Let’s break the false link between building muscle and becoming less feminine.
gubernatrix.co.uk/2010/07/femininity-and-muscle/Posted Jul 15, 2010, 4:43 PM UTC
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gubernatrix.co.uk
I dated a girl who was stronger than me (she was on a rowing team). There's something sexy about someone who can lift you off your feet when she pushes you against a wall to kiss you. Or is that just me?
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Hehe, where can I find more guys like you?
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I don't know about more guys like me, but I know where you can find exactly one guy like me :P
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Why hello there.
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Hello :)
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Here!
Is it wrong to use reddit to lech for strong women?
Edit: also, how YOU doin.
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If it's wrong, I don't wanna be right :P
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Tech schools. :P. Or conversely, r/hardbodies.
I'm dating someone who is significantly stronger than me, and I love it. Except that she did crew and rock climbing and can leg press a small car and she kicks in her sleep. Other than waking up in the middle of the night with bruised legs, it's wonderful.
Also, see my other comment in this thread. :x
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Plenty of guys like fit girls. I have no problems with my partner being stronger than myself. My girlfriend loves when Im drunk and tired, its the only time she can pin me down.
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:) When I was dating my (now-ex-)husband, he wanted to go to the gym with me. At the time, I was lifting frequently and heavy and didn't want to for fear of making him look bad. But, he insisted that he wanted me to show him how to lift. I agreed, and felt bad because he was working with lighter weights than me (I was still concerned about that male ego, ya know?). Apparently, as he told me later, he found it to be a turn-on that I could lift more than he could.
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now-ex-
Subtle ;P
(please don't hurt me)
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That is... unspeakably hot. How can I be you?
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Spend the duration of a party entirely oblivious to the fact that a girl likes you until she makes the first move when you go to hug her goodbye... on second thoughts maybe that's not good advice.
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That's just you, Nancy.
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My sister is a rower, and a short one too. She is the buffest chick I know.
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In this thread: guys who are very opinionated about how girls should work out.
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I'd prefer that to guys who are very opinionated about what I should think.
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In reddit: very opinionated people
FTFY
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I think that women lifting weights is a great idea for women who want to get in shape. The thing about some of the folks over in r/fitness/, though, is that they seem to think that the ONLY way to be healthy and fit is this way. Some even suggest that you shouldn't do any cardio - you should only do heavy lifting. I think that's taking things a little far. Anyone who says that there is ONLY ONE WAY for anything is suspicious in my eyes.
So while I'm 100% for women lifting heavy weights (assuming that they enjoy it), I'm often turned off by the attitudes of the folks who are pushing for it.
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Most of the ones talking about 100% lifting and 0 cardio are actively trying to build muscles. It's all a question of what you are trying to achieve.
General good health and fitness: Cardio and Strength.
Body Building: Strength only, cardio would be counter productive.
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I believe weight training can also help fight off bone density loss. Good for us ladies who all start peaking in our bone mass by around age 30.
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Well, there are a few outliers who say basically "Heaving lifting is mathematically the best way to lose fat and inches, and therefore anyone who does any other kind of exercise is merely deluding themselves when they think they're doing good". There are very few who take it to that extreme, though.
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I've never read that and I post mostly in r/fitness. Link?
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The only people over at r/fitness/ I have seen suggest drop cardio would be crossfitters. But that's not really what they mean, they mean combine weight lifting and cardio into one.
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I'll have to agree about r/fitness.
Everyone thinks the end goal is to be cut with 3% body fat.
I don't want to look like that!
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Wouldn't 3% body fat on a woman be...um, death? I guess it is possible, I've just never seen it. What is the average for a female body builder? I would assume they would be really low, but 3%?
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Average for a female athlete is ~17%, so yeah 3% would be death.
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3% on anyone is death. Men need at least 6% and women need around 16% minimum IIRC.
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Wikipedia lists essential fat levels for men at 1-3%, so some men could be fine with so little fat (of course, it's hard to measure fat levels to that level of accuracy).
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I would assume they would be really low, but 3%?
Facepalm.
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Hey, that's why I asked. I know on a normal woman, even athletic, it is around 18%. I just didn't know if there was a subset of the human population that actually pull it off.
