How is this still a thing. The deathmatch was almost finished, it was 5 minutes in, and then 2 people left. Entire deathmatch canceled.
WHY? It's not like there are teammates who are being negatively effected by leavers. It makes no sense.
Please blizzard. No reinstancing in deathmatch.
Posted Sep 25, 2018, 12:02 PM UTC
Deathmatch needs a serious overhaul. This is far from the only problem.
And of course there are solutions but Blizzard seems incapable of doing them.
Add a permanent FFA card. Relegate the weekly maps & Mystery DM to a separate card on rotation or something. I don't care, I wouldn't touch them myslef.
Alert only on Final Blows with the text "Final Blow: NAME".
Disable assists as a factor for scoring what should be the POTG.
Automatically award backfilling players the lowest score -1 so they have a fighting chance. That is to say, if 7th place has 12 points, a new person backfilling will come in with 11 points.
Obviously they have other priorities and it's not as if they can just throw this shit together in a week, but I can't imagine that it would be that hard in the grand scheme of things. DM is the most stress-free game mode in Overwatch with the least amount of bullshit... with the exception of the things listed above.
Your second 1 basically answers your first 1. They keep it to one card to keep the queue short. If there were multiple both queues would be longer and a lot of people would stop playing any of them which would snowball the problem into nobody playing FFA. It's happened in the past with arcade. Wind up with 10 minute queues and extra super shit tier game balance.
Edit: to your second number 2: ID almost say place them in 5th place with and average of the current #4 and #5 points. While a little unfair for those below #4, the last spot is very often a guy fucking around on a bad hero who doesn't care. Being put in 5th gives you an actual fighting chance to take top 4 nearly every time.
Also, FFA leavers should suffer some sort of queue penalty for future FFA games. Like the next time within 24 hours that you queue for FFA you wait a minimum of 10 minutes in queue. This way leaving and re-queing after a minute is not a time saver anymore.
Still, they shouldn't lock DM into one map a week.
That I agree with. I much prefer a map rotation even though I hate a couple of them.
Exactly-- If there's a map for DM that I dislike that's up for a week, it's just like "welp I guess i'm not playing DM this week"
I always thought they should rotate between Chateau/Petra and the all maps mode.
I’d be fine with that— it would be better if there were more DM maps but I get why there aren’t
I'd rather have a longer queue than have to deal with weeklong map locks or Mystery DM.
Actually, we wouldn't even need the map lock ones. When was the last time you saw Rialto in the Arcade? Or Horizon Lunar Colony? Yet for some reason, every 3-4 weeks like clockwork, we still get Guillard and Petra like it's the week the maps came out. It's silly.
Retire them entirely, put FFA DM as its own permanent card, and throw Mystery DM into the general rotation of random shit in the other cards.
Also, I do agree that Regular and Mystery FFA should be separate cards. A lot of people use regular FFA for off time practice. While mystery is kind of fun, it does not provide that at all. They should also really just leave FFA on map rotation. One map all week blows.
Are rialto and horizon FFA maps now? I've been away a bit due to life BS.
Also, be sure to check my edit on my last post.
No, they're not. Let me give you some more context.
When a new map comes out (as we most recently saw with Busan), a special Arcade card with the map name pops up. This way people can guarantee some games on the new map. Simple, right?
After that first week, it's really quite rare to see these single map cards ever again. In fact, I can't ever recall seeing them for maps past their inaugural week.
Now, the same exact thing happened with Chateau Guillard and Petra. We got a card for just that map. Great for launch week, right?
Except... it didn't just show up for launch week. It shows up every week. On rotation. That means previously, you would only get FFA DM with the full map rotation for 1 out of every 3 weeks. With the (likely) addition of Mystery DM into the rotation, it is now 1 out of every 4 weeks.
Hero viability is map dependent. Limiting the map limits the hero pool and impacts variety severely. Quite frankly, it's shit.
thatd be super unfair to the dude in 5th. put them in a tie for 6th or MAAAYBE a tie for 5th but not fucking ahead of 5th
About queue times and multiple selections for deathmatch.
