Source
r/WA_guns•
ithrax

Any predictions on what happens in July when NICS stops running handgun sales and semi auto rifles are forced through local law enforcement?

I work for an FFL in Washington and my experience tells me that it's going to be a cluster fuck.

Probably 90% of handgun sales are currently run through NICS since most people have CPL's in order to bypass the Washington background check. Despite the low volume, most background checks done by local law enforcement take over 2 weeks (King and Pierce county sherrifs in particular).

As most of you know, only the smaller gun shops currently transfer without a response telling them to proceed, and several shops wait longer than required by law or generally refuse to transfer without a response.

I'm honestly concerned about how this is going to play out.

I love working the gun counter and interacting with people that share the same hobby. I actually feel fulfilled when I help a new shooter pick out their first gun and help guide them through the process. I could easily make 3x more money doing something else but I get so much satisfaction doing what I do that I can't imagine doing something else... However, I'm worried that I'm going to spend most of my time apologizing for my lack of ability to transfer firearms to people due to company policy and state law. I don't like having to tell people that they have to redo their paperwork because King county never responded and their 4473 expired. I know it's legal to transfer after 10 days but most companies, including mine refuse to do that.

Anyways, forgive my rambling. Does anyone have any insight into how this is going to play out?

Posted Dec 4, 2018, 5:25 AM UTC

1745
gtwooh•

Have no idea, but I don’t plan to buy any more rifles or handguns after the law goes into effect.

15
papaninja•

As much as I don’t want to be on their lists part of why they made these laws is to stop people from purchasing.

16
EbnoNoisefloor•

Bought all my pistols out of state and I plan on doing 80% lower for my next few pistols/ ar15. i go to other states for long guns that I can't build.

4
IAB21•

In that case aren't you concerned about the the FFL background checks you already had to go through to get the semi-autos, and the fact that the dealer has to keep records?

Or do you think that's not a concern in the same way like the state handgun registry?

But if you have CPL, aren't you in that state registry anyway?

1
pikaaaaachu•

Which will push more and more people to the black market.

2
RunCabbageRun•

Why? Why in the world would you give them what they already want? Am I missing something else other than the law will cause longer delays?

9
BataleonRider•

Gun registry and HIPAA waiver. Edit:Words

8
mynameis940•

594 already did that for pistols in 2014.

6
BataleonRider•

And? I'm not buying any gun, be it a pistol, rifle, shotgun or whatever, if it means going on a damned list and waiving my privacy rights. If that plays into the grabbers hands, fine. I guess they've out maneuvered me on that one. I was just pointing out that the law does a lot more than cause some delays.

3
IAB21•

It had a HIPAA waiver for pistols too?

1
gtwooh•

I’m not as I’ve been accelerating my future purchases ever since the initiative was announced. Mandatory waiting periods is the least of my concerns. The initiative does several things besides delays including having the DOL maintain a record of all rifle purchases, buyers waive medical privacy rights, adds a $25 fee to all purchases, and it allows annual checks on anyone who has purchased a pistol or semiautomatic assault rifle after the law takes effect to determine if they are still eligible to possess firearms.

3
deskburrito•

Same

1
DreadGrunt•

Non-594 compliant sales will skyrocket.

9
Maxtrt•

This is going to kill gun shows Nobody is going to go to a gun show and have to wait two weeks to get it.

4
watzizzname•

And that is one of the goals of 1639.

13
skiingredneck•

Except that had nothing to do with it....

-2
watzizzname•

Not directly no, but do you honestly believe that the people who support 1639 want people to keep going to gun shows or even have gun shows happen? The mandatory 10 day waiting period will effectively kill gun shows.

11
ilikelutefisk•

How do gun show sellers deal with non-CPL holders now? That seems like a big problem for the traveling show that came to Port Angeles when I lived there.

1
N7CombatWombat•

Probably an unpopular opinion, but the gun shows here, at least on the east side of the state, aren't worth going to anyway. Never really anything interesting, prices are out there and the shows are mostly full of a lot of... WWII aficionados. But yeah, this was obviously going to be a thing from the start with this initiative, it's one of the many reasons I voted no on it and every initiative that comes down the pipe, even if I don't like the gun shows here, that entire initiative is clown shoes. The frustrating thing is that sometimes these things have like a little nugget of a good idea, but then gets absolutely fucked when the bill is written. Like no one has any idea of the workload these generate alone, before you even get into the constitutional issues.

