Posted Jun 4, 2018, 3:09 AM UTC
congrats OP...
biggest stretch of analogy of the week.
I'm disappointed... But a little impressed with OPs effort
good initiative bad judgment...
bet he would be more iconic had he blocked the tanks in a Lambo!
In a moon costume, blocking the lambos!
Not sure about conflating cryptocurrencies with Tiananmen Square massacre, but happy that this atrocity is being talked about. Many young people from mainland China today are convinced that this never happened, or that only 1 or two students died as a result of in-fighting. CCP Propaganda has been very successful on this matter.
Most of them just don't know about it since it's not taught at schools.
More than not being taught in schools, it's wiped clean from any internet search in China. China is an authoritarian country that keeps tight control on what it's people are allowed to see. Which is one of the main reasons I don't get involved in mainland China based cryptos.
Makes sense, it's similar that in western countries they don't like to talk about the shitty side of colonialism or that the british ww2 bouncing barrel bomb which blew up a vital dam in germany probably killed a lot of civilians.
They touch on obvious subjects like slavery and history is freely available which is a big difference, but there is similar level of manipulation of media and what is taught, a huge one is that westerners believe there's no such thing as western propaganda.
The US actually has a ban on the production of movies and media which potrays the US army in a negative light, even the vietnam war is made out that US soldiers are the victims of the war rather than the vietnamese. Japan doesn't even teach about ww2 beyond the nuclear bombs which makes them the victims so it's clearly a common thing to paint yourself as the good guys.
It's not really similar. The US public school curriculum is biased, sure, but information is freely available and we don't jail people for having dissenting views.
Don't get me wrong, it's a big difference but when you're brainwashed to think in a certain way, whether the information is freely available or not it doesn't make a much of a difference because very few people want to hear about how shit their country or ancestors were.
Tell that to Assange and Snowden and that other guy that became a woman
The Dam busters are no secret at all, you want ww2 gossip, how about the rapes of the american liberating army in northern France?
I think they raped a lot of german civilians as well but yeah i didn't want to go down that rabbit hole.
There are high ranking Japanese politicians that are straight up adamant about certain conflicts never happening (like Nanking) when every history book outside japan states otherwise.
Its kinda scary living in Japan and seeing how history can be so warped and written so differently from what you know. There is a lot of dark WW2 hisory from the allied side, and while we arnt taught it about in school, enough of us are WW2 buffs and the info is out. In Japan its straight up misinformation. Kids today straight up think the USA attacked Japan.
Thanks, You gave me some interesting read. They did forgot to mention this in history class :D
Operation Chastise
Operation Chastise was an attack on German dams carried out on 16–17 May 1943 by Royal Air Force No. 617 Squadron, later called the Dam Busters, using a purpose-built "bouncing bomb" developed by Barnes Wallis. The Möhne and Edersee Dams were breached, causing catastrophic flooding of the Ruhr valley and of villages in the Eder valley; the Sorpe Dam sustained only minor damage. Two hydroelectric power stations were destroyed and several more damaged.
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They did forgot to mention this in history class :D
They made a movie of it and multiple documentaries and the pilots are considered national heroes in the UK. I don't get this idea that it's somehow hushed up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
This is a classic example of this deflection tactic being used. It was extensively used by Communist regimes and is now often used by Trump. Yes those things you bring up are all bad but it doesn't disprove or make the Tiananmen Square massacre any less bad or make it acceptable.
Whataboutism
Whataboutism (also known as whataboutery) is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument, which is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda. When criticisms were leveled at the Soviet Union during the Cold War, the Soviet response would be "What about..." followed by an event in the Western world.
The term "whataboutery" has been used in Britain and Ireland since the period of the Troubles (conflict) in Northern Ireland. Lexicographers date the first appearance of the variant whataboutism to the 1990s or 1970s, while other historians state that during the Cold War, Western officials referred to the Soviet propaganda strategy by that term.
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No it doesn't nor did i say it never happened, the op stated they don't teach it in school which i'm implying is common sense as no government would teach the same past atrocities.
Bringing up Tiananmen square in a crypto currencies sub reddit is just classic china bashing bias.
there is similar level of manipulation of media
In the West compared to China. Get out of here. The media in china is an extension of the government. It voices no view that critical of the communist party and that isn’t approved.
