The current state of Fire Emblem Heroes and its revenue in the year 2019

Serious Discussion

Recently, in r/gachagaming, there is a thread talking about the number of twitter followers of World Flipper (JP), Cygames' most recently released mobile game that just got released just two weeks ago [122.1k as of the time of this writing], surpassing that of Dragalia Lost (JP) [120.8k as of the time of this writing]. Yikes (for Dragalia Lost)!

Also, World Flipper for English, please!

But, since this is Fire Emblem Heroes, there is something on that thread that is needed to be noted here concerning this game – its current yearly revenue. One of the comments there shows the list of Top 100 Grossing Mobile Games in the Japanese market this year of 2019. As of the time of the writing, the game Fire Emblem Heroes is currently sitting at Rank 54 with ¥ 4.47 billion, just below Summoners War at Rank 53. This is still a lot of revenue but comparing that to the game's yearly revenue last year (Rank 26 with ¥ 10.7 billion), this can be a bit concerning especially for its developers and its publishers. For that matter, DL is nowhere to be found at Top 100 compared to last year and Nintendo's second most profitable mobile game right now in Japan is Animal Crossing Pocket Camp (Rank 63 with ¥ 3.69 billion) which is quite consistent in relation to its revenue (and even ranking) last year.

That being said, what happened to make the revenue to become like this compared to last year? Of course, naturally, Fire Emblem: Three Houses was released almost half a year ago so that might affect this game's revenue, but Fire Emblem Heroes' most profitable year is still in its release year of 2017, the year where Fire Emblem: Shadows of Valentia was released. Maybe this game's decisions this year made some of its consumers deciding not to spend as much money as before.

Perhaps, it can gain some momentum to push its revenue to more than 5 billion with the upcoming Holiday/Christmas summoning banner that can be followed by its newest New Year banner if the latter ever released this month. Quality of Life changes this year had been really good so far though. But this is something to be noted about this point.

So, for now, just as a meme says, “Daed gmae?”

The answer is no, absolutely not. Fire Emblem Heroes is still one of the Top 100 Grossing Mobile Games in Japan so that is still important. But that would also mean Intelligent Systems needed to work on something so the game could still garner more attention to its consumers now and even next year (and as a result, more revenue to meet Nintendo's expectations). Perhaps, the Divine Codes of Mjolnir's Strike will play an important role in the game's future. Maybe, more deals each offering a free Legendary/Mythic/Seasonal Hero would work too, like the ones with Holiday Tharja and with Legendary Roy, as these deals made the game be within the Daily Top 10 during those days these bundles are released (these bundles consists of a free Limited Hero, after all). Even more Quality of Life changes will work as well.

But for now, this game's potential revenue this year can be a bit concerning to look at the moment... and yeah, Dragalia Lost's too, especially in Japan.

Posted Dec 11, 2019, 5:15 AM UTC

63132
smash_fanaticFeh•

More freebies wouldn't hurt. They're relatively generous, but one thing gacha games do is that they get MORE generous as the game goes on. FEH's generosity has stayed relatively stagnant. The free orb per month has stayed around the low 300s... for over 2 years. Yes, IS has thrown in other non-orb stuffs liek summoning tickets, but at the end of the day, the most valuable resource is orbs. FGO meanwhile is starting to give more quartz daily on the NA server for example.

But what they really need to do is fix fundamental problems with the game. They NEED to start with summoning, it's the meat and potatoes for any gacha game and is the driving income for gachas. Pity rates are fundamentally flawed in that you actively want a 3 or 4 star unit over the majority of off-focus 5-stars. That is NOT how you design a winning gacha.

Every gacha should want players to pull higher rarity units even if those units may not be particularly strong, simply because of rarity. If I pull someone mediocre in FGO like Artoria, I'm not thinking "what the fuck I got an Artoria when I could've gotten Merlin????", I'm thinking "well at least she's more interesting than another fucking 3-star saber that I've NP5'd a year ago because this is my first or second Artoria copy." But when you're pulling for Peony and you get 5% pity rate and then you end up with a Shiro, you feel like quitting the game because now your pity rate drops back to 3% and the Shiro actively hurt your chances of getting Peony, you would unironically be better off getting a 3-star Oboro over Shiro just because of the pity rate. This is a massive pitfall with the summoning system that is actively causing frustration when you summon, which is the opposite of what summoning should be; the player should WANT to summon and can't wait to drop his orbs/gems/quartz/etc. on the new banner, not be like "Well shit I could try for Peony but then I'm going to be fucking annoyed if I drop 200 orbs and all I get is a pity breaker Thea."

They need to also go back and fix existing game modes. IS is too quick to just add new game modes but don't go back to fix problems in existing ones. They're going for quantity than quality and that's a problem. FGO is a one trick pony; it's literally only good because of the waifus writing and it's otherwise a massive fucking grindfest, but they clearly spend a lot of time weaving their storyline and it shows. Meanwhile in FEH, the training tower is entirely irrelevant outside of dumb quests they force. It took them a year and a half to actually fix arena (which became a dumpster fire because of a change they made, so all they did was fix that change) when people were literally telling them how to fix arena the day after they made the babysitter change. They somehow consistently make modes WORSE, like the aforementioned babysitter arena, or when they made mythic heroes affect lift gains (defense MHs were implemented fine, the offense MHs however were horrendously implemented). Most games get better as they progress; FEH takes one step forward, one step back.

