Source
r/OCPoetry•
Geongus

Vines

Feedback Received!

This will be my first post here! I'm hoping for any type of reception. I think my writing is best read aloud.

​

6/8/2019

Vines hurled forward,

some unwind

Letting loose what once they held so dear

The semblance of some dead tree

For they could only look

What they hung from

and grew on

then died on

People stopped and tilted their heads I think

Looking for the tree

Standing on eons of brown wire.

But can I blame them?

For when the season passes through

Only then does a breeze shake out the dead leaves

And then do we finally notice?

I can’t blame them. They were looking for some dead tree that everything hung from and had disregarded all the vines and branches and stilted willows and hungering skinny tall pines that shook furiously in wind and never seemed to break all for some boring old dead tree.

Well they are like that now, although they may not look it

The caved out underbelly of a fell wood

The termite holes, yellow and brittle

Sour in my mind

The leaves crushed to dust by wind and rain and foot and snow and thrown before you no different than the dirt from which everything grows.

Squatting in it you stand before what you think is a monument you carefully read

Able to discern some distinguishing details

It wouldn't be so hard if you knew how to look

But you caught, comparing

The painted picture to the easel

Or worse, it was painted to exhibit the frame that held it

It shows great promise

Is what all those tilted heads would be saying

But I think they only see the bark

Like an echo

Could I take great pains to remind them

The time that has past.

Is it more an art that the wood has kept its form or that the hundreds of thousands of dead vines that climbed up it and around it and strangled it and winded now lay

Unwound

In a pile

Like an upturned mass grave.

You wouldn’t pay mind to them only that they are a nuisance to step around

But I tell you all great things are this.

None are the tree, and it is dead for a reason.

We seek to build in an image we cannot

Just as a dog will be a dog

A man cannot be god.

And so you look at all I have done and say these are weeds! Well did you think a tree would sprout when you planted, viciously, in these shifting grounds? A plant stays in one place but this soil no more familiar than words that judge. Maybe to be a weed is all our place. But things bad and good are of a human make.

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Posted Aug 6, 2019, 5:42 AM UTC · edited

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[deleted]•

Immediately when I see this post I see how long it is, not that a poem can't be long but I started to question it. Could this fit more as a short story? One thing is that there's a narration but I can't identify characters or a progression. I think you need to show rather than tell me directly what you are seeing or directly be pointing out the message.

I think it would help if there were stanzas, although I myself don't know how to create that affect here. :l There's also a problem in that some lines have been combined to form what seems to be small paragraphs.

I think the piece if kept as a poem needs to be condensed. There are many instances were an idea is repeated several times. This for example: "They were looking for some dead tree that everything hung from and had disregarded all the vines and branches and stilted willows and hungering skinny tall pines that shook furiously in wind and never seemed to break all for some boring old dead tree" could be condensed. Instead of repeating that they were in the area and searching, just describe the tree in cut the narration. Like 'branches and vines now made a dead tree' (or whatever is it you're conveying there), 'stilted willows and skinny tall pines shook furiously in the wind'.

I think you're a good writer and you can vividly describe things. I think explore more of the elements that can make a poem and use that to make your piece more effective. Still, there's a richness in your words and I liked the concept.

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GeongusOP•

Beyond stylistic restructuring, what do you think this is about? The narration is me, I am the character, as it is my poem. The repetition I use is just for dramatic affect, but do you think it would be easier to read / flow if the paragraph were formatted into stanzas?

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summercloud5•

Welcome and congrats on this being your first post!

Firstly, I think it's a great idea to have a recorded date for each of your poem.

Second, you're correct. It's best read aloud by the reader. Typically either reading slowly or reading aloud (which forces you to slow down and think more) can make a poem more impactful.

Third, it's interesting the way the poem's constructed. It switches back and forth between several short lines and long, descriptive sentences. It departs from what most would normally see in a poem. It's good to be creative like this. But I found it harder to read this way due to the complexity of the poem. I had to constantly go back and reread and ran into the challenge that it's not as smooth trying to understand by reading backwards as it would be solely forward, due to the unusual structure.