Sure western media might now be great, and there is plenty of bias, money and manipulation going on and greedy cunts like Rupert Murdoch muddying the waters, but to compare it to media in the level of manipulation china is flat out wrong.
In one country you will get arrested for promoting democracy or human rights whilst the word “disagree” was censored on Chinese social media platforms when Xi Jinping removed term limits from the Chinese constitution and potentially set himself up as leader for life. To compare that level of manipulation to western media is either ignorant or disingenuous.
Lots of people do know about it... but sadly they think the students "got what they deserved."
I recently spoke with a man who was about 20 around that time. He told me, "Only a few hundred died and they got what they deserved because they shut down the bus system."
I know a lot of younger people from China that don't know about the event. Older probably do, but newer generation - less likely.
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Kenn State shootings
Total number of deaths: 4
yeah, totally the same.
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I learned about Mai Lai and Wounded knee as well as Kent State in public schools. How are these the same again?
your point was to try to equate Kenn State shooting with Tiananmen Square massacre. now your point is shifting to try to equate multiple US shootings with single china massacre.
you're not getting it - the difference is not so much in number of killed/wounded but in the fact that Tiananmen is still forbidden story in China and talking about it will get you jailed. every US incident was widely discussed, there was some government response in each case, it's part of education curriculum.
tl;dr your point is bullshit.
Most people who were alive at that time know about kent state. It's still taught in school, and songs about it, like neil young's Ohio, are still played on the radio.
I don't think there is really anything that compares to the Tienanmen Square massacre in the US's recent history. However, most Americans don't know about the race riots in the early 20th century that were common where 100s of people died.
Seriously? Ever heard of #WMDs and the complete pack of lies Bush and Blair fabricated to wage an illegal war decimating Iraq resulting in the deaths of millions of people? Mm.... maybe those deaths just don’t count.
Tienanmen square was an attack on a government's own people on their own soil where >1000 died. I was only comparing to those types of massacres. America doesn't really have any of those in its recent history (past 50 years). That's what makes it so significant.
Just write this image to the blockchain.
This is not completely true, everyone knows it had happened since it was a nationwide student protest, not just a protest on Tiananmen square. The protests are still in the collective memory, the response by the government is however kept silent by authorities and its difficult to find information regarding the incident.
Well theymosed.
As a Chinese, what the fuck does Tiananmen square incident have to do with crypto at all. This is ridiculous.
The OP is claiming massacres are only possible due to central banks printing money.
That's why there were never any wars or massacres before the modern central banking era.
/s
I know right? This is the dumbest thing Ive seen on reddit for a long time. I mean Im not proud of what my country did but heck if someone tells me that has something to do with crypto...
Next thing you know, somebody gonna thank crypto for fall of the Berlin wall.
Half of reddit hates china, that's why they make extremely convoluted comparisons to big bad china whenever possible.
To be fair, China is pretty shit on a lot of fronts with regard to freedoms.
To be fair, the US is pretty shit on all other fronts. (Global warming, Flint's water, healthcare, opioids). I used to think China's communist government was terrible. After Trump, I think US's democracy is broken AF with people like Paul Ryan in office. The US government is so lobbied and bought by lobbyists. When I was young and naive, I used to think that the US was a good nation that cared for the world's best interests. Then I learned more about Vietnam, Nicaragua, Iran and BP, and I realized that America just cared about its own interests, like all other nations. Now, after Trump, I realized that Americans in power only care about the interest of themselves, not the rest of America, and certainly not the rest of the world. I used to wonder how America, such a great nation, could ever become second place, or how Rome fell. I see it now.
China's communism vs America's democracy vs whatever tf they have in Europe vs whatever Singapore's democracy was that allowed it to become wealthy - it's all a wash. We're all fucked. "I'm going to hell, who's coming with me?"
Fatalism on this stuff is pretty easy, and I can get how it becomes very easy to wash your hands of the government and retreat into carelessness.
one "pretty shit on all fronts" really doesn't equal the other "pretty shit on all fronts"
All other fronts? Really?
Is that why Chinese fights being labeled as a developed (and having to deal with having air pollution requirements) nation, when they are the number one manufacturer in the world?