This also extends to units too. They add like 10 units a month. Only 4 units a month get refines. This is not including units who have gotten refines but were bad or not enough (coughTakumicough). They cannot keep pace with the powercreep.

IS is falling into the common gacha designer trap of thinking that you always have to pwoercreep and make new toys. That's false. What you actually need to do is focus on your fundamentals. I don't want to go summon for fallen tiki if she's going to get powercrept in a year.

91
Soren319Eirika (Graceful Resolve)•

How do you propose they fix the summoning issue you described in paragraph 2 and 3

4 refines a month is so fking pathetic. It takes barely any effort on their part to do these, and yet we’re getting a pittance of an amount. We’re still not done with gen 1 refines when we’re in gen 4 now ffs.

35
smash_fanaticFeh•

There are a lot of ways to fix it but I think this would be the simplest while still keeping the "pity rate" system.

  1. 5-stars no longer break pity rate.

  2. Pity rate caps off after 50 summons on the banner, but your pity rate stays at that amount until the banner ends.

Done, fin. There are plenty more you can do to add (e.g. it would be nice to get a guaranteed random focus unit every 50 summons, you could increase the focus rate, etc.) but you would immediately fix like 90% of the problems with the summoning system in 30 seconds.

40
SolHiryu•

Pity rate could probably be adjusted so the off-banner 5-star rate is significantly lower than the Rate Up characters, which would probably be the 'fairest' fix in the sense that you have better odds to pull what you want, but IS still has a way to encourage you to spend. (It never did make sense to me that the off-banner rate is the same exact percentage as rate-up...)

Even still, IS needs a much more severe summon pool fix because it really is terrible as it is.

  1. No more 4-5* rarity. There's no point to this, and all it serves is to make pulling a Thea/Mordecai/Reyson at 5* even more soul-crushing than any other pitybreak. Just do straight demotions.

  2. Group summons by series. One of the most hated aspects is that it gets extremely difficult to summon copies of certain 3 or 4* characters because the pool is so diluted. A way to address this is to have all characters of a series be on Rate Up during New Character banners, so you'll have a slightly higher chance than normal to pull characters from the game(s) the banner features.

33
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-6
Soren319Eirika (Graceful Resolve)•

I don’t believe this for a second. New units have to have the artwork done, the voicework done, the base kit figured out, the animations done, the sprite work done, and probably a ton more I’m not even mentioning.

All a refine requires is figuring out how to make the prf look, which is only when they didn’t have a prf to begin with, and what the prf will do and program that.

It’s ridiculous when people say this, because they’ve done more than 4 a month before. Stop defending laziness.

18
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-4
Clerics4LifeBarst•

They need to also go back and fix existing game modes. IS is too quick to just add new game modes but don't go back to fix problems in existing ones.

  • They can start by integrating all the mode's quest rewards into actually doing the mode itself.

Quests like "play mode x times" should replace roundabout nonsense like "leave the mode you're actually enjoying, to do Training Tower / Arena"

No, I really don't feel like leaving to do Training Tower / Arena so I can continue the mode I actually am enjoying, thanks for asking game.

  • They can shorten Forging Bonds, it's one of the longest events in the game right now (alongside Grind Conquests)

3500x4 over 14 days is 1000 points per day. 2500x4 over 10 days is still 1000 points per day, but is faster to do if you've taken slack days. (P.s. fix the rewards structure, the last 1500 points are very unrewarding.)

  • Grind Conquests should get the double stamina spender function like Aether Raids.

Let us drop a Lance to add 8 stamina to the score multiplier, and maybe the mode will cause significantly less burnout (I feel most people currently average 510 minutes a map, which is about 25 hours to reach GC25.)

  • Probably wouldn't kill them to shake up Voting Gauntlets, take inspiration from Splatoon's Splatfests if you have to.

I mean, it doesn't always have to be a quarterfinals slug fest between "destined to fail" and "so massive its impossible to lose", sometimes it'd be nice to have the meat and potatoes from the get go.

Or sometimes it could be a team match, Team Hoshido vs. Team Nohr, or literally whatever theme.

I think everyone's just... done with the foregone conclusions, it kind of defeats the spirit of the mode.

13
jooguhThrasir•

If I pull someone mediocre in FGO like Artoria, I'm not thinking "what the fuck I got an Artoria when I could've gotten Merlin????",

I don’t agree with this take that FGO’s summoning experience is that much different. People get pretty fucking triggered when getting an off-rate-up servant when summoning in FGO, but the same applies when getting a pity breaker in FEH.

I think a really easy and effective solution would be to divert some percent from off-focus rate to the focus rate. So, instead of a 3% / 3% split, it should be something like 4% focus, 2% off-focus and pity rate increases only increases the focus rate and not the off focus rate.