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I love athletic girls. I would probably feel insecure/inadequate if my GF had more muscles than I do, but fortunately, male hormones put me at a huge advantage.
Seriously, I'd bet that most of guys who're grossed by athletic girls are under-muscled and in poor physical shape, and feel threatened by a girl more physically able than themselves.
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Some guys like curvy women. Some guys like toned women. It's all about preference. I've never seen a guy grossed out by athletic women. I am discounting the female body builders who go a bit crazy.
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Yes! Breaking that link will also mean unmuscled men like myself are not perceived as being less masculine!
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I think women with muscle tone are HOT. This article inspired me to do some pushups.
Sexy arms, yeah! Oooh, and sexy abs...I love defined abs (though I'm probably always going to be a bit 'softer' abdominally unless I take up hard-core running or something - I've always had some pudge, though I'm fairly skinny).
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I don't know why nobody is saying the obvious: fit girls (much like fit guys, I imagine) are way better in bed. :x
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No average woman should be reluctant of going to the gym to acquire muscle mass, but when you take it all the way up to a bodybuilder level then yes the link between building muscle and becoming less feminine exists. All in moderation.
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May I suggest this awesome website on weightlifting for women.
Love this website. Weightlifting and women. Great workouts, great advice and funnnny. I love weight lifting...do not fear the free weights!
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I wish I had more upvotes for this. That site is a major reason that I got into weight lifting in the first place. Getting fit is one of the best things I have ever done for myself. Anyone who thinks that they can't do it is absolutely wrong.
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Same here. In high school I stumbleuponed this site and read it all night. The following week I took my hard earned Taco Bell money and bought a small set of free weights to slowly build up my strength. I stopped for a while when I got sick in college but I'm at it again. I always tell my friends who are trying to lose weight or get in shape DO NOT FEAR THE FREE WEIGHTS. Congrats on getting fit and not fearing the free weights!
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My trainer is a female body builder. Sometime this weekend we're gonna go buy shoes and get manicures together. She squeals when she sees things with sparkly Swarovski crystals on them. So, whatever.
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I'm still having a hard time understanding the deck of cards thing. I would think that a Jack would be 11 reps, not 10. And how is an ace 16 reps?
Nevertheless, if I had that kettle weight, I would do this whole thing. What's a good substitute in the meantime?
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Maybe a sack of sugar or flour. But that kettlebell in the video is probably about 45 pounds.
I would not suggest getting a towel and putting a barbell on it. Too dangerous.
Kettlebells are a great investment. Just buy the real ones and not the ones made in the U.S.A.
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I did one today for the first time in forever and it kicked my ass. The one that I learned awhile back and still use is Jack, Queen, King, and Ace were all 20 reps, otherwise the rep count is just the number on the card.
Don't get hung up on the exact four exercises she did in the video (e.g., I do squats, cleans, push-ups, and crunches), just find four exercises that together work each big muscle group.
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The comment about strength training and body image/eating disorders resonated with me. I have never felt better about my body than when I knew it could lift heavy things and deliver a roundhouse kick to someone's chest.
Free weights ftw.
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Yes. Totally agree. The so called toned look comes from building up the major muscles with low rep/high weight, not a ton of reps with low weight. The major muscles are what give your body it's form. Just lift ladies. You won't get big like a man and certainly won't look like a female bodybuilder unless you are seriously in training and eating your body weight in protien everyday.
You have to lift to really form muscle that would change your body and get the toned beach body look. Muscle also burns more fat just by being there.
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As a guy who hates the waify 'ideal' that the media all seems to want to push:
Yes, please.
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I have no problem with fit women, but I think super muscular is unattractive IMO. It's the same for men though, I'm pretty sure women find this generally better than this.
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Well that's the point of the article- if she doesn't stick a needle full of steriods in her ass on a regular basis and spend hours upon hours in the gym, no woman is ever going to look like your second female example. Believe me, I spend hours every week lifting heavy stuff and no one would accuse me of having a masculine physique. I honestly wish I could gain muscle with ease but, as a healthy woman, I just don't have enough testosterone to do that. Instead I have to bust my ass in the gym for small gains while the men around me can work half as hard as me and see 4x the muscle growth. It's insulting to my hard work when other women assume that they are going to become muscled beasts if they lift anything heavier than 10 lbs.