And you can safely drink the tap water from 99% of china like you can in the US?
you might have a point on the opiods, but is that just because medicine isn't as good over there? theres a 3 year gap in life expectancy, and that takes into account of opiods and obesity.
Also, why the fuck are you lumping in BP (you know, British Petroleum) under America?
FFS our country has problems, but goddamn this is some overly rose tinted drivel.
Not sure that's anyone else's problem but to those who live in china and quite frankly most chinese don't really care.
We could say sharia law is shit, if not worse in many regards but quite frankly it's none of my buisiness to bring it up in none related discussions.
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As an English, I have to agree with you
It's very related.
Enlighten me
Both China and Crypto begin with the letter "C".
Illuminati confirmed.
Enlightment is coming just from inside. 😉 But here's the hint: disruption of worldwide system of governance, finances and everything.
And that has anything to do with the incident? Lmao, how delusional can you be? Youre either a bad troll or just a plain old idiot.
Today is also the 105th anniversary of when suffragette, emily davidson got trampled to death when she stepped in front of king george v's horse at the dery.
I have no fucking clue why this is related to cryptocurrencies.
Vive la revolution. Thats why.
What a self righteous bit of rubbish. I can’t believe you’d juxtapose those martyrs to people who invest in crypto. Holy shit
You must be new here...
I’m not but this is a new low
I’m not (new)...
Hyperbolic promotion of coins with little to no restraint is the raison d'être of places of like r/CryptoCurrency and r/Bitcoin.
Just look at this post: total bullshit, +900 upvotes.
Nothing has made me want to sell everything more than this post. You need help.
OP you are an embarrassment to us
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Historically, governments created central banks and fiat currency to help bankroll their wars and conflicts. In a crypto world there would be a lot less war since countries couldn't afford to fund ridiculously expense military programs and operations. However, war wouldn't come to a complete end until the abolishment of the state. Crypto takes us one step closer to doing so.
Who would fund healthcare and welfare???
The deep questions that arm chair anarchists will tell you doesn't matter because they are instruments of the state to better control your life.
Wuat.... how would they not be able to fund wars in crypto instead? Who do you think your crypto is going to go to when you pay for government facilities in the future? And do you honestly think the rich and powerful won’t be able to buy crypto if it becomes mainstream?
You’re still going to have to buy goods and services.... who owns the supply chains for goods and services? The rich and powerful. Point is, they’ll still end up with all your money anyway. Unless crypto somehow manages to educate the masses on resource allocation and international logistics. Nothing changes
You've missed my point. Wars are a lot easier to fund when you inflate the money supply. Yes, wars could still be funded to a degree with taxes as they've always been, but not nearly by as much as if governments could inflate the supply via the federal reserve.
It would be so much easier to fund a war using crypto. The most accepted currency world wide at the moment is the USD. Trying to move even thousands of USD around the world is very difficult. With crypto you can move millions of dollars on a USB. If i had the resources I could literally courier millions of dollars to a terrorist organisation over night and have them destabilise a whole country by the end of the month
Umm you pay taxes on crypto now so you are still funding the government
Ummm...about that...
In all seriousness, as I was trying to say, wars would still be funded, but by a lot less. Taxes on crypto aren't equal to inflating the money supply.
OP not everyone is an anarchocapitalist edgelord.
This may be one of the most offensive posts I have read in a long time on any sub. These two concepts are worlds apart.
One day we will replace all those tanks with Lambos.
wait.. what? such a weird comparison 🤔
but what if my ideal lambo is a Type 59 mbt?
Crypto isn’t stopping any wars.
Can maybe cause a trade war...
yet
I hope you never post something as idiotic as this again. You are making a mockery of a tragedy for worthless points on the Internet. Get the fuck out of here.
Clicked on this thinking it would be a disgusting ahistorical circle jerk and am pleased by quantity of posts like this one.
Don't forget that Israel kills Palestinians almost on a daily basis. Israel occupies Palestinian territory, basically Israel are terrorists.
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Exactly! America are the true terrorists actually also. You'll never hear China invading Iraq, it's always America.