I totally think they could do it by loosening the matchmaking algorithm. I feel it's a bit too tight for FFA, and surprisingly the rare rounds where it's so close that everyone has 15+ at the end are... actually not as fun as they should be. FFA is a mad house anyway, so I don't think it would be too terrible to experiment with increasing the skill range in matchmaking.
Keep in mind though, if there is a Chateau-only FFA, that one will get picked every time.
As far as Mystery FFA
I was actually looking forward to this mode and it ended up being HORRIFYING. I previously self-imposed a sense of "Mystery" on myself in normal FFA by forcing myself to pick a new character every time I died. Thing is, 90% of the time I'd pick a DPS character. Even Torbjorn. The only tank I would ever pick was Roadhog, and I'd feel dirty for doing it. Pretty much every other tank is not fun for both me or my opponents.
So what have we been saying all along? Tanks don't belong in FFA. Were we right? Totally, and Mystery FFA proves it. They need to remove the tanks and Brigitte (who is really a tank) and try Mystery FFA again. I guarantee it will be a lot more fun.
About final blows
I am with you there.
And backfill
I don't know if starting a backfill with -1 kill from the lowest is a good idea in games where it gets really close. It's already enraging enough losing 4v4s to the enemy team getting backfilled by God's-Gift-To-Pro-Genji-Players. Imagine barely hanging on to 4th in FFA only to have a backfill show up, roll junkrat, and get a triple kill. However, maybe they could make it so that backfill always counts as a win. This way it will help alleviate pressure from people trying to get their arcade wins.
(Or it could make it worse)
If backfill always counts as a win I can imagine people joining and leaving games until they find a backfill. Games full of nothing but ‘I’m not playing unless I’m guaranteed to win’ backfillers!
Perhaps a system that detects if the user quit the previous game and would not award a win for backfilling the next game.
That's a dangerous move for a single win because joining and leaving repeatedly flags your account for an XP penalty after a few leaves.
We have 8 people on an FFA match, the first solution should rarely end in someone backfilling just to win a match with no effort.
So what have we been saying all along? Tanks don't belong in FFA. Were we right? Totally, and Mystery FFA proves it.
As a Rein FFA player, I don't like this we tone...
I also hate getting 100 fire for a kill in a chaotic battle that was credited to someone else. Makes no sense in the chaos. 99 at most if you didn’t finish it.
Yeah, that's another point that I forgot. Assists are also counted for the Fire Meter. You shouldn't get Fire for helping your opponents. It's counter-intuitive.
I understand some fire. But getting 100 for a kill you didn’t get is counterintuitive and stupid. And, in chaos, inexplicable.
They also need to do better with pit knockback deaths. It’s like 50/50 as to whether or not it counts for you.
The current system is entirely reliant on kills.
Assists are not factored in whatsoever (despite being a statistic in the end stats). But assists make up, I would argue, the bulk of the entire mode!
How often do you chip away at an enemy's health trying to survive, just barely making it, about to kill them...and reaper comes around the corner and pops a single shotgun blast at them and gets all credit for the kill?
It is inherently unfair. Yes, you could do that too- go around noting enemies about to die, interrupting fights, etc- but I don't think that should count as quality play. I think that's a cheesy way to go about the game and the game's already built-in Fire system should be used to make the game more interesting.
I have plenty of fun setting up Symmetra's sentries and waiting for killfeed notifications of people running to health packs. But it's not a fair or fun way to play, for me or my enemies.
As it is right now, the fire system works based on your percentage of contribution. If you kill an enemy entirely, you get 100 fire. If you do 25% damage, you get 25 fire.
But in Deathmatch, doing even 1 single damage to a Roadhog, as long as it's the last damage, counts as the entire kill.
In Deathmatch, your Sentry and another Symmetra's Sentry can both be attacking someone, and as far as I can tell, who gets the kill is random. In a fair game, since both of you (if they walked into line of sight of both at the same time, obviously) did half the damage, you'd both get half the credit. Credit would be based on active participation in the kill- not who randomly gets rolled as the one who did the last single point of damage.
