Harasser & MBT gun comparison
Posted Jan 18, 2017, 7:00 PM UTC
2774
does it not make more sense to compare the harasser varients with the tank varients (so harasser basilisk TTK and next to it MBT basilisk TTK) rather than 2 completely different guns?
4
No because that'd be like comparing the lightning guns to MBT guns. They are completely different platforms & I wanted to know how well the guns were balanced in the same category.
AKA how well the harasser guns were balanced compared to eachother & how well the MBT guns were balanced compared to eachother.
2
Ah yes I see what you were trying to get across in your video now. My mistake.
2
I find it humorous that the only mid range + choices for the TR Harasser are all the slowest TTK weapons. It's almost like the TR complaining over balance has something to it. Good video, well put together. I'll just be over here with my salt.
4
I am very sure the saron has a higher ttk than the gatekeeper in mid and longrange.
1
You can't really use gatekeeper at long range anymore. Mid range is doable if you're shooting MBT's or Sundies and they arent moving that much, good luck hitting a harasser with gatekeeper lol
3
I'd like to point out that the GK was the only weapon ever to be able to realiably hit moving harassers at long range. :/
2
Maybe before but after the nerf good luck hitting sunderers that are trying to dodge your long range shots
3
From the stats posted here that seems highly unlikely. Saron stands to easily loose 50% rpm at range due to the CoF bloom, which does terrible things to it's DPS.
1
I meant higher of course. Corrected it now.
1
Before it comes up:
I've tested the aphelion in 3 different ways. 6 round bursts from beginning to end, full auto, and a single 6 round burst then full auto until the gun's empty. The constant 6 round bursts are more ammunition efficient, but slower by about 0.5 seconds, while the full auto mode can't 1-clip.
Also keep in mind that the basilisk, vulcan and aphelion will not perform like this outside 10m even if you hit all shots since they have damage dropoff.
3
[This is what the chart looks like when you don't cut off the first 8 seconds] (http://i.imgur.com/5vVO8KQ.gif)
6
What I'm seeing here is that the Saron is way OP and the Vulcan and Gatekeeper are significantly UP, at least against a Sundy.
2
That is... if you don't factor in the main guns
7
So you're saying that TR can't have driver-gunner synergy? We should have to pull 2 separate Prowlers to have the advertised "highest MBT DPS"? That's bullcrap. Additionally, with how the Prowler is so terrible at actual close-range tanking, the Vulcan needs about 30% more DPS to compensate for the enormous drawbacks of bringing a Prowler that close. Alternatively, flatten the damage profile and boost the velocity so the TR can actually have a decent gun for midrange. That'd make the Gatekeeper even more obsolete, but what DBG did to the Gatekeeper is an absolute travesty that apparently will never get fixed.
It's also unconscionable that the MBT secondary with the fastest TTK is the Saron, the long-range best-at-everything gun.
3
Harassers don't have main guns.
2
It's important to consider that the Saron tends to loose a lot of that DPS at range because you have to limit the RPM in order to be able to hit anything with it's CoF bloom.
1
Saron is way OP
you are aware that you can only magdump the saron in extreme close quarters and the further the distance the slower you need to shoot or none of your shots will hit the target. over longer ranges you will shoot one shot per second and that will increase the TTK a lot while enforcer and gatekeeper will always have the same TTK over all ranges since the shots wont go full stormtrooper. Also the Saron is the only of the 3 ES long range options that really has to deal with a reloadspeed since:
- fully certed GK reloadspeed is only 1,25sec
- enforcer has a reload like a pump action shotgun
so the 2,5sec (fully certed) reload speed is the longest of all 3 options and the only that can bring you in a situation with your pants down.
1
Good post, easy to understand the graph in the end, nice one.
3
TR gets crap as always good thing i am not playing this shit anymore.. seriously tR weapons are a fucking joke fractures gatekeeper horrible! why are you hating the TR so much
2†
Vulcan is fine. And the GK-H would be fine if they nerfed the damage a little more, but took away the excessive drop. (shouldn't be any worse than the Enforcer)
Fractures are lolbad though.
1
if they nerfed the damage a little more
It already has the longest TTK of all ES secondaries; how much more do you want to take?
4
The Vulcan came in 3rd and is only good 10m or less, then has the quickest damage drop off over all. The GK-H already does shit damage and hardly works mid range. Nearly everything outperforms TR secondary vehicle weapons. But it's just a TR victim complex.
1
The Vulcan came in 3rd and is only good 10m or less, then has the quickest damage drop off over all.
It's also pretty easy to use
2
Not since wrel tightened up the aiming, Stevie Wonder cant miss with the Mjolnir now, including beyond vulcans useful range.
1
Good stuff
2
I'm still wondering why harasser topguns needed to be nerfed, on top of the repair / resistance changes.
Has anyone used the basilisk successfully since the buff or is it still 100% f2p garbage? That damage dropoff takes it from dead last to abysmally dead last, and then the harasser version nearly doubles the rate of falloff.
2
nonono, you see, the basi is also capable against infantry and air! /s
1
Hey! It IS capable!
2
The harassers were nerfed because they were going toe to toe with tanks. Were absolutely trashing lightnings.
1
This comparison is only useful when you assume that all engagements take place in point-blank range, which is hardly the case. Most of these weapons will perform completely different when used at mid or longrange.
2
Which is why I'm going to make a similar comparison at a longer distance (2-300m depending on if I can find a clear LoS in VR)
1
...on targets that are standing still. If you want to do it proper go to the Testserver and get a few ppl to help you, so that both you and the target are moving.