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That's quite an elitist philosophy. Why is it more right killing uneducated palestinians than Chinese intellectuals? (although palestinians actually are not that uneducated -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_Palestinian_territories). Also, one has to ask why palestinians are "zombified" in the first place. The obvious answer seems to be that Palestinians have been oppressed by Israel for the past 60-70 years - which is comparable to the oppression of the Bantu people in the South African apartheid regime. They are not "zombies", but human people fighting for their right to live a peaceful and dignified life. I suggest you watch this debate with Chomsky and Dershowitz on the conflict - Here, Chomsky does a great job presenting historical facts and showing the systematic oppression of the Palestinian people
Education in the Palestinian territories
Education in the Palestinian territories refers to the educational system in Gaza and the West Bank administered by the Palestinian Ministry of Education and Higher Education. Enrollment rates amongst Palestinians are relatively high by regional and global standards. According to a youth survey in 2003, 60% between the ages 10–24 indicated that education was their first priority. Youth literacy rate (the ages 15–24) is 98.2%, while the national literacy rate is 91.1% Enrollment ratios for higher education were 46.2% in 2007, among the highest in the world.
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Blah BLah ... My whole point was based on the idea conveyed in the link I posted. It was never a comparison of how more or less educated a person was. Those palestinians are being brainwashed to kill from a young age, so they deserve the death that comes with that abnormal sociopathic education. The Chinese who were killed were not terrorists or assassins who were out to kill. They were just simply asking for a democratic govt. You are trying to twist my words into something I never meant or said.
yeah, you completely missed my point. You need a more holistic approach. You simply cannot neglect the role of israelis in the brainwashing of Palestinians. The brainwashing - or the hatred - is a counter reaction to the oppression. Likewise the oppressed bantu people established a military organisation - MK - who sought to fight the white man regime by the means of violence.
If you are consistent in your logic, you will likewise say that the brainwashed bantu people deserved to die.
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, but human people fighting for their right to live a peaceful and dignified life.
The situation is not so simple as you claim. I will believe this guy who was a hamas youth leader before. I do not want to continue this discussion here either as this is not related to crypto.
Comparing this shit to Tiananmen shows your lack of respect for those who died that day, you are using their death and their protest to push your own interests. I am ashamed to be subscribed to this sub seeing how many people have upvoted this bullshit.
Lol crypto doesn't help if you face the military. This is stupid.
Yeah, this is one of the most unwarranted conclusions I've seen about cryptocurrencies, that they'd somehow be able to fix what's wrong.
Capitalism itself is wrong. Certainly the Chinese dictatorship is also wrong, more directly, but both are horrible.
Cryptocurrencies operate within capitalism so they won't really change that much, assuming they even succeed to the point where fiat currencies are inconvenienced.
Chinese "dictatorship" is wrong but necessary
Crypto = Change from inside.
More information for those that may be too young to understand what happened or those that had the knowledge of the event censored.
Then, Sir Alan wrote, “The 27 Army APCs [armoured personnel carriers] opened fire on the crowd before running over them. APCs ran over troops and civilians at 65kph [40 miles per hour].” Sir Alan added: “Students understood they were given one hour to leave square, but after five minutes APCs attacked. “Students linked arms but were mown down. APCs then ran over the bodies time and time again to make, quote ‘pie’ unquote, and remains collected by bulldozer. “Remains incinerated and then hosed down drains.”
jesus fuck.
Hahahahha stopping war.....are you crazy?
It don’t matter what they use to pay for their wars.
As long as there are people war will exist
Governments do not print money at will, that would cause hyperinflation and result in worthless money and actually inhibit a government's ability to wage war.
The Tiananmen square protests were about democracy, free speech and political freedoms, driven by changes in Europe, the opening of the Chinese economy and moderate factions within the CCP. Its unfortunate ending was the result of Deng's decision to declare martial law and send in the army, a move that had mixed reactions within his own party.
Please don't involve crypto with this protest to water down the beliefs those students stood for.
They were not about democracy (in the Western sense). There were lots of mixed groups there advocating for different things. And yes you're right it should never be hijacked for crypto "activism" bullshit.