Likewise, constant assist notifications even when assists don't mean anything are an annoying audio feedback the mode could really benefit from dropping. Imagine your car telling you your passenger seat belts are unbuckled, even if nobody's sitting in them. Wouldn't that be annoying? Assist notifications feel the same way. The noise tells you something happened, but it didn't. Someone died, sure, but you didn't get a point for it, so what do you care? At least, it should have a different sound effect in death match- so you can use it as a "the enemy I was pursuing died, and I can change course" notification. But hearing the standard "You killed someone!" noise when you didn't do that is distracting, confusing, and annoying.
This is all especially true in Mystery Deathmatch which has potential to be one of the best modes in the game, but is marred by things like spawning as Mercy in a game full of heroes with heavy skill sets. At the very least, if the fire system were utilized towards scoring, you could get some points in simply by hitting the broad side of a roadhog or a d.va, before getting punched to death by doomfist.
And this means that solo-kills would still hold great value, because they would give the most points- discouraging going for chip-damage on almost-dead enemies currently engaged in a fight. You'd benefit from doing that, but not as much.
Another change I'd like to see considered is playing to a certain time, regardless of whether or not someone already won. 1st place has 19 kills. 2nd place has 10. Everyone else has 9 or less. But if 1st place gets 1 more kill, the entire match is over. I think the match should continue until 4 players get 20 kills (Or in this case, whatever counts as winning- I do not have any specific ideas for what should count as winning, but this is an example using the existing rules) or time runs out! That way, everyone else gets to continue to compete. This would also make games where someone is steamrolling- either via luck, or skill- less frustrating, because it means you still have a chance to rise up to top 4 even after they're done kicking everyone's ass. The players who win could either drop out like normal or continue to spectate.
It would be great if they could give backfillers a second independent 'win' condition based on the score of the leader at the time they join. Like if you join 12 kills down, you get a 'win' if you get 8 kills before the match ends, and maybe even give them a second win if they manage top four as well
Man, I hate the elims thing. Feeling good, getting multiple double-kills and stuff, tab and "oh. 3 kills".
Hidden SR seems shared in all Arcade. This has a terrible effect.
Example: You play Team FFA. The first 10-15 games are lopsided. One team or the other is crushing it. After a while this evens out as SR is normalized for people that are playing a lot of that mode. Matches at the end of the week are longer, more entertaining, and closer. You do well and feel good about progression in skill. The next week FFA is Petra locked map. You queue up and everyone on the first game is 1000 SR higher than you (looking at comp score). You quit after 3 games of getting your ass pounded. A bit later you queue up into a game and crush everyone. It's not much fun.
So...
POTG algorithm[...]
Holy shit this. I was the victim of a triple kill steal and POTG went to one of the ones who was stolen from.
Deathmatch should not reinstance after 2 leavers ever. Maybe if people leave, make it that last player staying in the insance receives the win. This way no-one wants to leave and if someone leaves, it wont affect the instance anyways.
Or at least make assists the tiebreaker if 2+ people have the same # of kills.
confirmation alerts on Eliminations when Final Blows are what counts for your score.
This is 100% necessary for Genji, but arguably uselsess for other roles. So yeah, they could redo it so only genji sees an elim counter and ther others get a "kill assist" type notification.
I'd say that we should factor assists into the game, even if it's just as a tie breaker (instead of who got that many kills first), or having 2 assists = 1 kill. It's super frustrating to have something like 15 kills and 10 assists, because someone else grazed them for the final damage after you had a good fight going, and the kill-stealer wins having done none of the work.
Agree completely except for backfillers. Backfill is not a waste of time, it exists so the game does not collapse and the next game is full. Deathmatch is a fast mode, you get to warm up for a few minutes before the next round begins.
I'd also add that assist 100 should count as a kill.
And please replace the regular FFA with mystery FFA, so much better.
Yeah, it's incredibly bullshit. Shame since it's my favorite gamemode but it's happened to me so much now.
I think there has been an increase of leavers in all Arcade modes (i only play arcade).
