Source
r/ottawa•
Prometheus188

The 3 week parallel bus service for LRT is a horrible idea. It's giving everyone a bad first impression of the new LRT + connecting bus system.

The rationale behind it is admirable, an insurance policy in case the LRT breaks down majorly during the opening weeks. But here's the thing, the whole point of LRT is to eliminate buses downtown, and to have buses connect at the ends of the line + hurdman mostly. This solves the 2 major problems with the old buses.

1: Super long routes like the 45 km route 95 that constantly get delayed because of how long it is. Small delays add up. Delays in Orleans and downtown will affect your bus from Algonquin to Barrhaven.

2: Buses get stuck in traffic downtown, causing massive delays across the city. A bus stuck in downtown will delay your bus from Blair to Orleans.

LRT solves both of these because LRT is separated from traffic, and breaks up routes on all sides of the line. The 45 km 95 becomes an 11 km route 39 (34 km shorter) and a 20 km route 75 (25 km shorter). This is happening with all the major buses. Shorter, more frequent buses that are separated from traffic. This is the major advantage of the LRT system with respect to the new bus network.

Here's where OC Transpo fucked up. We don't have that system yet. We have a brand new beautiful LRT, with the old shitty bus system. We don't have any of those benefits yet. Buses still get delayed through downtown, causing ripple effects of delays across the city.

Here's a specific example. You take the LRT from Parliament to Blair. You're expecting the 95 to Orleans to be on time, but it isn't. Because it's stuck in downtown traffic, and when it shows up it'll be half full already. With the new system, the 95 (39) starts at Blair, so it's empty and always on time. This is why the parallel bus service is really a disservice. These issues are amplified at Tunney's, because of the parallel bus service.

This is especially horrible because everyone's first impression i that the combined LRT + bus system is a bad one. Look at all the complaints about Tunney's Pasture and Blair being a shitshow. It is a shitshow! Specifically because we are using the old bus network, instead of the new network designed for LRT.

Everyone is having a great first impression of the LRT itself, and a bad first impression of the combined LRT + connecting bus system. Specifically because of the parallel bus service. It's giving an inaccurate, negative impression of what life will be like with LRT.

Edit: Thanks for the gold! :)

Posted Sep 17, 2019, 11:59 PM UTC · edited

81106
The_Canada_Goose•

The 3 week parallel service is to help people adjust and would ensure that the sky wouldn't fall if the LRT had issues.

It's a bit late to change now.

98
The_Canada_Goose•

Another sub thought: They should advise supervisors that if they need trips to be covered, they could shorten a trip's service to an LRT station instead.

Would avoid any cancellations and make up for the crappy service we've had during the construction of LRT.

12
Prometheus188OP•

Can you give an example of this with specific routes? I'm having trouble imagining how this would work. I want to understand this.

-1†
The_Canada_Goose•

Ex 1. Instead of cancelling an important trip such as 268 Kanata during rush hour. They would just tell a 97 to end at Hurdman instead of Tunney's Pasture.

Ex 2. If a 129 is already late leaving La Cite, they would call in and tell the driver to finish at Blair. And do an Orleans-bound route that is already at risk of being cancelled or extremely late.

8
TheMonkeyMafiaWestboro•

Because of interlining, it's not quite that simple

9
TheClayrooBarrhaven•

That would require the union being on board since it would extend routes when a driver might be off or on break.

4
mrpopenfreshGatineau•

They already cancel by level of importance, and can cancel partial trips.

1
zydco•

3 weeks though? It should be one week max.

Or at least, all Express buses should end/start at blair/tunneys in week 2

4
[deleted]•

Honestly, if anybody remembers the Rapibus deployment fiasco in Gatineau, it's a good idea in a sense, but the temporary nature needs to be advertised.

1
mrpopenfreshGatineau•

The STO did not have the ressources to run parallel service. The Rapibus launch was a fiasco for many reasons, one of them being that it's run by a budget service with little ressources.

2
jim002•

It's like we've learned nothing from completely switching off one system and a new one on, with no parallel gradual integration.

0
Prometheus188OP•

The 3 week parallel service is to help people adjust and would ensure that the sky wouldn't fall if the LRT had issues.

I know. Literally the first sentence of my post.