FGO is a one trick pony; it's literally only good because of the waifus writing and it's otherwise a massive fucking grindfest, but they clearly spend a lot of time weaving their storyline and it shows.

TRUE. But I don’t know how and if FEH can implement something like this. They tried something similar in the form of Forging Bonds, but that just fell flat to me; I just started insta-skipping all the dialogue after how bored I was in the first couple FBs. Writing to flesh out your characters helps immensely in drawing people in to wanting to summon a character, but IS seems so clueless when it comes to breathing life into their characters. Who’s going to want to summon a newly added FEH hero bar the people who are already familiar with the character or if the hero has some powerful skills? Sure, some people pull for good art, but that doesn’t seem to be as gripping as a character with some good ass writing.

Anybody who’s familiar with FGO or Girls’ Frontline can probably relate; How often did you initially feel indifferent to some newly released character that you knew nothing about, and then after you read the story or event that the character was featured in, you were like, “Wtf i love this character now. i want them”? How often does this happen in FEH?

9
KuronixFirhyxJaffar (Glorious Gifts)•

How often did you initially feel indifferent to some newly released character that you knew nothing about, and then after you read the story or event that the character was featured in, you were like, “Wtf i love this character now. i want them”?

Most of the time. The story writers really know how to indulge the player to every character without repeating the same archetype. Mandricardo, one of the new Servant character there, got me like "I really don't know who you are so why I care? You're not even popular and just a douche villain." to "Oh my gosh. He's such a bro! He really likes to befriend us but his introvert attitude is pulling him back. Then he tried his best to interact and cheer us even though he is weak. Nasu and the other writers makes him more awesome than real life lore. Let me throw all of my grails and golden Fous on him!" Creating characters with proper backgounds is a great way to entice players to pull for a character. Even if the said characters are not playable in other games.

How often does this happen in FEH?

They tried but always end it on a cliffhanger. Gunnthra, Fjorm, and all of Book OCs suffer in this situation. TT and Forging Bonds is not enough. They should just have combine the two to make a proper story content. They don't even try to pander a character with story, all they do is give them alts and call it a day.

3
lcelerateMicaiah•

IS is falling into the common gacha designer trap of thinking that you always have to pwoercreep and make new toys. That's false. What you actually need to do is focus on your fundamentals. I don't want to go summon for fallen tiki if she's going to get powercrept in a year.

Is powercreep really that bad? Surtr was released in Nov 2018 yet even 13 months later, I'd argue he's still the best axe armour in the game so it was a worthwhile investment.

1
MrNight-NSBlack Knight•

Surtr is the exception, not even close to the norm. They gave him an awesome kit that is insanely unique and functions well for an armor unit.

A better comparison would be between Ranulf, who came out in 2019, is already powercrept by NY! Lethe who has not only better stats, but a way better weapon as well.

Not to mention the 3-4 star pool has barely changed since launched. Grail units did not help change this either with lackluster additions being more common. So if one is summoning with no bias, Getting a, let's say, Kjelle would be disappointing when Forsyth exists. He has more skills to offer even if you don't want to use him while Kjelle gives a lance that was already available and a dumb AR defense skill while being released in the same year no less. Even though it's sadly still better than getting Shiro or your 856th Est.

2
Soren319Eirika (Graceful Resolve)•

Powercreep did the opposite effect. Whales don’t want to keep whaling for things that get crept as fast as they do in this game.

Duo Heroes are lolworthy. I still don’t get who thought the way they work was a good idea. Legendaries having the dual effect now and not giving those to the older legendaries is another garbage decision.

They should’ve tried sticking to their powercreep quote for longer than they actually did, maybe they’d be making more money instead of half that in a single year.

IMO, rapid powercreep and bad game decisions are why this is happening.

75
Mr_CreedHector (Marquess of Ostia)•

IMO, rapid powercreep and bad game decisions are why this is happening.

That's certainly a factor.

I think they do not provide enough entertaining tactical gameplay. I can only play AR a few times, and regular arena has so little variety (because of how the score works) that it gets really boring.

I am interested in this game and the franchise for two reasons: small scale tactical gameplay, and world/story/character writing. FEH fails on both fronts.

20
MaelikMordecai•

Powercreep wouldn't be as offensive if a unit didn't require 11 copies to reach their full potential. You can't expecting anyone to keep laying down 1000-3000 orbs for each new powercreeping unit that you release, and often unmerged units aren't as worth using. I mean it's only barely now that BST is reaching the levels of gen 1 units unmerged.

3
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1
shaginusKiria•

I don't think It's about Duo or Powercreep well It's one thing but more on a Roster

let's be real Archanea, Echoes, Sacred Stones with less girls? Who spends money on this? not to mention how we got Tellius shove to us every months

IMO It's about who being added

EDIT : hey Redditor Downvoted is not a Dislikes buttons

-30
fangpoint333Sanaki•

That's what happens when you plan to release your units based on popularity. When you rush all of your popular units you're just gonna be stuck with the bottom of the barrel eventually. It's a model that's designed to maximize short term gains but screw over long term. Sure there still may be some characters that people are willing to spend on who haven't been implemented, but those characters are only gonna slowly decrease over time.

