The EPIC game store forces you to "opt out" of EU digital rights law. Can this actually be enforced? Would it hold up in court?
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Posted Oct 25, 2019, 4:58 PM UTC · edited
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you will lose this right after downloading the software and playing for 2 hours.
So the exact same refund policy that Steam uses? Why are you framing this as a problem for Epic alone?
In fact, I just went to grab a link since I know someone's going to get all "no u!" about it, and it looks like Steam's is even more egregious, removing your right to withdrawal the moment you begin downloading your software, not after 2 hours' playtime:
For any digital content purchased online, you have agreed upon checkout that the withdrawal period will expire 14 days after you purchase such digital content or when you start downloading the content for the first time, whichever is sooner.
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I don't like the Epic Store any more than anyone else, but if this means Epic Store has the same return policy as Steam I don't see the problem with it.
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It actually means that, with specific regard to this piece of EU law, Epic's policy is better than Steam's. But that doesn't generate clicks and karma...
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That may be the stated policy, but Steam's own FAQ states the following:
Valve will, upon request via help.steampowered.com, issue a refund for any title that is requested within 14 days of purchase and has been played for less than 2 hours - this includes online, offline and shared library playtime. Even if you fall outside of the refund rules we've described, you can submit a request and we'll take a look at it.
Which pretty much ends up being the same as Epic Games.
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Yeah, that's why I put in the qualifier of "with specific regard to this piece of EU law." Both stores have the same refund policy (despite the ill-informed narrative about Epic's policy that likes to make the rounds here), but Epic decided to specifically codify the 2 hour restriction into their wording about this EU law while Steam didn't.
Don't imagine it would ever matter in practice, but as-written, for this specific thing, Epic's is technically more lenient.
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Ends up being the same but the actual agreement is worse.
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So the exact same refund policy that Steam uses? Why are you framing this as a problem for Epic alone?
Take a guess.
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Why are you framing this as a problem for Epic alone?
I think we know :p
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Yeah, but I want them to say it. :)
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and it looks like Steam's is even more egregious, removing your right to withdrawal the moment you begin downloading your software
No, that's the EU law. Steam gives you two hours which goes above and beyond what the law requires.
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They do in practice, sure, but read the link I included. In their policy text regarding this EU law, they do not specify the 2 hours, while Epic does.
Now, obviously, if you've got less than 2 hours played and you're within the 14 days of purchase, Steam's going to refund you. They aren't going to reference that link up there and turn you down, even though it says you've withdrawn your right when you download the software.
But. When you compare the wording of the two policies, on paper, Epic's is more lenient.
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Damn steam is scummy pc needs more launchers.
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You missed the point.
If Epic just say you can't refund if you played a total of 2 hrs, nobody will bat an eye. But instead, they are saying you withdraw for the law if you played for 2 hrs. Which wouldn't be possible.
Also, steam allows refund past the 2hrs under certain circumstances. Epic's wording doesn't allow that.
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Steam specifically says that you withdraw from the law as soon as you begin downloading your software. If it's not okay for Epic after 2 hours played, then why is it okay for Steam the moment you begin a download?
Note that this is all essentially just boilerplate policy text that is in compliance with the EU directive in question. Nothing nefarious from either party, but that doesn't fit the narrative around here.
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But instead, they are saying you withdraw for the law if you played for 2 hrs. Which wouldn't be possible.
Yes you can. It's written into the law. The 14 day period only applies if you don't use the product.
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Did you click here to find out more?
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It just links to the following: https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/right-of-withdrawal which has more info on how to request a refund.
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So the same thing Valve/Steam does?
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That is indeed according to the EU law
The 14-day cooling off period does not apply to all purchases. Some of the exemptions are:
online digital content, if you have already started downloading or streaming it and you agreed that you would lose your right of withdrawal by starting the performance
In fact, if they didn't ask this, you would be able to play the game as much as you want for 14 days and then freely refund it, which would obviously be nonsense, since most games can be easily finished in 14 days...
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Yes it it is completely legal and nearly all digital stores do this. Its literally the exact same refund policy as Steam.
But I feel like you already knew that and wanted to stir up drama.
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"You also enjoy the right of withdrawal within 14 days from concluding the contract for online digital content. However, once you start downloading or streaming the content you may no longer withdraw from the purchase, provided that the trader has complied with his obligations. Specifically, the trader must first obtain your explicit agreement to the immediate download or streaming, and you must explicitly acknowledge that you lose your right to withdraw once the performance has started."
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The funny thing is that this pops up on the free games too. Why would anyone want to return a free game? Its probably there because why bother removing it, and it informs you on your future purposes, but still funny.
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Yes, this is very explicitly allowed by the relevant laws and nearly all digital game purchasing services do this. Most do so instantly at time of purchase (even before downloading) even though that is the one thing that isn't allowed by the law in question - Nintendo has been under fire for this practice for a while now.
This exception is a part of the general online shopping directive:
Nintendo games start downloading the moment you purchase them, so that, while scummy, is actually legal. What isn't, on the other hand, is not allowing refunds for pre-orders.
Do they ask you beforehand to download? If not, that's illegal.
From what I remember, they do indeed warn you that the purchase will start a download and you are waiving the right for a refund as a result.
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This answers it, thanks! So there's something written into the law, that allows for exemptions. The wording just threw me, it sounds like they're saying "The EU allows you to return digital content for 14 days, full stop, but you agree to not have that law apply to you."
It's 100% fair and understandable, otherwise people would be returning content they've played, watched or listened to all the time.
Sadly Sony doesnt do it. I bought GTA Trilogy on PS4 and they run worse than they did on my old Pentium 4 or whatever i had back then and i couldnt get a refund. They are buggy and full of framerate problems and they refuse refund once you download the game.