2
ilikelutefisk•

My prediction? If it holds, handgun sales will tank, especially if wait times take weeks. I assume this affects private sales, too, assuming the seller complies with I-594? Average people will start trying to buy from friends who will ignore the transfer law. For people who frequent this sub, 80% Glock (ugh) lowers will get really popular.

Honestly, I think this might hit retailers harder than 1639, since there's no good way around it. Selling people on stripped AR lowers and stripped 10/22 receivers is one thing, but I don't see 80% pistol frames being popular retail items.

3
old_wise•

Sorry for my ignorance, but can someone explain to me what exactly this change is all about? Is it not relating to 1649? Thank you.

1
ithraxOP•

Washington's CPL exempts people from NICS under federal law.

Washington requires a redundant background check on purchases despite federal law.

NICS is no longer going to process redundant checks as a courtesy for Washington.

1639 also goes into effect.

This means the already overburdened and underfunded police will have to process background checks even though they can't even keep up with the current level of checks they're required to run.

9
RunCabbageRun•

So the problem isn't NICS or even the police to be frank, it's WA stupid law(s) that requires a redundant background check.

7
ithraxOP•

Absolutely. Washington gun laws make zero sense... But I guess that's true of all gun laws.

3
skiingredneck•

WA is a hybird NICS state, meaning that rifles go to NICS, and pistols go to local law enforcement for background checks.

Since WA CPL's exempt people from the waiting period and instead of a "Approve" local police got a "notify" for pistol purchases for CPL holders, but the NICS check was still required.

Rather than have people still wait for local law to do the NICS check, the FBI has been allowing FFL's to do it directly for pistol purchases.

Then when the pistol notification showed up, local law re-ran the same check.

The FBI has said "No more of this, we're not running the same check twice. Everyone goes through local law enforcement for their NICS check for pistols."

This has nothing to do with any recent initiatives.

3
ithraxOP•

Exactly. Dealers would run a NICS check and send a PTA form to law enforcement that would subsequently run another redundant NICS check even though federal law doesn't require any NICS check on CPL holders.

1
RemarkableCode•

Is there a situation where someone could pass the nics check and fail the wa state enhanced check? Or am I mistaken. Would it actually be two background checks or it would it be the local pd processing the background check to washington state enhanced standards which also meets nics standards.

I would think that if you pass a nics check and fail washington state enhanced check (didn't have enough buttons buttoned on your shirt or 1 too many tattoos, etc). You could sue the city for violating your 2nd amendment rights and ride all the way to federal supreme court. Just a thought.

1
bacon_strips•

Don't forget forfeiting your HIPAA rights

5
ithraxOP•

That's been in effect for a while for handguns. Read the pistol transfer application. 1639 just adds the state as an authorized recipient.

5
pikaaaaachu•

Under federal law can you revoke consent? Would that force the state to revoke your license?

1
IAB21•

Do you have to forfeit your privacy rights to get CPL, or only to buy a pistol without CPL?

1
MrBangle•

I think you are wrong, a cpl is not a guaranteed take it home same day card. I have had a cpl for over 8 years and get delayed every time. Probably over 50 transactions, never once been able to take it home same day.

1
ithraxOP•

You're getting delayed by the FBI and NICS. I also get delayed every time, regardless of what I'm buying. Most people do not get delayed when their background is submitted through NICS. We are just unfortunate.

EVERYONE is going to be forced to wait for their purchases starting in July. We won't be able to run handgun purchases through NICS. We'll have to fax a form and wait for the police to respond. Some law enforcement agencies are unable to keep up with the current volume of purchases and it's about to get 10x worse.

This wouldn't be an issue if Washington law matched federal law. In some states, you simply show your CPL and leave with your gun. No NICS check required since a NICS check is required in order to be issued a CPL.

2
RemarkableCode•

I'm assuming the local dealer will call to verify the status of your cpl, right?

2
complacentguy•

It sounds like it isnt the atf or wa state instead it is a requirement of some section of the brady campaign.

The brady act allows a gun to be purchased same day as long as the cpl expires every 5 years and was issued after 2011. If the cpl is valid then any background check by a government agency is acceptable including nics.

https://lawcenter.giffords.org/background-checks-in-washington/

1
ithraxOP•

Read the Brady exemption section again. It says federal law exempts you from having to run another NICS check if a NICS check was run whenever you were issued your CPL. Washington law is more strict and requires redundant background checks on every purchase. The FBI is no longer going to allow Washington dealers to utilize NICS for handgun checks. This means Washington will have to process the background checks going forward. No more leaving with your gun on the same day.

2
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
JSpreader•

I predict nothing will happen and people will continue to buy guns.

-10