Fourth, there's not much of a lyrical rhythm to it. It's fine either way (lyrical or not lyrical), just wanted to point out that making words sound lyrical can attract more readers sometimes. Again, no need to change if you prefer things this way: a serious parable style. Everyone has their own style.

Fifth, the tone comes across as a bit of an attack at the reader. Maybe modify the tone to being slightly softer, less admonishing.

You put forth good effort in this. I enjoy a good challenge every now and then. Thanks for that!

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GeongusOP•

Something that I carry with my poetry is lecture advice I received from a teacher: art isn't anything unless it makes you feel something.

Your fifth point; I'm not sure how you got there. I'm not trying to wag my finger at anyone, in fact, I think I'm trying to share my feelings on something. I would really like to know what you think this is about. If the effort to deconstruct this is too cryptic or arduous I understand, and I would love to tell you why I spent so much time putting this together. But I don't want to do that unless you ask. Poetry is largely interpretive, and so any gray area you find is a call upon you to find meaning.

For your first and second point, thank you.

Number three: I just read my poem backwards and you're right, it doesn't make as much sense. It never occurred to me to do that, so thank you! You've given me more ways to analyze and feel out poetry. Your comment suggests challenge, confusion, and strangeness. Maybe that is a deterrent since you don't know me at all due to the anonymity, but pretend there is a meaning to extract here and for the sake of argument it matters.

Number four: I think conceptualizing poetry often entails what you said. I have poems that read like that, and I hope to share them here at a later date. Largely, though, I am just writing in prose which is my favorite way to write as form challenges me in other ways that I felt unneeded in something already so charged.

Also, the stanzas, really the ones people might think of as paragraphs are made that way intentionally. The brevity or long winded length of each stanza is done so intentionally. Some things are meant to be blunt and simple and others should make you feel tired and out of breath. If it's annoying, then there's my criticism on that approach.

Thank you for taking the time to write out everything! I hope you'll respond and we can have some sort of dialogue.

-Elliot

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summercloud5•

Thank you for taking the time to write out everything! I hope you'll respond and we can have some sort of dialogue.

You're welcome! In fact, I typed up my earlier response when I was very tired and incorrectly evaluated your poem. I take that back now about the fifth point. My apologies.

I read your poem more slowly and thoroughly this time. It's a pretty good poem, although the complexity requires a lot of patience and study to figure out. But I think I get what you're trying to state.

My take on this: it's about how we judge each other and attempt to create our own distorted views of each other (e.g., the vines, the branches) believing it's the real tree (the dead tree) when it's not truly the tree itself.

In simpler words, we take what we witness/see/hear/imagine regarding the other individual and use the vines to create a false image of the individual (tree).

Which fits in exactly where you state:

None are the tree, and it is dead for a reason.
We seek to build in an image we cannot

And correlates very nicely with where you state:

A man cannot be god.

In other words, man (and woman) often tries to play god in perceiving others, but cannot be god (seeing/knowing all about the other individual). Did I get this correct?

Obviously it takes real effort to really appreciate the poem. Now that I think about the structure once again, I think it's fine the way it is. It's unique in its own way, making for a more satisfying read once the poem is figured out.

Clearly most individuals wouldn't have the time or patience nowadays to figure out what a complex piece of work is really trying to say. It's a sign of the times, in a way. But fortunately, I know myself pretty well and am always watching out for any miscalculations I make regarding others, so I'm glad I caught where I went wrong in judging your poem's purpose (and perhaps you, as well). Interestingly, what I did erroneously proves your point in this poem (assuming I evaluated correctly what the poem is about).

If the effort to deconstruct this is too cryptic or arduous I understand, and I would love to tell you why I spent so much time putting this together. But I don't want to do that unless you ask. Poetry is largely interpretive, and so any gray area you find is a call upon you to find meaning.

