Baldur's Gate 3 preview
rockpapershotgun.com/2019/06/06/baldurs-gate-...
rockpapershotgun.comPosted Jun 6, 2019, 4:16 PM UTC
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rockpapershotgun.comLots of missable sidequests, multiplayer, working very closely with Wizards and co-shaping a tie-in module for tabletop ... these are things they did not have to include, but they are. I respect that. Good luck to them.
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Happy birthday to them, I don’t care, good luck!
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I don't understand the point of your reply.
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Whats the train on, good luck for their birthday i dont care!
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This has re-invigorated my will to live. I’m so hyped.
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Fucking Mind Flayers
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Vincke reassures us that “5th edition [D&D rules] is very different to 2nd Edition already, so it is much more accessible — this is also why it’s enjoying an increased popularity. So the videogame will be similar. We’re not going to compromise on depth.
This is a very worrying statement for me. Not only is it contradictory, but most games these days are extremely casual, and often require a significant amount of modding to get them up to par. I don't play PnP DnD anymore because of how ridiculously stripped down 5th is, and finding groups for prior editions is next to impossible where I live. I can't fault Wizards for what they did to 5th - it worked well to bring a wider audience into DnD, but for longtime players like me who want an incredibly indepth game, we have to stick to something like Shadowrun.
I love the Divinity series, and the fact that Larian is behind this game gives me lots of hope, but any mention of DnD 5th, or "Accessibility" puts me off. That leaves me with "Cautiously Optimistic". Been burned enough with games like Duke Nukem Forever, Diablo 3, and Civ 6. That leaves me at "Keep an eye on it, but no chance of a preorder".
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Is 5E really stripped down compared to the the 2E ruleset present in Baldur's Gate though? At their core both their systems are d20 based. Roll a modified d20 to hit a target number. Whether the Armor class is ascending or descending really doesn't matter mechanically. If anything the complexity jump came with 3rd edition and then continued in 3.5 and Pathfinder. I'm not trying to attack your viewpoint. I'm interested in a discussion because I never had the pleasure of running a 2E tabletop game.
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5e has more things than Baldur's Gate's 2e rule-set, by far. Remember, Baldur's Gate doesn't even have non-combat skills.
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I haven't ran a PnP in a long time as well, but I imagine the game will present most information clearly like Divinity, but the way you use that information and combine it in combat will allow for tons of flexibility and depth. So basically like most CRPGs, just centered around 5e. It also looks like Wizards is allowing them flexibility on things, which is great. I know practically nothing about 5e so I could be completely wrong.
Honestly, anything else would be disappointing. Imagine a CRPG that didn't have depth, what is the point? The complexity and confusing information has never held me back, I power through it, but I know a few people who gave up on Pillars because it took too long to learn the spells, etc.
Hopefully we get gameplay this month at E3.
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I feel like it's hard to make a normative judgment on 5e when you haven't actually played it...
Like, you're allowed to like 2e or 3.5e or whatever better, but don't disdain 5e just because it isn't "your" D&D. I probably would have never gotten into tabletop D&D were it not for 5e, and getting familiar with those rules allowed me to try out 3.5e/Pathfinder, Shadowrun, Call of Cthulhu and other games. Of all these systems, I still like 5e the best. A system's straightforward accessibility does not necessarily denote a lack of options. I have never felt a lack of options in my time playing 5e.
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DnD 5th did what it intended to do well - make it more accessible for new players like yourself, and that isn't inherently a bad thing.
For those of us years or decades in and balls-deep into PnP, 5th is ridiculously simplified, and it's a completely different perspective. We already knew a more complex system, and some of us are bored to tears with how simple 5th is. I personally can't play it because I can't get engaged with it. Shadowrun 5th is my level of complexity.
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Depth in a video game and ruleset complexity are really different things. All the maths and rolls are gonna be automatic, so whatever happens there doesn't really matter. In the end, if you compare Baldur's Gate 2 to more modern games like Divinity: Original Sin or even Dragon Age, in the end it really just boils down to using various skills/abilities and finding a good combination of items.
As someone who actually likes complicated rules, my main gripe with 5th is the lack of depth in skills. Other than that, I'm actually a fan of the streamlining, because I don't like *unnecessary* complexity, especially not in a video game where you don't have the flexibility to houserule. I mean, look at Pathfinder: Kingmaker. They introduced so much stuff from Pathfinder that they even included actual crap options and combinations, and you sort of require a mastery of the pen and paper to avoid it, or read up on lots of guides beforehand. Just no point in having things no one's going to want to use as is.
That's probably what they mean when they it's gonna be accessible - that you won't have to be an expert on the finer nuances of D&D 5e to play. But you can still have a depth in the game, with classes, abilities, spells, multiclassing, items, crafting, etc, to allow for more complicated builds.
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This was a really good read that hyped me much more than the trailer did. Where my Dawnbringers at??
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Turn based! DOS2 easily has my favorite rpg combat. You have to pause constantly in the real time combat games anyway. I would've enjoyed the infinity engine games and their spiritual successors much more if they had been turn based. Ya know, like actual dnd is.
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I prefer real time with pause because I don't like having to have a 15 minute turn-based battle with trash mobs far below my level. In real time I can just steamroll them in seconds and not have to wait for them to take a turn.
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I'd rather have every fight be at least a little challenging. If the game has frequent tedious encounters that seems like a design flaw to me.
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You are bound to meet animals, goblins and orcs on your adventure. Level scaling is the worst invention of the modern eta so RTWP is the best system.