I believe that every woman should lift weights for health reasons, even if she doesn't want to change the way her body looks. Proper strength training increases bone density, boosts metabolism, strengthens the heart and lungs, pumps your body full of feel-good endorphins, and helps prevent injuries during other activities.
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Absolutely. I was stating that only when you reach the bodybuilder muscle does the femininity you posses begin to wane (which makes sense since to do that you have to inject things that PHYSICALLY start making you a man).
I thought this article was odd personally though, I or anyone I've met has never negatively critiqued females with muscles. To everyone I've been with the verdict seemed to be that it was actually INCREDIBLY attractive, except in rare cases like the one I mentioned earlier where the woman goes all she-hulk (it's about as attractive as the male bodybuilders).
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For the WHOLE DECK!?! Wow, that's impressive. I might be able to do a full house.
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Interesting.
I was impressed that she used a kettle bell of that size properly. ;)
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Devil's advocate: (relatively) large, defined muscles are more common in men in current society, so increased muscle definition in a woman tends to a more masculine appearance. This article seems more of a "let's reclaim muscles for us girls/as being feminine!" sort of thing. Which is perfectly fine, as long as there is some recognition that musculature actually is more pronounced in men, and so it is realistic to consider it a more masculine trait.
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Women have a lot harder of a time building muscle, largely because their bodies don't produce steroids naturally, so don't avoid working out in fear of becoming huge and muscular, as you're going to gain muscle a lot slower than men, and you'll eventually hit a plateau where its very difficult to gain more without going crazy with supplements or steroids
At the risk of sounding sexist: dont worry, you cant get that huge naturally because you're a woman.
Absolutely, female body builders(and male for that matter) have to spend hours a day in the gym while pumping themselves full of steroids and hormones to look like that all while eating 4000-8000 calories a day. And even after the muscle is built they have to continue working out and eating an insane amount to just to maintain it. Bulging muscles don't happen by accident.
To be fair, there are natural female bodybuilders. But you absolutely do not have to worry about this happening to you by accident. Those women are exceptionally dedicated and work very, very hard.
...and most are gorgeous not mutant muscle steroid gals.
Exactly, its really hard to fight the (seemingly prevalent) assumption that women shouldn't lift heavy weights.
Every time I try to explain that lifting 2lb pink dumbells isn't really that productive whatever your goals people look at me and say "but I don't wanna be huge." Getting big isn't easy. Like you say, it won't happen by accident.
Though most of this is because of incompetent personal trainers who see that their client is female and assume that know their goals and how best to achieve them.
Case and point Michael Phelps, That's pretty much as far as you can go without heavy supplements or steroids. Phelps reportedly burns through 12000 calories a day while training. He is muscular, but not to the point of a body builder.
Oh, that's silly. You can get much bigger if you follow a weight training program (as a male). Phelps looks the way he does because his workout is swimming. If he was a natural powerlifter, he'd look totally different.
Exactly, with the amount of cardio and endurance work he is putting in he probably needs to eat that much to avoid gaining weight.
|case in point
fixed that for you.
on a less douchey note, swimming is generally a great way to exercise that will not result in visibly toned muscles for most people.
You guys are so awesome! What would I do without you?!
I tell this to women all the time, they mention that they want to lose weight and I say the best way to to that is to build some muscle and then they reply with "but I don't want to look manly". What I want to say in reply to that is that they'll never look manly, but even if you did, looking manly is a helluva lot better than looking fat. I've dated women that are kind of "manly" but I've never dated a fatty. Fat is a huge turn off for me.
Just my two cents but wow, that certainly is a very positive comment about bodies. In the sidebar for this subreddit is a statement about 'hateful or disrespectful commentary'. I personally love being called a 'fatty'. In my humble opinion - whether you're masculine or feminine, fat or thin, muscular or not; Nobody should have to feel badly about their bodies based on somebody on the internet making broad sweeping statements about what is "helluva lot better than looking fat". I don't think fat is the worst thing you can be. Disrespectful of others is, though.
