In reality, how censorship resistant is XMR?
If all centralised exchanges banned XMR due to regulation, could a decentralised exchange provide a censorship resistant means to still trade XMR?
Posted Jul 13, 2018, 1:42 AM UTC · edited
As long as it can be mined, stored and more than one person wants XMR, it will not die.
XMR could and would still be mined and remain dominant in the dark web.
Most of the buyers on DNMs are not very smart. If they can’t buy from Coinbase they probably wouldn’t use it. Back when reddit didn’t suck so much we had DNM subreddits where sellers would talk about crazy things like only 20% of people encrypt their messages with PGP. There is only 1 DNM that only accepts Monero and it’s not that popular. Most just use BTC/LTC.
If you had to meet up locally or mine for XMR only, usage on the DNMs would fall to near zero. The amount of fiat that runs through them is just too high. There needs to be fiat on ramps.
That one DNM that only accepts monero is dead now. It’s unsure whether it was an LE takedown or a scam, but either way they’re long gone
I'm too lazy to keep up with the drama, I really miss that subreddit. Thanks for the info.
I really miss that subreddit
yeah man, RIP
I pray to all gods that a viable alternative to reddit emerges soonish. the dnm-related space on voat sucks, as does the rest of the site and its userbase
True. Plus to the vendors it doesn't matter, because they can exchange all the BTC to XMR and have the same effect than receiving XMR would have.
Guys I’m pretty darn sure there’s at least 2 current markets accepting monero. Dream for sure I believe and wall street or tochka
I have to add that there is more than 1. I think 2 or 3.
There are a few that accept it, but there was one market that was Monero only.
localmonero.co
What is DNM`s and PGP "?
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Thanks ;)
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I don't think it would. The Monero project doesn't do or condone anything illegal.
Either way, it makes me think of a Robert Anton Wilson quote:
“I have read a great deal of economic theory for over 50 years now, but have found only one economic "law" to which I can find NO exceptions:
Where the State prevents a free market, by banning any form of goods or services, consumer demand will create a black market for those goods or services, at vastly higher prices.
Can YOU think of a single exception to this law?”
^(Credits to u/illexample)
Also, one word: r/Kovri
Asbestos price
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Yes, agreed, but still what i wrote is an exception to the rule above, defeating the whole thesis.
Where X, consumer demand will create Y
Consumer demand is part of the thesis
Monero is not a normal product. Whether transactions are carried out with small parts of Monero or large parts, transactions are just as effective. That is not like a normal product or commodity.
Will Monero continue to get used at all? Yes.
But will banning Monero make it more valuable? No.
In a world with 1000 shells as currency, the value of any shell depends on how many people want to use shells for transactions. The same holds for Monero. Less demand will mean any quantity of Monero can be worth less, but the total value of all Monero will work well to handle the fewer transactions demanded.
Another way of looking at this, is unlike most banned substances, like drugs, banning does not result in a tighter supply. Tight supplies push up prices. Banning Monero does not decrease the supply of Monero but it does decrease demand. Thus Monero loses value.
Well that is not correct. The supply on the market will decrease due to risk involved.
XMR isn't a good or service, it's a currency. This is uncharted territory.
Many years ago (40+) it was not allowed in my country to trade the local currency for foreign currency unless you had a very good reason which would grant you a permit. Yes, we had a black market for foreign currency at vastly higher prices.
+1 Thanks for sharing! That hits it perfectly.
Yes. Exceptions would be something where the product is unsafe (either to consumer or environment) but cheaper than the safe version, and the government bans the unsafe version and requires people to use the safe, slightly more expensive one. Like asbestos and leaded gasoline
Totally agree! It is remarkably how prohibitive measures lead to a completely opposite result. Forbidden fruit is always sweet.
Lol. You do know the monero team is behind GRAFT. Look up the definition of that word.
Laws are made to protect a certain group of people. Trust me, those people arent you and me.
With "GRAFT" you mean this GRAFT project with a coin forked from Monero?
By the time this happens we will be comfortable enough using decentralized exchanges.
This is my primary interest with this question. Is there any degree of centralisation of a decentralized exchange that controls which cryptos are exchangeable. Or can anyone add a crypto to a decentralized exchange.
Depends on how open the code is. Ideally yes you can add this is code.
If the code is open, then alot of the time the code with fork and another decentralized exchange can be born.
Hey, cyborg23_, just a quick heads-up:
alot is actually spelled a lot. You can remember it by it is one lot, 'a lot'.
Have a nice day!
^^^^The ^^^^parent ^^^^commenter ^^^^can ^^^^reply ^^^^with ^^^^'delete' ^^^^to ^^^^delete ^^^^this ^^^^comment.
Good bot.
Sounds promising.
Any github based projects that I can watch to stay updated / dig deeper?
https://github.com/monero-project/kovri < I2P routing for Monero connections, helps circumvent censorship in oppressive countries
https://github.com/bisq-network/bisq-desktop < FIAT dex that runs through Tor (ew..). Still top of the line though as far as decentralized exchanges go though.
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I was under the impression Monero didn't have a mechanism for atomic swaps, which are needed for trustless decentralised exchanges (all the DEXs I know that handle Monero use reputation systems, or trustful pegs).
Is my information outdated?
Drugs never had a centralized exchange and they still exist.
tbeyre also not used as a store of real value over the long term
you turn that drug cash into real estate or other assets.
He who controls the spice controls the universe.
Don't charge for spice.
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+1 Ha! Good one. Very astute observation.
If a decentralised exchange had enough volume, then XMR would manage somehow. However, in the current state, it would be very damaging to Monero. More needs to be done to promote censorship resistance across the crypto world
I hope as a community we can popularize dex to encourage liquidity
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If it’s not profitable to mine. It will not be mined.
Unless monero is worth close to zero that should never happen. The difficulty to mine monero adjusts itself depending on the total hashrate.
Fail. I mine BTC with my CPU.
It's a Pentium II.
Damn. The world can change, but not you, you’re not gonna stop doing things your way you beautiful bastard!
The odds of that happening are slim to none. As countries like Hong Kong and Singapore are pretty much down with anything and they will support xmr.
If it does happen, there are decentralized exchanges (no rulers essentially). Maybe a Localbitcoin type of thing. Or u can dm me for Monero haha and many others on Reddit and Other forums would do the same. It would be mined as well. Xmr could go to $1 but it won’t ever disappear until something else out competes it
Yes
If the media refused to report on it would Bill Clinton still be a rapist?
bitbattles.ss
Centralized exchanges without fiat-on ramps would probably remain, so the BTC / XMR pair would remain tradable. Which is the situation right now as fiat pairs have quite a low volume compared to BTC / XMR.
yes but the price would go to hell for quite some time. tried to resist that for too long time, but it's obvious to me now that it just can't be good investment opportunity. as for usage, it currently rules as the only real money we have now.
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Is there an opendime workalike for Monero that i've not heard about?
For now you do.
It's Aeon that has the no-internet transaction protocol.
Monero is not compatible yet.
Bitcoin existed before there were institutional exchanges too, i don't see how any other crypto would not. Of course value will reflect accessibility, but it will still exist... Also, decentralized exchanges. I've made good trades on Bisq.
it can be mined, traded OTC and on DEXes
Of course. It's p2p. And you're not exactly using Monero if your exchange is holding the spend key.
No.
yes