I've seem a people die a few straight times, leave, get back in the same game, afk, then leave again. It's a pain in the ass especially when it's early in a game.
I really don't get that way of thinking. Sure, it's only arcade, and yet... it's only arcade. See if you can pull the game out of the crapper and win.
It's always funny to see someone leave on your defense team because you lost the first point early while the rest of the team chooses better characters. Or before someone gets their main in mystery and proceeds to not die again. Get a new player, win before the next point. I honestly think it happens more often than not.
If you leave without trying a new strategy, you're legitimately a bad Overwatch player.
I almost never come in 1st place on death match but one game I was playing better than I ever had before and was in 1st by a longshot, then it reinstanced at 19 kills. I was so disappointed.
If you were winning as Anna, hats off.
Just click on them. Easy boxes.
If you kill someone in Deathmatch and then that player leaves. You should get an XP bonus for slaying so hard.
Barbe-qq
Even worse, people still get backfilled into deathmatch games with no chance of catching up. FFA should never need backfilling.
Kind of like when you take the first point in a comp game really quick and some little bitch on the other team quits out and totally cancels the match. Fuck that. Give me my win, Blizzard.
Had the same issue last week, I also posted on reddit. I don't understand how is that possible
They need to have immediate (but minor) temp bans on leaving qp/arcades before their completion (after the first ~30s). Something like 5-10 minutes for leaving and another 5-10 if the match they left is canceled because of it and have the penalty carry between sessions if they exit the game after.
I agree. Most games are against people leaving casual matches, Overwatch is the most lenient of them. Leaving matches should be discouraged, even if you need to put people behind a counter until they can queue again. Maybe this way people will start trying to win in casual instead of quitting.
Sorry, I'd rather not be held hostage to a bunch of people I no longer want to play with.
Held hostage?? In a video game?? Sounds like someone needs a 5 minute break anyway
This shit happened to me before. I was 10 kills ahead and 6 players got salty and left. Game shutdown and counted as a loss in the career profile. Thanks, Blizzard.
Happens more on Monday Tuesday as people are after loot boxes. Fall too far behind quit and restart.
i had a similar experience a while back. playing mei's snowball fight, my team is about to win 3 straight rounds. im dead and spectating the dude whos about to hit the last enemy. the snowball is literally in midair when 1 more dead player on the enemy team gets sick of waiting around and leaves. whole match shuts down right then. no one gets exp and my team doesnt get the acheivement spray for winning all rounds. because a few too many already dead players left the match
But then you get a 'free' win and 'free' lootboxes and Blizzard is not in business of giving away it's core product.
Deathmatch in general is a mess. The current system is entirely reliant on kills.
Assists are not factored in whatsoever (despite being a statistic in the end stats). But assists make up, I would argue, the bulk of the entire mode!
How often do you chip away at an enemy's health trying to survive, just barely making it, about to kill them...and reaper comes around the corner and pops a single shotgun blast at them and gets all credit for the kill?
It is inherently unfair. Yes, you could do that too- go around noting enemies about to die, interrupting fights, etc- but I don't think that should count as quality play. I think that's a cheesy way to go about the game and the game's already built-in Fire system should be used to make the game more interesting.
I have plenty of fun setting up Symmetra's sentries and waiting for killfeed notifications of people running to health packs. But it's not a fair or fun way to play, for me or my enemies.
As it is right now, the fire system works based on your percentage of contribution. If you kill an enemy entirely, you get 100 fire. If you do 25% damage, you get 25 fire.
But in Deathmatch, doing even 1 single damage to a Roadhog, as long as it's the last damage, counts as the entire kill.
In Deathmatch, your Sentry and another Symmetra's Sentry can both be attacking someone, and as far as I can tell, who gets the kill is random. In a fair game, since both of you (if they walked into line of sight of both at the same time, obviously) did half the damage, you'd both get half the credit. Credit would be based on active participation in the kill- not who randomly gets rolled as the one who did the last single point of damage.