While it might be generally inappropriate to call people "fatty"s, this is a discussion about appearance, so it's not an out of place comment. The fact that afungi is absolutely correct on, even if he said it a bit tactlessly, is that in general fat is a far worse turn off to men than "looking manly" (which, as this article points out, is not what usually happens when a woman builds muscle). It's not a comment about hating fat people, it's about what people find sexually attractive.
I just have to chime in here in favor of the basic supposition behind afungi's comment (usually I just lurk around these parts, but every so often a male perspective is helpful). Some of those women in the linked article are quite physically attractive to me. The one in red at the top, the American Gladiator, the bodybuilder in pink, and the sprinter at the bottom are all damn hot. That bodybuilder is in the top 0.1% of women I see in real life in terms of how "built" she is and yet I still feel strongly attracted to her.
Meanwhile, there's at least 25% of women I see in public that I don't feel attracted to at all. Know why? Because they're overweight. Fat is not attractive. Between fit and fat I know which one I'll pick any day.
I, for one, agree!
One should only feel bad about one's appearance if it is the result of bad eating habits and laziness!
Why should I feel bad about my appearance just because I'm lazy and have bad habits? Does this shame still apply if I'm not overweight or dangerously underweight? My appearance is still a result of my habits.
Honest question: Is there such thing as 'natural obesity'? Does anyone have a 'natural weight' that is really excessive? I mean, I'm not talking about 'curvy' or 'heavyset', I mean obviously overweight--excessive body fat. Nothing to do with pounds or BMI or whatever, just the presence of lots and lots of adipose tissue. When is obesity not caused by bad eating habits and lack of exercise?
You have to admit though, being fat is pretty bad. Nobody likes fat people, especially fat women.
Hmm well, I'm fat and I like myself.. and my friends like myself.. and my boyfriend likes myself... oh, and I like my thin friends and my fat friends. So I don't know where you're getting the statistic that 'nobody likes fat people/fat women don't like fat women'. Unless you can pull up something that proves that that isn't FOX or CNN, pffttttttt.
Nobody likes fat women? My fiance would certainly disagree.
That's very much a personal preference of yours. Lots of people find fat women attractive, and lots somehow find muscular women unattractive even if their shape is still very feminine.
Lots? Really? Are we talking 20% of the population? 30%? Seriously though, if you asked a random sampling of men what kind of women the preferred I would suspect that the majority, 60% or more would say that they prefer women who are more in shape.
Yeah, lots, despite the distortions caused by our near-constant exposure to unusually and increasingly thin celebrities held up as the ideal. How many of those randomly chosen people do you think would say they prefer muscular women?
It's pretty dependent on the particular woman, how she carries her shape, and who's judging it, too. Someone who might say they prefer slim/athletic-looking women could still be more attracted to one specific fat woman.
Women produce testosterone by...
Exercising.
they produce testosterone all the time,but diet and activities, age , genetics can change the quantity
For a vast majority of women, this is true. However, some women do have a significant amount of testosterone naturally, which causes them to gain muscle much more quickly and easily than would be expected based on their gender. Yes, I'm speaking from personal experience.
I'm not saying this is a reason that women should be discouraged from using free weights, by any means - just wanted to point out that it's not impossible.
Yeah. Every time this comes up, I want to point out that it's unlikely, not impossible, even without a huge amount of effort. I think (naturally) large muscles look great on women, but not everyone does, and your aesthetic preferences don't determine your body's reactions.
I gain muscle more easily than most women too, which I attribute to higher testosterone, but I actually feel fortunate in that respect. I can tone up with relatively little effort, and I still look far from "manly." I love being strong and feminine at the same time.
Men vary in the way their bodies build muscle, so of course women do too. Since variation in one's workout is a good idea anyway, women who are concerned about this can try lifting in a certain way for a while, evaluate the results, and then make modifications based on how their body responds.
females actually do produce steroids naturally, just a lot lower than males do, because testicles produce a lot of tostesterone, but on women only the brain produces it in pretty low quantities, and besides muscle grow is controlled by the grow hormone
Its actually the adrenal glands that produce most of the testosterone in women, just like they produce estrogen and other female hormones in men
4 glands vs 2 glands are responsible for 90% of secondary sex characteristics.
I think I am going to become your fan now
an estrogen is a steroid ffs
I meant steroids in the vernacular - hormones that increase muscle mass, Anabolic Steroids