1
Not the point of these tests. If I'd use moving targets and I'd be moving I wouldn't be testing the TTK of these guns. I'd be testing how accurate I am with them.
Which is not what I want to find out.
1
What use is a theorectical TTK that you are unlikely to be able to reproduce on live?
If you just want minimum TTK you can just do the math, since DPS and HP are known values.
1
long story short :
fuck you moron wrel . going same path as idiot higby
2
looks like mjolnir is new meta
1
Really? You saw that video and you deducted that the mjolnir is the new meta?
It's literally not worth using when the enforcer performs so similarly. Since you know it has no CoF bloom, it has less drop and has a significant range advantage.
0†
And the mjolnir leaves you defenceless against infantry and air, at least the enforcer can shoot back to some success.
2
So what this is saying is that the bassilisk is superior to the Halbert for medium range on the harrasser?
1
Well keep in mind that the basilisk has a damage dropoff so it'll have slightly lower damage at range.
1
Yes this is true bit the moment you miss a shot with the Halbert you greatly prolong the TTK., and the mag capacity of the basilisk can be greatly increased That being the case, perhaps the basilisk actually is a viable harrasser weapon post patch?
1
Well yeah if you miss a shot or 2 the basilisk might be better than the halberd but compared to ES ranged AV guns it's really not.
Both the saron and the enforcer are significantly easier to use and have a lot faster TTK, the GK is also faster but it's drop on the harasser is huge so it's significantly more difficult to hit stuff especially when either you or the target is moving.
2
Youre right I forgot about considering the other long range AV. Thouh at least if I'm driving a poverty wagon I'll still be somewhat viable rather than Laughably useless
1
perhaps the basilisk actually is a viable harrasser weapon post patch?
no, not even close, if anything this shows that Halberd-H is underpowered, this video comparison only shows the Basi at its absolute highest potential DPS, something you will pretty much never achieve because you will die before you can get close enough to maximize the Basi's potential. 250 damage before 10m, down to 167 after only 60m, which pretty much means you'll be dealing 66% of the weapon's potential more often than not, i.e. you can increase that TTK to over 25 seconds.
1
Not to mention with the bassilisk you have to land every shot constantly while firing, and with the halberd you only have to land those fewer shots.
Just think when you're chasing something down. I'd rather have 4 shots I have to hit, compared to 400 bullets that spray everywhere.
1
So there's basically no reason to use Mjolnir or Vulcan on your MBT?
1
keep in mind that this doesn't account for pairing with the main gun's output, nor does it account for effectiveness against heavy armor
but for the most part, yeah, Enforcer has always been too good to go with anything else outside of fun factor (sniping infantry with Halberd, or going brawling with Mjolnir) and the Vulcan got nerfed hard enough from its heyday to become largely irrelevant outside of niche scenarios.
1
Enforcer has always been too good to go with anything else outside of fun factor
I hate to say that as a NC main, but I think it's true :/. It wasn't always like that because of the drop it used to have, limiting it's effectiveness at range, but now... The thing is I don't know how it should be balanced... Damage nerf ? reload nerf ? Mag size ?
On the other hand, Saron is also really solid, capable of burst damage at close range.
1
I don't think I'd go as far as to say that the Enforcer is OP, its just a nearly perfect compliment to the Vanguard. If anything the Mjolnir just isn't creative enough of a solution to make it a viable option without resorting to making the Mjolnir straight up OP.
If we really boil it down, the Mjolnir is basically an Enforcer +20% damage, but that damage is broken up from a high alpha round into a volley of 4 smaller rounds, instead of 500 damage round, its 4 x 150 = 600 damage. Obviously, if you average even just one grenade per volley going astray and missing the target, you would have been better off with the Enforcer, and considering the CoF on the volley, the projectile velocity, etc, there really aren't many scenarios where it makes sense to choose the Mjolnir over the Enforcer.
1
So, what kind of RPM did you use on the Saron? Doesn't look like the maximum.
1
I've no clue. I was spamming it as fast as I could.
1
That's unfortunate, since it invalidates this test as far as the saron is concerned. :/
For reference: Saron RPM is 300, which comes down to 5 per second. Ofc that rpm is only maintainable in very closer range.
1
So if I'd have set up a macro that fired as perfectly as possible the saron wouldn't have performed best in the MBT test?
Also you're missing the point of these tests. I'm a human player that's not cheating. These test are best-case scenarios for human players.
1
5 clicks per second is pretty attainable.
1
comparing basilisk and helberd and saying both need 17s is a little wierd. do the same over 100m and the helberd will still take 17s while the TTK of the basilisk will be a few seconds longer since it has damage drop off.
1
That's the crux of these kinds of tests, point blank sundy shooting isn't exactly representative of how a gun performs.
1
This is somewhat interesting. I've never even seen Aphelion outside of VR (though I play exclusively VS, so that might be why), even though it's supposedly pretty good.
I've also almost never been killed by the NC weapons, yet constantly by the TR ones. Are Miller TR more prone than Miller NC to pull vehicles or something?
1
So pretty much wrel gave the Mjolnir a 13% advantage in Harasser > Harasser battles, plus tightned up the aiming so even Stevie Wonder cant miss, from CQ right out to ranges outside of useful vulcan range.
GG! Nice and balanced :/
1
I made a detailed post about how the TR weapons are under-preforming, but this video gets the point across way better. Good work!
MUH TR VICTIM COMPLEX
The difference between the guns is pretty small and the TR guns are better at sustaining that DPS, while most other guns will suffer great DPS losses for each missed shot. The Saron especially is hard to rate because you have to vary the RPM so much.