The rationale behind it is admirable, an insurance policy in case the LRT breaks down majorly during the opening weeks.

How many people do you think came out to try LRT for the first time? As in, people who aren't existing transit riders. They will be permanently turned off from transit because of these negative experiences. Some people may even start driving. Think of the hundreds of posts/comments saying "It's going to add transfers, LRT sucks".

It's a bit late to change now.

I know. I'm saying why it's a bad idea. It's important to recognize that. It's super important to let people know that the parallel bus service is making transit worse right now, and that the first 3 weeks of LRT service are not representative of what the system will actually be like. It's giving an unfair, negative impression of the system. This could hurt the long term ridership of LRT. It's a very costly mistake. We only have one chance to launch the system, and we need a good first impression. Unfortunately, that didn't happen. Not for the LRT + connecting bus system.

-2†
gooomonk•

So having the regular bus service overlap for an extremely short period of time as an insurance is a horrible idea? I'm curious in your mind what a good idea would be and how it would solve the issue of transporting rush hour people if by any chance the lrt not functioning during these critical few weeks.

10
Prometheus188OP•

Did you read my post though? I explained thoroughly why it's a bad idea. As for train issues, just send replacement bus service. You can have extra busses on standby specifically for the first few launch weeks, and send R1 replacement service or make them 95's, 61's, etc...

It's very unlikely we'd have a catastrophic failure. Most issues can be solved within minutes. More serious issues that take out one half of the line, can still be dealt with by running trains in both directions using 1 set of tracks. You can combine that with replacement bus service if needed. There are plenty of alternatives besides fucking over the entire system with shitty transit service for the first 3 weeks of service, giving everyone a bad impression.

-2†
jacob_ewing•

I think things like "fucking over the entire system" and "permanently turned off" are a bit extreme and rather unrealistic.

If there was a sudden heavy increase in the number of busses affecting traffic, people could be frustrated with that; that didn't happen. Drivers and Pedestrians will see the same traffic level that they have been seeing for years. If the trains added to the traffic then you might have a point, but it's a separate system and the only increase you'll see is pedestrians being more dense around the stations.

Further to that, in a couple of weeks those extra busses are gone. You make it sound like people will be "Oh well it's too late now! I hate it!", but people are more flexible than that. Once the downtown traffic is reduced people will be enjoying the benefit of it and not "permanently turned off" because the busses that have been running for years still had to run for a couple of weeks.

5
Sherwood_Hero•

It'll be over in 2 weeks I don't see the issue. I think it'll be good, because there will be resisters, once they are forced to transfer to the Train, they'll be able to follow the masses. Likewise, what if it failed miserably? We'd have the buses as a back up and everything would flow until the issue could be resolved.

29
aelysee761Carlington•

2 more weeks of suffering with route 14

-2
Prometheus188OP•

It'll be over in 2 weeks I don't see the issue.

The issue is that all transit riders in Ottawa will experience 3 weeks of bad first impressions. Many will quit transit. Potential new riders will be permanently turned off from transit. 3 weeks of horrible service. They could have simply had all these buses on standby and run them as R1 or 95/61/97 types of routes.

I think it'll be good, because there will be resisters, once they are forced to transfer to the Train, they'll be able to follow the masses.

The only reason "Resistors" is even a thing, is because of the parallel bus service. They wouldn't exist without it. They'd all be forced off at Blair/Tunney's, and the red vested employees at stations would help anyone who was confused, just like they do now.

-9
dalihassam•

Many will quit transit.

Show me these people that are quitting transit because the buses are not running in parallel for 3 weeks.

90% of people taking the bus are doing so because they can't afford a car. You think people have an option here?

Grow up. This is mass transit, not some kind of dog and pony show for babies. Oh the bus is late and half full, fuck OC Transpo I'm going to buy a car with Payday Loans.

18
john_duneNepean•

I can afford a car, I can't afford parking it downtown.

Bus passes are half the monthly cost of parking if I could even get a spot

3
Prometheus188OP•

You clearly didn't read my post, because you're arguing against me in your tone, but semi agreeing with me. Reread my post. The buses ARE running in parallel RIGHT NOW. And that's the problem. Read my post again. I think you're confused.