In a few years at this rate an alt-less New Heroes banner is gonna consist of heroes who all ranked poorly in CYL. Most of the heroes people actually like will be powercrept since they were all put in the game early and the most fans of any character can do is just hold out for another eventual maybe alt that's actually usable which may never even come. The only thing IS can really do from a unit release standpoint is release alts to rehash heroes who they know are popular or powercreep to force you to spend for gameplay.

24
andrewd96•

Well it's not like they just released a popular best-selling brand new game with a brand new cast. Almost tailor made to sell units in Heroes. But nope more Tellius shillery.

-1†
theprodigy64Team Female Morgan•

lol the Tellius banners have generally been the better performers this year

15
Soren319Eirika (Graceful Resolve)•

Because the Tellius are beasts and they were something new and more ridiculous powercreep in the form of how little drawbacks you get for being untransformed along with unique abilities depending on movement type.

An actual human Tellius banner would probably be just as mediocre in sales as everything else nowadays.

-8†
theprodigy64Team Female Morgan•

Then why did a) the Fates beast banner do worse b) other powercreep in general has very spotty correlation with actually performing well (looking at you, Thrasir/duo Ephraim).

12
BoulderdorfAnnette•

I will say this, some people claim that skills/meta relevancy are the primary motivations for people to pull, but D!Ephraim's banner really didn't make that much money.

You can also see this with the performance between the two 3H banners. The first one had characters who are effectively at the top of their class, while the second had really only one meta hero (Hilda), but Changing Winds managed to outperform the Lords banner since people actually knew the characters by then. Character popularity is definitely a factor.

15
tsuky94Team Legendary Ryoma•

It's hard to say what prompts the spending sometimes. Ephraim is a very popular character after all, and Altina was more successful than a lot of the other hugely popular legendary lords we got that were highly anticipated this year. I agree that character seems to be more important than skills in general, but meta relevancy is a big factor as well.

EDIT: clarification

7
Soren319Eirika (Graceful Resolve)•
  1. Altina is an astra mythic hero that is a lot more helpful than Naga to score high in Astra season.

  2. Altinas money is skewed. She was released the same day that three different Black Friday deals were put up for sale. We can never know how well her banner would do without that, and saying Altina sold so well by herself can’t be taken seriously. L!Roy, Close Counter, whatever currency those deals had should be taken seriously as those deals were definitely worth the money.

6
BoulderdorfAnnette•

It's definitely convoluted, and it's not really worth it to try and figure out the formula behind banner sales. You have cases like the 3H banners where character popularity trumped meta-relevancy. You also have cases like the first two beast banners, with the the more powerful Tellius set outperforming the Fates set, despite some of the Fates beasts being the highest-ranking CYL characters not in the game at the time. All that can be seen is that the highest-ranking months this year have had a good mix of popular characters, meta-relevant characters, and a mythic or legendary banner mixed in somewhere.

1
Mr_CreedHector (Marquess of Ostia)•

I spent money on the Altina banner and didn't even pull red, just blue and colorless. Just saying that the new hero is not the only reason such a banner gets traffic.

1
MichaelCappelli•

But that would be consistent with the meta-defining logic. (for the sacred stones banner at least) I would have expected the Sacred Stones banner to do badly because none of the units were meta defining. Ephraim is great because he kills almost everything that's popular in Arena, but he's a duo hero (which is highly disliked right now due to the blatant cash-grabbiness) the other units all came with inheritable weapons (granted some of them are the 1st time we're seeing them) But then like Tethys just comes with cleaner+? The cleaner was the title of Legault so it made sense on him but like...What happened there?

Ewan's a 5* lock and is drawn as a fire mage but he comes with a serpent tome? Gerik has the firesweep axe? He's a sword mercenary. Like none of their builds or weapons made any sense with the character. It was super wonky and I love Sacred Stones so of course I had to pull, but I understood everyone's confusion and lack of interest.\

The rest of what you said I completely agree. I.S. seems to have trouble releasing heroes that people want and then they are surprised when sales are down?

Where's Anna? Where's Jill? Why'd they screw over Haar? They're just masters at upsetting the fans. -That's why their sales are down.

3
Clerics4LifeBarst•

let's be real Archanea, Echoes, Sacred Stones with less girls? Who spends money on this? not to mention how we got Tellius shove to us every months

Or you know, literally any of the banners that didn't have anyone from the Top 100, not to mention the throwaway GHB units that did place in the Top 100.

All the popular characters are free or not added

Sales decline

Surprised Pikachu

10
tsuky94Team Legendary Ryoma•

If you look at this revenue chart, the biggest culprit is AR, as the game saw a pretty significant drop in revenue after its introduction in November 2018 and hasn't recovered since, even with IS pushing all sorts of powerful skills and units.

48
Kirumi4lyfe•

Surtr banner happened at the same, one of the most infamous powercreep unit. I actually had some friends who quit because they hate to see a trash tier written OC powercreep fan favorites (L!Hector and B!Ephraim) within half a year.