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I like the idea of anything being dangerous if you're not prepared. That was something I loved about IWD2. Goblin? Don't make me laugh. Worg? Alright, now we're getting somewhere. Goblin riding a worg?! Heeeeeeeell yeah!
It would be hard for me to imagine a BG without scripts, but we'll see what we get. The dev seems to be saying all the right things RE: feedback so let's see if the community can make up its mind.
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You shouldn't ever have that problem though. Either the game is well designed and you don't have those fights much at all, or if you are overleveled, you should be able to end the fight in 1-2 turns. Sounds like a group comp/strategy issue.
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Not really. By the end of dos2 I could one or two shot the majority of enemies but you'd still get bogged down in lengthy fights as the enemy runs all over the place or aren't grouped enough for aoes. In real time that 5 turn battle would take seconds.
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On one hand, 5th ed.
On the other hand, the motherfucking Spelljammer influence confirmed.
Going to be cautiously optimistic, at least.
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No mention of mod support-editor. Interesting.
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Not something you'd always cover in the very first mention of a game, ever.
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They did with DOS and DOS2.
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They weren't working with one of the most popular franchises in history back then.
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Wizards really enjoyed it and GM mode in OS2. Be stupid of them to miss a trick doing it for D&D and selling DLC content and tie-ins
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They did? When did they say that?
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Very nice read.
It also seems big chances it is based on 5E .
11th paragraphs reads:
"He promises “a whole bunch of new systems” but won’t name them, pointing us to the 5th edition D&D rulebook for inspiration.
It has to be based on 5E. That's a Wizards policy.
I'm honestly more concerned with how this will probably be turned based.
Turn-based would be so sad.
I agree, I hope they stick to Real time with pause.
pfft, what nonsense. You could make a fabulous RPG either way.
That is true. But we're talking about making a great Baldur's Gate here. Outside of the setting being in the same rough geographic location, what really connects these games enough to warrant calling it Baldur's Gate III outside of getting people like us to buy it? You don't call something Baldur's Gate III, and expect people to not want the familiar. If the goal was to just make a great, or fabulous RPG, instead of a ton of money, they would have left the Sword Coast. the Realms are massive. It's been around longer than I've been alive. We've hardly seen any of it. The only reason to ignore those places for a place like Baldur's Gate is because they want more of the same. The same makes money, after all.
Like 4/5 of my all time favorite games are turn-based.
It would still be sad for it to happen to a franchise which has been real-time since its inception. Turn-based goes great with expansive large-scale games in the strategy and 4X category, it's not at all necessary here.
If they're going to make it turned based, they should just make D:OS3 instead.
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Then we can get Baldur's Gate 1: Enhanced Enhanced edition, using Baldur's Gate 3's D&D5 engine!
Omg. I know it's heresy but I don't really like AD&D, I loved NWN2's 3.5 with Kaedrin's class pack... BGI&II with non-AD&D D&D would be so amazing... BG3 will presumably come with a DM mode anyway, like DOS2 and maybe somebody will be able to mod it to play through BGI&II.
This. I have tried getting into both D:OS 1 & 2 but I just can't get past how much combat feels like playing a board game.
Walking up to someone, hitting them, and then watching 5 other allies and enemies take their turns before your target even reacts is immersion-breaking as hell. It would be great if Larian could at least offer a RTwP option for those of us who actually liked the gameplay of the originals — Obsidian did it for turn-based players, so maybe there's hope.
Well really it depends on taste, I personally dislike RTS game combat, it feels like a mess to me and I don't feel in total control of situation. It's like watching someone else play the game or constantly pause every couple of second.
I will play either way, because I usually play crpg for their story not the gameplay.
My big hope is that, since canonically one round of combat encompasses 6 seconds real time, that a turn would involve each character planning their move, and the AI reacting accordingly. Then, when each character has their move planned, the player hits "execute", and when see each characters' actions animated and play out simultaneously over a six second period. Then repeat.
I have no idea if this would be possible, and it almost certainly won't be what happens, but that's my ideal scenario. I think it (in addition to an "auto-resolve" function) could help remediate the time-consumption concern so many here have with turn-based combat.
That would be an excellent compromise system. My main issue with TB is the way it breaks immersion and makes combat feel non-reactive and unrealistic (mainly by not allowing characters to react to most enemy actions once they're in motion). Turns are taken the same way in PnP, but players generally understand that actions are being taken roughly simultaneously and the DM's narration can make the combat feel fluid and dynamic. It's much harder to convey that through a visual medium - never really liked figurines for the same reason.
I actually liked DOS1 combat ...it was the world and story that annoyed me more than the mechanics I must say
They cannot do that to us!
They can, and they probably will.
I'm going to be happy either way.
My thought would be a per-character 'panel' of toggle-switch style controls for various 'reactions' and 'bonus action' type things. So if you activate 'Dual Weapon Fighting' you automatically make a second attack if you're equipped properly and the triggering conditions are met.
In other cases (like Opportunity Attacks) you'll take the first one per 'round' that's available to a character. Players trying to micromanage can disable the feature if they're expecting a bunch of weak monsters to act, then turn it on right before the tougher monster does.
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I would be extremely surprised to see anything new D&D based that doesn't use 5e without a good reason. EEs are one thing, and SoD was technically an expansion, but new game, new rules.
https://www.gameinformer.com/e3-2019/2019/06/06/baldurs-gate-iii-is-based-on-dungeons-dragons-fifth-edition