-2
tke71709•

Dude, you're nuts. First impressions are actually better because people haven't seen the potential shit show of everyone having to get off at Tunney's to head down to the rail line. They also get to slowly stress test the system. The first day a handful of people got off my bus to get on the train. This morning 3/4 of the bus did so once they heard from others that it was pretty smooth.

OC Transpo service has been shit for the last couple of years, if people are going to quit because it sucks for another 3 weeks then they were going to quit anyway.

10
Prometheus188OP•

Reread my post. After October 6th, the crowds at Tunney's will GO DOWN. It will be LESS of a shitshow. Read my post before replying.

0
tke71709•

Sorry I missed the obvious statement that when EVERYONE has to get off at Tunney's instead of buses continuing downtown half full that there will then be LESS people there as more people are disembarking in the same area causing smaller crowds.

Or maybe you mean the ride home? So there will be smaller crowds at Tunney's once people stop half filling the buses downtown and everyone starts at the same point now that more people will be loading in the same area hence resulting in smaller crowds.

Running a parallel system to ensure continuity in the short term is way easier and smarter than trying to reschedule hundreds of buses should the train system have a major failure in the first few weeks of operation.

I'm comfortable with my original position that your statement is nuts.

2
Sherwood_Hero•

Or the resistors could switch to driving right away. Everyone at my work place has said positives things (I haven't used it myself, so i have no idea).

I'm sure that Tunney's is a shit show, it was a shit show prior to the LRT.

We are both talking about hypothetical scenarios as neither of us know how it will play out. I still think that there is some value in maintaining redundancy during the transition period. That being said, I'm that some resistors will try as the time goes on and less and less people will be on the bus by the end of the 3 week period.

They could "quit" transit, but that may require purchasing a car/second car and another parking spot. I really don't think that the sky is falling.

8
Prometheus188OP•

How does that make any sense? Why would non existent resistors randomly start driving? Doesn't make any sense.

-2†
Sherwood_Hero•

How could they not? "I like my 1 bus commute from Trim to do downtown, I'm not transferring at Blair, that'll be a disaster I'm driving."

2 weeks post LRT - 1 week left of the transition "Hey Greg, how is the transfer at Blair, I'm considering driving?". "Hey Mike, it's not too bad and the time saved going through downtown totally makes up for the transfer, you should try it."

I don't think either way we are going to see a mass increase in ridership or drivers, because of a 3 week transition.

3
Sensfan16•

I think they should have started the new buses from Tunney's and Blair at the start of the LRT and keep the 95 for the 3 week adjustment. This way the people getting off at either station can jump on the new route or the 95.

Something like that idea anyhow.

Edit: Better yet reduce the 95 altogether. Half the trips. And put the other half on the new routes from Blair and Tunney's.

16
FalseNineNein•

Everyone is having a great first impression of the LRT itself, and a bad first impression of the combined LRT + connecting bus system. Specifically because of the parallel bus service. It's giving an inaccurate, negative impression of what life will be like with LRT.

Won’t the current issues be exacerbated once the parallel service comes to an end though, with more people on the train, more people at Blair, more people at Tunney’s, etc...?

At least 3 weeks gives them time to figure out where they effed up and how to rectify the situation before things really gets out of hand.

16
Prometheus188OP•

Nope. The new bus service dramatically improves things above and beyond the current shitty parallel bus service. The LRT can easily handle all the riders. LRT has MORE capacity than the existing buses, not less. This statement is extremely important. it should not be skimmed over. Specifically, the LRT + connecting bus system has MORE capacity, not less. But only if the new network is in place. The parallel bus service fucks everything up.

1: Blair and Tunney's each have room for 18 buses to load and unload passengers at the same time.

The CURRENT bus routes are causing problems. They're getting delayed downtown, they're late and half full. The new bus system has buses start at Blair/Tunney's, so they're always on time, and showing up empty, ready to pick up tons of passengers. Shorter, more frequent routes INCREASES bus capacity at Blair, Tunney's and Hurdman.

We wouldn't need 3 weeks to figure out what the problem is. The 3 week parallel bus service IS the problem. It;s directly causing all of the bus issues.

The parallel service is directly causing the issues. Ending the parallel bus service will literally, overnight, reduce/eliminate the issues.

20
Haber87•

Shorter, more frequent routes INCREASES bus capacity at Blair, Tunney's and Hurdman.