I second that. I have done my part in deconstructing your poem. Let me know if I am correct, and what it's really about. Do share why you spent so much time putting it together. I'm genuinely curious. Cheers.

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GeongusOP•

Hey thanks! I understand, I did post this late at night (EST) so probably next time I post I'll do it earlier in the day. I think there's a lot of ways to go about poetry, for me I enjoy prose. A lot of people enjoy what you were talking about rhythmic and lyrical stanzas that sync up to some form a of pattern. Your follow up has really made me feel a lot better about posting this. Regardless, next time I share something I'll probably pick something out of my archive that's a little shorter and sweeter for the contemporary audience.

You're right though, this poem is long winded and hard to read in just a sitting. I spent three months on it, editing it on and off to give you an idea of why it matters so much to me. It's about judgement and expectations for me, and god is the ultimate judge in a Judeo-Christian sense. I take a lot of inspiration from poets like William Blake and Rilke who also write with classical symbolism (check them out if you haven't, I have many recommendations!)

To make a long story short, the poem is about living not up to expectations but against them. People in your life will try to linearly categorize your life for you based on societal and their own expectations. I don't think those things matter and you know that hinting at my tone in the poem. When people project their expectations on you and expect you to live up to them they are already setting up the milestones in your life. They are trying to structure it for you, and when they pay attention to you they're not looking at the painting that is your life they are looking at the frame that they have created.

You should do things because you want to not because you feel that you have to. The milestones will come regardless of what path you choose, and in my opinion they will be much more interesting and meaningful if you are the one trying to find them instead of someone else giving them to you. The tree is meant to represent the expectations, the vines are us crawling on our bellies imitating all sorts of things that vines normally climb on and wrap around. The painting, frame, easel all are metaphorical ways of elaborating on my previous rant. The final topic of dogs being dogs and god just outlines that in a spiritual sense nobody has anything over you. In the Christian bible, god is the ultimate judge and that is what matters. So if god is omnipotent, he represents the conscious and the soul. Are you OK with the way you lived your life? Then you don't need to pay attention to everyone pretending to be him with what they say.

I hope that clears a lot up, I could honestly write several more paragraphs on this but who wants that? Thank you so much for your time and this conversation. It's the conversation I've been looking to have about this poem to make sure it's not something awful but just art - in that it made you feel a certain way and take a meaning away from it. All good art is that, and trust me, good isn't good in the sense you might think it is.

I'll be following you and hope to give you even a fragment of the attention you gave me in the hopes that you'll benefit from it!

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summercloud5•

Very concisely explained. Yes that clears a lot up.

This poem took you three months of editing, on and off? Very impressive.

You know how they say, "Rome wasn't built in a day." If it takes time to create something unique that has a very important message contained within, then by all means take your time.

You want to maximize the impact on the audience.

Regarding the classical poets and classical symbolism, I used to read a lot of their works (but not the authors you mention). Some of classical symbolism is derived from mythology, such as "ferry" being a symbolism for death. Eventually I become more interested in those who have very distinct poetry styles compared to the classical poets, such as J.R.R. Tolkien (author of Lord of the Rings). Check out The Lays of Beleriand and you'll see some of the most exciting prose poetry this world has ever known. Given that you enjoy prose, you should check into that book. Especially the part about Beren and Luthien, who are the Romeo and Juliet equivalent of Middle-Earth.

Prose poetry is what I typically prefer. So it's great that you enjoy writing prose, because I enjoy reading and writing prose poetry. Not sure my prose poetry is that great.

There are many individuals attempting to emulate the classical poets, but not very many who attempt to create myths and emulate the story-telling poetry you'd find in The Iliad (or the aforementioned The Lays of Beleriand).

Sure, follow me and I look forward to your comments. In return, I'll follow you and have added you as a friend.

Your poem's message is one well worth understanding. I, who am often hard on myself although I'm well aware of how individual and societal expectations can be irrational, can certainly benefit from it. So thank you for posting!

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