41
tsuky94Team Legendary Ryoma•

That's understandable, and applicable in a broader sense. A lot of units that were added at launch/early were there because they are fan favorites, so it's pretty irritating to see them getting powercrept ten different times in this day and age.

26
BlueDestinationIke (Vanguard Legend)•

Adding on to that, even though BST increase means very little in actual situations, it still creates a precedent where IS is just increasing the power budget a new unit gets. I've seen so many PRF weapons with +4 to all stats lately along with BST Totals and min-maxed stats that I feel no real attachment to the game outside of personal goals. The many systems that could actually help out with this sentiment turned out to be merely band-aids like dragonflowers (which new units are able to use along with their min-maxed statlines) and refines ( which can range from useless to amazing).

20
tsuky94Team Legendary Ryoma•

Right. I've seen the "BST means nothing" argument a lot, and in addition to what you've said, it's very unit-dependent. If a unit only cares about their ATK, then they won't feel the powercreep as much as say, the DC units, who need all stats. Dragonflower's implementation was terrible, and I really hope they don't plan to leave it as is.

Refines are... complicated. Aside from the "even refines are getting outdated" problem and the snail pace of four a month, they can also be tricky when it comes to what the target audience of the refine is, especially with 5 star exclusives. Is it to get people to pull/use a unit that has been benched? Or is it for the fans of those characters who already have the unit at +10? For example, Mia's refine is one that caters more toward those who already have her at high merges because the unmerged, neutral SPD Mia sitting in my barracks does not have the SPD to fully take advantage of this effect when I'm trying to use her against +10 units in AA, and that's not even getting into whether doing some more damage is what Mia needed to find a niche. So she sits there, same as before. A refine, when it's possibly the only thing to redeem an old unit, should strive to appeal to both groups.

8
WestColMia•

Free Eir, Hero Fest with Eir to easily snipe a second copy, bonus character = 160 Lift per offense win.

"Cancer" units being free Brave Lyn, Brave Veronica, 3 star Reinhardt.

I wonder why AR made less money than Arena making people whale for 11 copies of 170, than 175 than 180 BST armors.

You can actually start Aether Raids today and get 160/320 lift per offense win with free copies of Eir and Peony.

Meanwhile Arena changes just shit on a lot of F2P players in regards to T21.

It's rather telling that they're trying to monetize Mythic Heroes a year later with MS. where you now need 44 copies of each season Mythic to score the highest.

Now add in general decline in a game and that's why it dropped.

Dragalia Lost has fallen off a cliff in a 3rd of time that FEH has been out.

14
tsuky94Team Legendary Ryoma•

It's not just about AR making less money than arena because if that were the case, we would only see a lack of growth, not a decline; it's not like arena disappeared and AR took its place. The problem is that AR actively pushed people away from the game (for reasons that I included in another comment).

26
Mr_CreedHector (Marquess of Ostia)•

Dragalia Lost has fallen off a cliff in a 3rd of time that FEH has been out.

DL has a different problem though, there's no reason to shell out much money in that game. There never was. FEH basically demands your money with a new pvp mode every 6 months, but people are shrugging it off.

In DL I'm sitting on every Gala character without ever spending money on actual wyrmite pulls (I do the daily discounted pull every day, that's it). They need to step up their monetization, while FEH needs to chill the fuck out with it.

9
Golden-OwlAzama•

The AR change does benefit casual players a lot though. Players that never really cared about making T21 every week don’t mind having an easier arena life

2†
HereComesJusticeHaar•

Now that's interesting

That would be considered a huge failure in their eyes if AR is the reason for the negative growth

8
tsuky94Team Legendary Ryoma•

Yeah. I enjoy AR most of the time, but the fact is the majority of players don't.

I lurk in a couple Chinese forums where some front page whales and those who know them frequently visit, and they said that AR, when it was first introduced, was widely unappealing to two groups: very casual players who treated FEH as mostly a collectible game where you spoil your favorites, and some whales at the very top. The first group is pretty easy to understand, but the thing with some whales is that they initially disliked AR precisely because it wasn't P2W enough. Before Mythics, there was no easy way to get ahead by spending money. So if you mess up, it was very unforgiving, and for top whales, missing out on chairs/crowns is unacceptable. They introduced Mythics later and some whales returned, but the damage was done and they also managed to anger the players who didn't appreciate the attempt at cash-grabbing. The introduction of some blatantly unfair units like L!Alm, FF!Corrin, and L!Julia also didn't help.

Anyway, it's pretty interesting to navigate the world of whales sometimes and see their takes. In my experience, this sub's negativity about the game is honestly pretty tame. The folks over there are quite savage in their remarks.

EDIT: clarification

45
HereComesJusticeHaar•

Very interesting perspective but it makes sense.

8
BoulderdorfAnnette•

This is actually similar to why Dragalia is slipping farther and farther.