LOL „mixed groups advocating for different things“ is a pretty good description of the democratic method. But yeah, crypto may even be the antithesis to that, since it is a method to decentralize power without changing its distribution system, so making it harder to reverse it. On the other hand if we manage to establish a new egalitarian process of distributing power crypto could be a great method to make it functional
This.
I'm not quite sure where this liberal ideology of crypto progressing free speech and political freedoms comes from (most likely from a complete and utter ignorance as to what blockchain technology actually is/ does), but that is not blockchains purpose. Although blockchain can, and most likely will, have effects on the principals of the Tiananmen Square protests (and their place in modern society), I am getting tired of hearing people go off these about utopian promises of rainbows and butterflies.
*principles
You can remember it because a principal is your pal (well, somebody's. Maybe?)
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It comes from the crypto anarchists roots if Bitcoin. Generally the people who launched bitcoin were cryptoanarchists. They included the anti-bank headline in the genesis block in the wake of the start of the financial crisis. I am pretty sure these guys had a notion of what blockchain can do, I mean they created the first one.
If you were active in bitcointalks and subreddits more than 4 or 5 years ago, you would know where all these libertarian and anrchist ideas come from. It was all anti-fed, anti-fractional-reserve-lending, anti central bank etc... back then.
The Government debt is the same as printing money. They are borrowing money from the central banks and the central banks can create money from nothing. Here is the US national debt clock. It's kinda fun to watch http://www.usdebtclock.org
As far as I'm aware a big chunk of government debt is owned by US civilians, institutions and other countries in the form of bonds, they don't print money. I think what you are referring to is Quantitative Easing which is where the central bank buys up said bonds and other assets but up to until the 2008 crisis the level of QE was like only around 6% of GDP.
So comparing government debt to printing money seems pretty dubious unless I'm wrong.
Quantitative easing
Quantitative easing (QE), also known as large-scale asset purchases, is an expansionary monetary policy whereby a central bank buys predetermined amounts of government bonds or other financial assets in order to stimulate the economy and increase liquidity. An unconventional form of monetary policy, it is usually used when standard monetary policy has become ineffective at combating inflation or deflation that falls below policy targets. A central bank implements quantitative easing by buying specified amounts of financial assets from commercial banks and other financial institutions, thus raising the prices of those financial assets and lowering their yield, while simultaneously increasing the money supply. This differs from the more usual policy of buying or selling short-term government bonds to keep interbank interest rates at a specified target value.
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Yeah, they borrow money from the central bank which they have to pay back. That's what a debt it. And yeah, the central bank prints money but they do so at a regulated and planned out pace.
And when you say “they” you mean us, the tax payers. All the money “loaned” to the big banks to bail them out that wasn’t repaid by the banks is owed by the tax payers.
Also, quantitative easing is direct money printing.
True that
Fractional banking aswell
That money that is loaned is absolutely printed out of thin air.
I get what op is saying, I appreciate the clarification of facts but op has a point that involves all acts of power by governments against their own people. Wealth is what drives war and empowers evil regimes and crypto is part of the deteriorating of that power. Don't ever forget that, or you're in this for the wrong reason.
Fuck I have so many problem with this comment I don't even know where to start so I'll just jump right in.
Telling people what they're into or not, passing judgement on their reasons.... who died and made you the messiah? No seriously, did you wake up one day with the confidence to determine the appropriate reasons people can or cannot use to get into cryptocurrency? Or did it come naturally over time? You talk about the freedom everyone will have when the cryptopia is brought about but you behave like a authoritarian, somehow I get the feeling your utopia would be my dys... but I digress.
A point which he or she decided not to make, a point you inferred from your own PERSONAL reasons for getting into this.
Crypto is still wealth, wealth is completely objective, it has no inherent "good" or "evil" properties to it.
When you anthropomorphize something in order to assign a value based on your own subjective values, you tend to take the blame away from the actual PEOPLE who commit these acts you've attributed to the anthropomorphized concept. This, in my opinion, contributes heavily to people's disengagement with politics or social issues these days...
