliff better than a freaking goat would, you reach the top by the time the others are still strenghening their grip on the rope".
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That is exactly what it should be. The attitude that with a nat 20 you can do ANYTHING and with a nat 1 you can't. do. anything. is a pet peeve of mine. That isn't the rule. It's like the free parking in monopoly though, everyone plays that way.
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Nat 20 to avoid fall damage: Superhero Landing.
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You know that's really jard on your knees. Totally impractical.
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I like to give a little bonus. My players were looting a merchant caravan (all the merchants were dead/zombies) and someone rolled a nat 20. So they found everything in there and I improved a secret department at the bottom of the caravan. Very small, no magic or lock, looks like it was simply part of the caravan and must have been locked over. It was 4 healing potions (which, since my campaign their prices have like quadrupled, were amazingly useful since they were still level 2).
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"There is a locked wooden door in front of you."
"I wanna break the door down."
"Roll a strength check."
"Nat 20."
"You decimate the door with a look."
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I'm a big fan of the "dice model the universe and not just player action" method. Natural 20s advance the action in a way that is advantageous to the players.
Picking a lock, the PCs also overhear a fight breaking out between two Orcs on the other side. The players now know there was an ambush planned for them, but the orcs are in-fighting instead, making the encounter easier.
On a search check in the merchant's antechamber, the PC finds some additional gold, gems or a magic item you weren't originally planning to put there. Or the ledger on the desk shows a key piece of info you weren't planning to reveal until later.
Bluffing the town guard to gain entry to the city of Portsmount, even though they don't have papers, a fight breaks out between two townsmen nearby and the guard rush away to deal with it. The PCs can just walk in.
On a handle animals check, hold the benefit until a key moment later. For example, the horse can whinny right before an ambush, so the PCs aren't surprised.
On a perception check, not only does the PC see the ambush and isn't surprised, but she has time to warn all her party members. None of the PCs are surprised and combat starts in initiative order.
Good luck out there!
I think I handle my 20's like this allot
This is how I do it, even if I still make it hard (like I invented a hidden compartment they had to work to get into). Its a bonus because even if they fail, they would never have magicked it into existance without the 20 anyway. So its a good bonus without making every 20 perfect, but the majority
A few weeks ago the rogue was looking around in a wine cellar. There where no secret passages or anything, but I let him roll anyway. He rolled a 20, so I said he found a small purse with some gold in it behind the barrels.