You can whale as much as you want in that game for meta heroes (cough Gleo), but it doesn't make the grind any easier. There's no way to just p2w-muscle through endgame content with your team of broken units, since hDTs are still hard and frustrating enough that you're still gonna have to put in hours of time to get through it. It's probably why a lot of casual whales have since dropped it. On top of that, there's no other "vanity" system like a costume gacha, the shop packages kind of suck, and rolling dupes basically just gives you the equivalent of a bunch of feathers and nothing else. These games need to have a good enough monetization system to strike a balance between P2W and F2P-Friendly.

29
MichaelCappelli•

Agreed, I don't mind having a pay gap in this game. You wanna chill and just play casually? Cool, the game rewards you for the amount of involvement you choose to have. You wanna pay 1000.00 per month to get all the new heros to +10? There's a reward for that.

2
lcelerateMicaiah•

That simply means it's impossible to please everyone. Make the game P2W, you upset people but if you don't, you still upset people. Catch 22.

2
Nemisis_212Dimitri •

Honestly they should see it as a failure. Cause AR the moment it was announced was met with so much hope and positivity. It was our answer to "Whens PvP" maps and "I want to do more in arena". Yet they killed it so fast when they introduced the scoring system was heavily reliant on Mythic Heroes and Merges. It was mostly the Merges that imo killed it. Having one or two Mythic hero of each typing isn't horrible you save a few orbs for that. Having to Merge them to high levels in order to continually be competitive along with not even trying to balance AR with a limitation list (Like 1 dancer per team) etc. Is really what people just blew up over it imo.

20
HereComesJusticeHaar•

Yup tying mythics too heavily to this mode was a bad idea.

I bet that's why they made mjolnirs strike tie to mythic as well, it's to give the Mythic heros more value to the player. Especially to those that don't really care for AR

9
WestColMia•

140 Lift a win without spending any money and/or orbs on Eir's Hero fest and/or legendary banners was more than enough to get into Tier 21.

There was no incentive to spend on AR compared to Arena.

3†
HereComesJusticeHaar•

What about tier 27 tho

What about Astra season

I can make tier 21 arena and stay on some weeks, whereas it's mathematically impossible to do the above in AR without going thru mythic banners

2
Mr_CreedHector (Marquess of Ostia)•

We can discuss symptons until we are blue in the face, but the core issue is that IS is treating this game as a low-effort cash cow.

That is not something you solve on the systems design level. Their designers might make some questionable choices now and then, but the resources they can work with are allocated from higher up in the company. Unless top management dictates a shift in how they approach this game, what we have now is what we'll keep getting.

For myself I can say that what we're getting is not worth continued investment. I used to spend a good penny regularly up to mid-2018, but FEH just doesn't evolve enough, doesn't provide enough depth in the long run, to earn my money (funny enough DL is the opposite, I'd spend more there but don't feel the need to do so since the game drowns you in free shit).

35
VaximillianTeam Sharena•

IS is treating this game as a low-effort cash cow.

Nintendo is treating this game as a low-effort cash cow.

12
Mr_CreedHector (Marquess of Ostia)•

When both the developer and the publisher, IS and Nintendo, do that... we shouldn't be surprised by the mediocre result I guess?

Make no mistake though, IS makes the game. They don't get to shift blame to their publisher and wash their hands of the shortcomings of their product.

20
icksqSakura•

I'm replying just to give this more visibility. This is all it is.

They don't put anything in, they won't get anything out (of me). Poetic justice.

6
NotSuluXEliwood (Legendary Hero)•

Its just never worth it to pay for this. Orbs have no value unless you actually get 5* units (luck dependant) and there is a huge chance you dont get what you wanted. There is a decent chance that you pay 70 bucks and get nothing.

DUO heroes are such obvious cashgrabs its pretty disgusting. Whoever thought that we needed those besides exclusive legendary heroes should be fired. But in all honesty.... every banner except legendary banners is worthless. It doesnt matter what new characters get released, how good their skills or their weapons are when you can only increase scores in most modes by getting more legendary or mythic hero copies. No other way. AR and such are fun modes but you can never use new units anyway (pretty much only those that fit a certain niche), so why bother.

24
Nemisis_212Dimitri •

There is a decent chance that you pay 70 bucks and get nothing.

I feel like thats true for almost every gacha game tho

26
Soren319Eirika (Graceful Resolve)•

It is, and Heroes isn’t one that should receive this complaint.

Games like FGO and other 1% gachas have this happen all the time to people, even $140 and up with no pity system.

You won’t spend $140 on Heroes and receive nothing.

21
RollyPollyGiraffeTeam Hector•

You won’t spend $140 on Heroes and receive nothing.

​

You should tell that to the people who have spent that equivalent in orbs (approx 260) and received nothing. It has happened - and even more often will large orb/money counts lead to getting something awful instead.

13
Soren319Eirika (Graceful Resolve)•

It happens rarely and at the end of the day, you will break that pity rate. Precisely because a pity rate exists.

FGO doesn’t have one. That’s the difference here. There’s no guarantee you will ever get anything whatsoever from a single banner.