Likewise, constant assist notifications even when assists don't mean anything are an annoying audio feedback the mode could really benefit from dropping. Imagine your car telling you your passenger seat belts are unbuckled, even if nobody's sitting in them. Wouldn't that be annoying? Assist notifications feel the same way. The noise tells you something happened, but it didn't. Someone died, sure, but you didn't get a point for it, so what do you care? At least, it should have a different sound effect in death match- so you can use it as a "the enemy I was pursuing died, and I can change course" notification. But hearing the standard "You killed someone!" noise when you didn't do that is distracting, confusing, and annoying.
This is all especially true in Mystery Deathmatch which has potential to be one of the best modes in the game, but is marred by things like spawning as Mercy in a game full of heroes with heavy skill sets. At the very least, if the fire system were utilized towards scoring, you could get some points in simply by hitting the broad side of a roadhog or a d.va, before getting punched to death by doomfist.
And this means that solo-kills would still hold great value, because they would give the most points- discouraging going for chip-damage on almost-dead enemies currently engaged in a fight. You'd benefit from doing that, but not as much.
Another change I'd like to see considered is playing to a certain time, regardless of whether or not someone already won. 1st place has 19 kills. 2nd place has 10. Everyone else has 9 or less. But if 1st place gets 1 more kill, the entire match is over. I think the match should continue until 4 players get 20 kills (Or in this case, whatever counts as winning- I do not have any specific ideas for what should count as winning, but this is an example using the existing rules) or time runs out! That way, everyone else gets to continue to compete. This would also make games where someone is steamrolling- either via luck, or skill- less frustrating, because it means you still have a chance to rise up to top 4 even after they're done kicking everyone's ass. The players who win could either drop out like normal or continue to spectate.
What do you think?
Kills have always been the main metric in FFA, since the dawn of QW. So IMO that can't and shouldn't change. Race to the top.
Doing damage and not getting final blows is unlucky, but you do get rewarded for damage and eliminations, you get ult charge.
Assists should be a tiebreaker for the minor places, then deaths as the second tiebreaker. But really, playing aggressively and opportunistically to get final blows, choosing the right engagements and trying to stay active and hunting for fights you can win is really the essence of FFA and anything else would be a different game mode entirely.
Try 1 kill away within 2 feet of 3 guys mid battle.
Nothing is worse than being backfilled into a free for all deathmatch.
But if it is comp and you're only 3/6 because the others left it would never ever cancel the match unless it happens withing the first 5 minutes of the match, which never happens.
Logics of the system
I play dm alot. Last week this one dude kept joining game and leaving meibe like 15 times and we kept getting into a reinstating mode. It was nerve racking for me when i hit 19 kills since the game could drop at any second... luciky some other person joined and became our 7th....
M
It's the same as playing quick play or arcade and 4 players you are stomping leave at the same time and the game cancels.
Ugh... maybe its because its still on my mind, but considering I had a QM earlier today where some "lovely person" was pulling off the Sombra glitch on Busan before it gets patched out, the fact that my entire team just decided that we didn't have time for that and exodused knowing it denies them XP has made me a little bit more on the side of 'maybe theres a reason to call off a Quickplay match when that many people bail at once.'
That being said, unless it gets down to only having 3 people left, screw that idea happening in Deathmatch.
Yeah, there's potential reason for it in QP, though QP needs more people to leave as well. 2 people leaving in DM just... doesn't make sense why it reinstances.
it's especially frustrating when you're one win away from a box and you get the reinstancing two or three times in a row.
On the other hand, recently I was in a PUG in QP that was somehow in sync like almost no other QP game I've played. We were stomping the other team and it wasn't even like they were playing terribly. 4-man group on the other team left - game over.
I get why they do it, but it sucks sometimes.
it should just award you with the XP you would of got
Provided you're not the leaver. But it certainly is annoying to spend fifteen minutes or so of wasted time because two people couldn't be bothered to stick around for ten seconds.
The core difference is that Quick Play doesn't award you a point towards one of your 9 arcade wins.
And then you lose an endorsement level for it because it counts as leaving the match prematurely.
I think this has happened to me three times.
Or in competitive and you roll first point and then the enemy two stack leaves and the game cancels :(