By representing wealth as this concept riddled with "good" and "evil" and then saying "Wealth drives war, wealth drives evil regimes" you DRIVE the idea that nothing can be done about it because not much can be done about wealth but it's built on a falsehood - People, not wealth, drive wars. People, not wealth, prop up corrupt regimes. Rich people perhaps but people are already getting "Crypto-rich" or "crypto-wealthy". To assume that this wealth is somehow "cleaner" because it's generated by cryptos instead of fiat would be childish.
tell me honestly what's to stop the alt-right from using Cryptos to start a "Kill HRC" fund? Tell me honestly what's to stop G4S or Blackwater's successor (well known purveyors of Private military outfits) from accepting contract settlements in LTC or BCH?
Tell me honestly how you're crypto is morally pure when I can right now buy more drugs in BTC than I ever could in FIAT???
Wow you're ideas are far fetched and baseless. Most of your rant is unintelligible but just to completely shut down your last question. I think you and I should be allowed to buy as many drugs as we feel necessary for our lives no matter what form. It's not a war on drugs it's a war on personal freedom keep that in mind at all times.
Don't think he watering it down think what he's saying is people deserve to be free. Not to be controlled by governments and made to believe they have a choice.
the thing is people start using cryptos as the solution for everything without ever giving even one single real world example how exactly this would work and actually benefit someone.
this here is a prime example of cryptos not doing anything for it because OP didnt understand what these protests were about.
Yup, OP is naive as fuck. Just the tanks pictured could probably crush and destroy every GPU rack in China in a day. Oh but crypto is borderless you say? The Great Firewall of China will (further) block whatever it wants. Oh but I have my crypto offline in a secure hardware wallet in my grandmother's attic in Fujian province you say? Sounds like a really liquid, trade-able solution! But let's not pick on China. All major governments will eventually ban/control any crypto threatening said government's control over it's money supply
People need to be controlled by governments, that's why societies exist.
I think the question being asked is where does the line get drawn? Prohibiting the government from issuing fiat currency seems like a reasonable line to draw given the history of government and fiat.
As long as the government doesn't do the vice versa and prohibit the use of crypto
You mean "organised" right?
Better term to use yes
You underestimate people
People where not given consciousness to be controlled by other people who are exactly the same as them. How can a human control a human which one is right or wrong. Humans control animals as we are superior to them. Who is superior when it comes to a human and a human
Lololilillllll zomg bro u got me rofl
Government does more harm than good, society would be better off without gov
Tiananmen was largely anti-corruption iirc, although the other reasons mentioned were also a significant part.
Australia's banking is under a royal commission at the moment and it's exposing corruption everywhere.
US housing crisis is obv too long ago now to remember?
Maybe they do not print it at will, but they do print shitload of it: https://youtu.be/iFDe5kUUyT0
But I agree, this post is pointless lol
The US treasury, a government institution, literally prints money every single day.
Well yeah notes wear out pretty quickly
OP stated that the government doesn’t print money, that statement is literally incorrect. Whether or not money printing constitutes monetary inflation is an entirely separate discussion (pro-tip: in some cases it does).
OP said governments don't print money "at will"
It's disgusting how this post is trying to conflate crypto with this tragedy. Stop trying to use this event as part of your crypto narrative OP. Sure you can bring awareness to it, but you're literally using this as a propaganda machine. OP couldn't taste irony if it hit him in the mouth. This is the crypto equivalent of Kendall Jenner's Pepsi ad
The first part of this reply about governments not printing money at will is factually incorrect. Governments have been doing this since the Roman times as a means of wealth extraction from the population.
Read the book called The creature from Jekyl island, it will change everything you thought you knew.
I always appreciate seeing the statements I can’t put into words myself. Thank you
Your statement is bullshit. When the government needs liquidity the Fed prints money—at will. It hasn’t caused hyperinflation yet. It might one day.
Government will usually increase the money base (what I assume you mean by liquidity) by purchasing bonds it previously issued with cash.
Governments don't print money when it needs money, they issue bonds. The printed money is literally replacing old bills to be taken out of circulation, barring a very small percentage.
Yes, they can print money at will, yes it will cause hyperinflation, and governments will try to avoid doing so at all costs.
Just to be clear deflation can be just as harmful to an economy as high or erratic inflation.
The Fed could print so much money that the dollar could fail. Nothing would be as bad as that.
'The Fed would bankrupt themselves on purpose, not just on an institutional level but on a personal level for every single employee as well'
Lol makes sense