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Alexmender875Hilda•

I can think of a few factors that made the game fall off in terms of revenue when compared to when it released:

1- Powercreep. While I'm of the mind that this game hasn't had that much in terms of true powercreep (For me only Ayra/Surtr/Fallen F!Corrin+F! Young Tiki/Beasts are the ones that pushed the power ceiling up, everything else tends to be people overreacting), people already have the notion that this game releases powercreep every new banner which means not a lot of people are going to even bother to try if they can't catch up.

2- Lack of resources. This is deeply connected to point 1. Despite what I said about powercreep, new players are at a huge disadvantage when it comes to all the currencies used in the game. Sacred Coins/Refining stones/AR stones/feathers/etc. Veteran players don't feel this because they already are at a point where they have basically everything at their disposal but for newbies it is very daunting when they start at nothing and the climb can be quite painful which leads to them quitting after not too long. You could argue that they are in a better spot because they have a large amount of orbs and newer banners offer stronger units for them, but they really aren't when you factor seals/refines. This creates a huge rift between players and gets amplified when factoring the powercreep heavy perception people have about FEH.

3- Lack of content. This one is a little weird. FEH has tons of game modes which range from Arena to stuff like Tap battle. However, outside of the PvP modes, everything tends to be a one and done type of stuff. This makes FEH a wonderful secondary game because it doesn't ask for a lot of time (AR and AA aside) but this also means that it isn't as engaging as stuff like FGO/GBF which leads to people spending less than on those games.

There's more issues plaguing the game like a lack of interactivity with the heroes and the story being super barebones, but I think the 3 I mentioned above are the biggest ones.

19
HereComesJusticeHaar•

There are currencies that honestly don't make sense anymore

Who cares about sacred coins and refining stones just let players upgrade what they want to.

Nobody is going to get upset because Little Jimmy's Barst has an atk refined Slaying Axe

Nobody cares if everyone has lvl 3 seals for every sacred seal

And nobody cares if someone's Linde has Aura, Dark Aura and all of their refines

I understand why they do it but it really is just harming new players, vets dgaf but Imagine a new player joins, pulls on the banner with weapon refines then finds out they need 200 dew to actually use the cool part of the weapon. I'd be pretty turned off as there is no grind able way to get divine dew.

39
Soren319Eirika (Graceful Resolve)•

Hey man, we had to play for a while without refines, little Jimmy can wait a bit.

/s

8
MaelikMordecai•

How else can the keep selling the monthly packs with dew, coins, refining stones, etc.? :)

6
pureauthor•

Forcing new players to pay the Sacred Coins to make Seals that older players already got for free was just an extra slap in the face.

6
esn_crvgChoose Your Legends Champion•

How Lazura didn't push powercreep? To this day they have yet to make a more effective dancer

14
Mr_CreedHector (Marquess of Ostia)•

3- Lack of content.

Imo this is bigger than this sub makes it out to be. Let's be honest, our events here are pretty barebones and the same deal every month. And all of those recurring events can be auto'd to near max rewards in a fraction of their duration. It's nostalgia for sure, but I look back favorably on the 2017 TTs where I actually had to put up a fight.

13
killerpanda3Micaiah (Brave Echoes)•

The way I see the lack of content isn't in game modes or anything like that (not like they aren't an issue though), but instead I look at it as a lack of content to explore the game.

The worst offender in my eyes is the limited customization of heroes. Sure they release new heroes, but new skills only really come out like 3 or 4 a month. With them being locked to 5* people who can't or don't want to summon for a single fodder, those heroes and skills just end up being useless to a large number of people.

I think the most excited I've been in this game was when inherit skills was first announced. I instantly started thinking about all the possible ways to build my favorites. Now we're years in and by and large people still have the exact same pool of skills to build units with as when skill inheritance was first released. When I get a new unit I don't have access to all the top tier skills so more than likely I'll just default to the basic fury, desperation, life and death, etc. since I have those in spades. Maybe have a rotation of 5* heroes instead of the current system, I don't know IS is in a rough spot and it definitely feels like they're struggling to compensate with things like new game modes.

3
MichaelCappelli•

I don't even mind powercreep. I don't find that the new skills or heroes outperform my old heroes so badly that I can't overcome them. What I can't stand is the constant release of heroes....that have skills, which just seem to be a vehicle for I.S. to check off their "added to the 4* pool" boxes.

It seems like a compulsion for them. Like honestly, who ever gave a shit if Blue tome breaker ever got released? It's irrelevant at this point.

Why even waste time finishing off the serpent/fox tomes in the 5 star pool? Leave those for the 4* units that you add directly to the pool and PLEASE stop giving those units brave weapons.

Like any single person playing this game would slap the person making that decision right in the face as they were thinking it, so why do they do it? Why not give Ross a wo-dao? Or at least a slaying axe? Same thing with Haar, and Python and Valbar and the list goes on. At least Echidna's axe is unique to her for now. I've said it elsewhere in this thread, what's with Tethys getting The Cleaner+? These decisions also make it more difficult for new players to get started because the 4+ units they are getting, don't even have the right weapon equipped, let alone the proper skills. It would be enough to drive any new player crazy.

I remember when I first started, never having played a skill-based fire emblem before, thinking fury was so bad because it took away your hp...I could only imagine what someone thinks when they see Brave Axe's effect and think "ooo, that's really good."