That's what I would have hoped would happen. But check your routes. The routes I've checked have decreased frequency after October 6th.

5
Prometheus188OP•

The route frequencies are slightly misleading. I'll explain using Orleans as an example since I'm way more familiar with those routes. The 95 is the major route serving the Orleans "transitway". You can throw the 91 in there as well, but that's just a modified 95. These routes are being replaced Oct 6th by the 39, which runs from Trim to Blair (the transitway portion). If you solely look at the frequencies of the 39, it's slightly less than the 95.

But there's a massive difference here. Currently, all the local routes just run to Trim, or Place d'Orleans. Routes like the 135, 122, 33 (120), etc... All of these routes will be extended to Blair on Oct 6th. So Instead of just having the 39 from Blair to Orleans, we have all of the local routes + the 39 running along the transitway. The combined frequencies of all these routes is higher than the old 95 + 91.

So that's why you can't compare route frequencies directly. Same idea in Kanata/Tunney's. If you look exclusively at "transitway" or major routes like the 61, it'll appear that frequencies are going down. But all the Kanata local routes are being extended to Blair, so you have to combine all their frequencies to get the true values.

2
Haber87•

I checked all my local routes that get me closer to my house than walking from the highway and there is a net loss of buses.

4
[deleted]•

[removed]

1
bregmatter•

> Won’t the current issues be exacerbated once the parallel service comes to an end though, with more people on the train, more people at Blair, more people at Tunney’s, etc...?

No, because the problem at the terminus stations is that the passenger sink rate is lower than the source rate. For a period of time passengers are arriving at the station faster than they're leaving it. The parallel service means all the usual delays to the buses (boarding/alighting delays, traffic delays) and a schedule that was not designed to provide the appropriate sink rate that those particular stations.

The solution is to eliminate the bus runs through downtown (and their ensuing delays) and adjust the sink rate at the stations themselves to match the expected source rate, mostly by having the same number of buses running more frequently and faster because of shorter routes. Both throughput and reliability will be improved.

They already know how to rectify the situation. I suspect the 3-week delay in implementing the fix is more a political thing than a technical thing.

3
Pass3Part0uT•

What's a bad impression is the fucking ideas OC Transpo is allowed to make like the west buses leaving Tunney's being on opposite sides of the station so if you don't need to go to Barrhaven or kanata you have to choose which of the buses you think will come first because they're half a kilometer apart.

12
Pika3323Alta Vista•

Barrhaven or kanata you have to choose which of the buses you think will come first because they're half a kilometer apart.

That's the point.

If you don't live in Barrhaven or Kanata, why are you taking buses meant to be used by people who actually live there?

8
Pass3Part0uT•

Umm... Those are the buses you take to go west. No buses end at Westboro, dominion, Lincoln fields, iris, Pinecrest, Queensway, Bayshore.... Etc etc.

10
chzplz•

The reality is that we were spoiled in the past. I’m assuming that you’re like me and can walk to the Transitway from your house? I could take any of the 60’s, 270’s, most of the 90’s, and a sprinkling of others. Keeping all of that together for the few of us who can take any of them would be a shit show like any of the downtown stations, but with ALL the passengers from ALL of the downtown stations using it at the same time. Extreme shit show Hunger Games extraordinaire.

Your best bet is to head to F and watch for busses that are heading to G.

And be glad that with Phase 2 we’ll get LRT service to our homes.

6
Pass3Part0uT•

I guess it's just disappointing to have so many areas not considered destinations so the bus access to those areas is spread out. I'll have to settle for using far fewer buses but I agree, the long-term vision is leagues better than what the next decade looks like. They should have begged for more money to get this as far as Westboro but I'm sure there's a lot of factors on why it ends where it does.

I wonder how they're going to figure out how many people are using which routes now that nobody's going to be tapping. They can infer from where people get on but the buses at B are going to be way busier than F for the first 3 stops at Westboro/Dominion/Lincoln Fields which could impact the people who actually need those buses to get all the way home. Maybe some more door counters to make sure the capacity is there but paying a student to monitor how irate we all are is probably cheaper!

2
Pika3323Alta Vista•

The point is still to split people trying to get to those intermediary stations so that there isn't a huge crush of people in one part of the station.

2
Pass3Part0uT•

That doesn't make sense unless they skip all the stops before those communities. The buses that duplicate routes along the Transitway should be trying to take as many passengers as they can before they leave the station.

As much as I hate express buses skipping past me half empty, I understand their purpose. I don't understand why there's six buses that share half their route but you're expected to flip a coin on which to wait for.

7
itsYell•

I wish they diminished the amount of service from the parallel buses while introducing the new routes. That way, riders will still have their 94s and 95s while the people who take the O-Train will be able to familiarize themselves with the new routes such as the 25 down at Blair (aka, having a more frequent and on-time bus, since it’s the same route anyway lol).

Maybe they implemented this 3 week transition period in case anything went wrong with the LRT to the point where they needed to halt the system and move everyone back onto the buses.

9
daphatves•

It was awful at Blair going east. 40000 people waiting to get onto the same “area” (platform D).

The platforms to to don’t have enough busses come through. When they did - they were all full.

Brutal.

9
Prometheus188OP•

This is exactly what I'm talking about. It's not actually going to be like this after October 6th. It gives everyone has this bad impression of transit because of the parallel bus service.

3
daphatves•

The point is, and I get what you are saying, why have 40000 people at one platform. Make it so there are areas in the platform. Only need to go to place d’Orléans - stand at A. Want to go to Avalon - go to B. Fallingbrook - go to c. Spread it out so don’t get people who need to only go to place taking up Avalon seats (busses are limited).

6
Prometheus188OP•

THAT'S EXACTLY WHATS HAPPENING ON OCT 6th! See once that's that's exactly what I'm talking about. These improvements aren't happening until Oct 6th. And that leads to a bad first impression. Please don't take that caps lock as yelling. It's just emphasis. If we did all of this from day 1, the impressions would be so much better.

0
daphatves•

Really? All the platforms at Blair were not sectioned off in such manner, unless I missed it. I had to ask the guy in the vest where to do, and he said “D”. I go to D and tons of people are there. Looking at the signs, it was for all of Orleans, not just certain areas of Orléans.

I will pay more attention next, but it was kind of hard. That said - when the buses aren’t full and can do rapid loops to Blair and Orleans, it will be better...I hope.

  • didn’t take ur CAPS as yelling. Good conversation!
3
TenTonApe•

Buses showing up late and full isn't new, it's normal. Anyone who'd stop using public transit over 3 weeks of that aren't using public transit. Honestly my concern is how many people will be at Tunneys when the parallel service stops, it's already a decent sized crowd, but it's going to be MUCH bigger soon.

8
Prometheus188OP•

Buses showing up late and full isn't new, it's normal. Anyone who'd stop using public transit over 3 weeks of that aren't using public transit

Yes, that's literally what I just said. Those who are giving public transit a chance will be permanently turnoff off from transit because of the parallel bus service.

And please read my post again. When the parallel bus service ends, the crowded will get MUCH SMALLER, not bigger. I've thoroughly explained it in my post.

0
TenTonApe•

You seem to have some unrealistic expectations for the quality of bus service come October. The crowds will get bigger because the trains will be everyone instead of about half of everyone, and when they come pouring out of the train they're going to overwhelm everything. The stairs at Tunneys are already insufficient and the people getting off buses to get on the train collide directly with the people leaving. This mass of people will then move across the platform to get to their stops which hopefully were emptied by buses passing through, but maybe not. Then when the bus arrives the crowd all moves in for that bus, completely packing it. I'm all for the LRT, but Tunneys is going to be a mess come October, hopefully an interim solution can be found till 2025.

7
Prometheus188OP•

Please read my post. I've literally addressed every single thing you said in this comment. Just rest the post. I've addressed everything you said.

-1
TenTonApe•

Your entire post presumes buses will arrive on time, regularly and consist of the correct routes. My point is this initial presumption is flawed. If you think you've explained this well enough you're gonna have to start dropping quotes, because you haven't.

6
truenorth00•

Yep. This seemed like a good idea in theory. In reality, they should have ripped the Band-Aid off and forced conversion from the first working day. I think they really underestimated the ability of Ottawa residents to adapt.

6
ApricotPenguin•

With the new system, the 95 (39) starts at Blair, so it's empty and always on time.

​

Your points are valid, and work in theory, but I think this is the biggest wrench that will exist. I regularly take the 80 which starts from Tunney's Pasture. About 1 in 3 buses tend to not show up, or are late by more than ~5 minutes.

​

A lot of times, buses aren't sitting idle at the station - rather they are finishing a previous route (whether it be across the city, or just returning to Tunney's) - that bus can still have delays.

​

Right now, the LRT is bringing passengers to Tunney's at a faster rate than buses can bring them out. Given how buses tend to be late, even at stations that they start at, I don't hold too much hope for a vast improvement with the new routes.... hopefully OC Transpo proves me wrong :)

5
Prometheus188OP•

Your points are valid, and work in theory, but I think this is the biggest wrench that will exist. I regularly take the 80 which starts from Tunney's Pasture. About 1 in 3 buses tend to not show up, or are late by more than ~5 minutes.

Exactly! That's a CURRENT problem that is directly solved by the new bus network! That's the whole point I've been making. With LRT + new bus network, the buses will be significantly shorter. Shorter, more frequent routes that actually start at Tunney's will be on time way more than the current buses. Along with not getting stuck in downtown traffic, it'll be much more rare for buses to be late starting at Tunney's.

Right now, the LRT is bringing passengers to Tunney's at a faster rate than buses can bring them out.

Yes that's true, RIGHT NOW. The new bus system directly solves that issue.

Given how buses tend to be late, even at stations that they start at, I don't hold too much hope for a vast improvement with the new routes....

Once again, that's a current problem. Your entire perspective on this is affected by the current buses. CURRENT buses are 45 km long like the 95. After LRT, it'll be 11 km in the east (34 km shorter) and 20 km in the west/south (25 km shorter). It will avoid downtown traffic, and will travel much more in traffic free areas like the transitway. Shorter, more frequent routes that are now separated from traffic will dramatically reduce delays and late buses.

All of the concerns you have are valid about the current buses. The new bus network directly solves all of these issues. That's the whole point I've been making this entire time.

2
FalseNineNein•

Is Industrial the only depot OC Transpo has? If so, all those buses still need to make the trek through the core to get to Tunney’s, so the argument some make about busses making it on time because they won’t have to sit downtown doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me.

1
roots-rock-reggaeVanier•

There's a big depot on Merivale and another one on Queensview.

7
hammy_gman•

Just off Merivale on Colonnade. There is also the main one at St-Laurent / Belfast. Not all types of buses come from all garages either. For example, I believe that double deckers only live at Industrial.

2
bregmatter•

Schedulers need to add the appropriate deadhead time to a run to account for that. If a bus is late when deadheading the scheduler needs to find more appropriate employment.

2
aelysee761Carlington•

colonnade, pinecrest, st Laurent, industrial

2
lrezans•

Realistically, they’re beta testing the system with customers until October 6. There have already been several hiccups in the service already and we’ve been lucky nothing significant has occurred during rush periods yet. I think a straight switchover would have carried a high risk of failure with no backup capable of dealing with a closure in the downtown.

Honestly, most rush hours before the LRT started I was seeing complaints of busses skipping stops in the downtown because they were full or just being absent on Twitter. So now they all skip at the same locations leaving a large crowd standing at two stations. It’s just making the lack of capacity at rush hour more visible.

OC Transpo isn’t prepared to deal with questions about the current system. I took the LRT yesterday and ended up at a new station to catch a new bus and finding the correct bus stop was a guessing game as the signs had the new route names and the staff I asked in the station couldn’t direct me to the correct stop even with the help of the station map. I can only imagine the pandemonium on the sixth when most of the buses change and everyone is forced to use the LRT in the core. I suspect they haven’t modelled the changes in traffic patterns that are going to result without buses stuck in traffic on Albert and Slater and we’ll be seeing adjustments needed in the coming months, especially in the downtown.

4
deskamess•

You are supposed to "beta test" the "final" system. They are not doing this. This is basically "transition mode" where they test the LRT at a lighter load since many continue to use the parallel buses. Which is ok, but I would not call it beta testing. You cannot have a real beta test in this environment, but transition/alpha testing is a good best effort as it exercises the main component (LRT), albeit at lighter volume. Ideally they would decommission more of the parallel routes each day we operate in 'transition mode'. So pick a route, and instead of running 60 parallel routes a day, have 10 of them clearly marked as terminating at a station (so 50 parallel / 10 station). Two days later, add another 10 so your mix is 40p/20s. This increases the load on the LRT gradually. Measure and react continuously.

With the current approach, the real "beta" starts in production.

5
hammy_gman•

Not a bad theory, but the logistics are mind-boggling and the customer information piece is a huge challenge. There are already enough changes and dates for customers to figure out, having something change every couple of days would be too confusing.

4
risk_is_our_business•

Isn’t that par for the course?

0
Mjollnir69•

It's not even just the parallel service that will give the poor first impression. Bus service from the south end is the worst I've ever seen it. Buses heading downtown are full before they even hit Fallowfield Park and Ride, the main hub for commuters here. Park and Ride lots in the area are full by 0730 or 0800.

No point in a new service if no one is going to make it to that service.

4
Whisky_Jack_•

| The 45 km 95 becomes an 11 km route 39 (34 km shorter) and a 20 km route 75 (25 km shorter). This is happening with all the major buses. Shorter, more frequent buses that are separated from traffic. This is the major advantage of the LRT system with respect to the new bus network.

I hope you're right. My fear is that my west-serving 95 is coming across the city to start its run. In the past I've had Nepean am expresses that were served by buses coming directly from Orleans. In the winter. I haven't followed the LRT details closely, but I didn't see anything about the drivers' contract requiring them to only do routes in the east or the west during a shift. Could still be in for problems if physical buses aren't assigned "districts" during a driver's shift.

3
corynvv•

sure, but the main issue was that some routes were so long amd were being delayed so much that they were 10+ minutes late starting the next route. With shorter routes (and more frequent "breaks (for lack of a better term)) we shouldn't be seeing that anymore. Even if there are buses going on routes throughout the city during the day (Like doing the 61 to Tunney's > 57 to Bayshore > 11 to downtown > 18 to St.Laurent). That's better than just doing a single 40km route from barrhaven to Orleans. Without the pauses between routes to get break on time if a bus is a bit late, that causes much more delay.

1
Leafs17•

But they are laying off a bunch of drivers. Where are these drivers now? Are they not on the parallel routes? So who will drive the new routes?

3
Sophca•

I'm wondering if any "connexion" buses are skipping Blair in the afternoon this week by mistake. I took one from downtown yesterday and someone from OC came on board to tell the driver that he had to stop at Blair. The driver seemed surprised.

I then transfered in Orléans to another bus and it was nearly empty, this route is typically very full at that time.

If any buses do skip Blair, that would definitely make the platform busier. (I haven't experienced this but it's the impression I have based on driver's reaction and nearly empty rush hour connexion bus)

3
cadence124•

You are the first person to explain this in such an eloquent way without just shifting on the new system completely. I eagerly await for when the 3 week period is over to really see what this is capable of.

2
Prometheus188OP•

I fully support LRT phase 1 and 2 and even phase 3. I love LRT. I've taken the new line and absolutely loved it. I just wish the parallel bus service wasn't in place. The now network coming in Oct 6th will vastly improve the system. If only we could have had that on day 1. I can't for Oct 6th!

2
darcyWhyteHunt Club Park•

I found the service great. I guess I'm not included in "everyone".

I think they're doing the right thing.

1
Prometheus188OP•

Did you have to transfer to a bus at Tunney's during rush hour? If not, this doesn't really apply to you.

1
Below_Cost•

That's a rather presumptuous statement. I have been transferring at Tunneys daily during rush hour and have had zero issues. While I understand many others are not having the same experience you can't universally apply that to everyone.

2
doughaway421•

It was probably a better idea than stopping all the buses, when the system was still untested under full passenger loads, leaving the potential for a total mess if the trains had a failure.

1
FitCareer7Centretown•

I think that the real underlying reason they kept the 3 weeks of parallel service (apart from allowing people to adjust slowly) was because they knew the LRT wasn’t 100% ready. The performance during the 12 days of testing was slightly questionable, but got the passing grade. I think the City and RTG figured that it was good enough for launch (rather than missing another deadline) and that they could iron out the remaining kinks during the 3 week period, using the buses as a backup in case anything goes wrong.

1
roots-rock-reggaeVanier•

The parallel service has been planned for for quite a while now. Nothing to do with shakey 12-day test period.

3
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1