12
GrotesqueHumanityZephiel•

Your point 3 is pretty much what it has become for me. I actively play E7 all day long, if only for arena, trying not to fall behind, all while devoting well under 60 minutes to FEH.

GHB will likely require about 15 minutes later today with nothing else but stupid Forging Bonds autobattle to do.

4
esn_crvgChoose Your Legends Champion•

It is actually a point in FEH's favor. Screw endless grinding.

17
NinetyNineTailsRobin (Fell Vessel)•

I stopped playing E7 last week 'cause I couldn't keep up with the time demands, particularly compared to FEH.

9
BoulderdorfAnnette•

I'm honestly glad Feh has stayed relatively low-commitment compared to other gachas. For a lot of these other games, people describe them as basically a second job, and if I really wanted to spend hours playing a game I'd rather boot up my switch or an emulator or something.

16
kaiserzeitCordelia (Resplendent Heroes)•

I'm actually kind of surprised that DL isn't even top 100. Taking in account it's only available in a couple other countries I can't imagine it's doing that well in sales.

But back to FEH, they have taken some positive steps lately like the pre-demotes, but they just can't put out another fun mode, everything besides Hall of Forms has been really dull.

Hopefully something cool happens in the anniversary, especially regarding old units and/or divine codes.

13
Mr_CreedHector (Marquess of Ostia)•

I'm actually kind of surprised that DL isn't even top 100. Taking in account it's only available in a couple other countries I can't imagine it's doing that well in sales.

They don't make players spend. For a very flat comparison to FEH, you only need a character once, have no SI, and only need a dragon 5x while even earning "merge tickets" in events.

8
Ars-Tomato•

They haven’t done anything to earn a better ranking or revenue in a while for FEH. They need to shake things up drastically or it’ll only keep a downward trend

12
AgahnimDGaron•

Next Banner:

OOPS, ALL POWERCREEP BRIDES

10
Igneous4224Camilla (A Sketchy Summer)•

I have a lot of thoughts about why the revenue has even falling and I'll probably post that in a bit. But first an unpopular opinion:

I think that fact that people are being downvoted for even suggesting that it could have to do with the banners this year. While, I don't personally k that's the case I don't think it was last year either. Even so, people blamed last year's downward trends on alts, male/female ratio, Fates banners and every time any revenue reports people pointed at the banner characters and said "see?"

Now we're a year later and at least the bigger of those "issues" has been addressed. Aside from the Hot Springs Banner which was really early, we got some alts of popular units but more spread out and got a lot more characters from non Fates/Awakening as both new unit banners and seasonals. Yet the game did worse this year, but people won't even entertain the idea that the banners could have anything to do with it, and if someone does they get downvoted.

Seriously there is an aspect of this subreddit that has become super toxic. It's sad because I remember early on people loved this community because the normal FE Reddit had a bad reputation, but I think this one has become just as bad, if not worse.

Granted, some of the post getting downvoted are worded terribly and probably deserve it just based on the way they were delivered. However, some are just suggesting an idea that clashes with some people narratives so they just get downvoted.

10
PathofGaydianceFerdinand•

No you're completely right! I can't speak for anyone but myself but if the seasonals haven't been packed with Tellius this year, I wouldn't have summoned from CYL3 onward at all. This year has had so many easy skip banners.

I can't remember the last new AWAKENING unit they added, that's still by far the most popular FE. Only one dedicated Fates banner and two 3H banners? This whole year has seemed like a Farfetched banner

edit: Forgot about the Awakening 2nd gen banner sorry but my statement still stands

8
no1_evangelion_fanKlein•

I spent a lot of money on this game (around usd 13k). But when they made arena a chore I eventually stopped caring. Coupled with frustrating heroes like flyzura and surtr. Arena just got too bothersome - so the only reason for my spending disappeared. I spent almost nothing in 2019. The most enjoyment I get out of this game now is triple hectoring people in AR.

Haven't bothered entering arena for months now. Feathers are at max so who cares.

Lastly. We are 3 years+ in and they still have no pity/ guarantee system on banners. In my previous whaling. Sometimes I've been up to 13 off banner pity breakers in a row. If they want to encourage whales or dolphins, or maybe just that one time guy who's favourite characters are up. They might wanna sort that shit out and put a guarantee mechanic in there. Every 100 summons or something like that throw a guarantee ticket. So that certain spenders don't feel like they got fkd by rng and have massive spending regret.

6
rashy05Mamori•

DL not being in Top 100 is understandable considering it's relatively new and is just another Gacha game from Cygames. Another Cygames IP, Priconne, was in a similar position a year ago and now it's their 2nd most popular gacha game.

Also, IS giving less and less incentive to spend on their units. With the rapid rate of powercreep, it's better to just wait on the next Duo unit since that gives out a lot of points rather than spend on the Legendaries and Mythics whose Arena point value has been crept by the Duos. On the topic of legendaries, they introduced pair-up and made it exclusive to certain legendary heroes but also made it useless by making it useable in modes where the stakes doesn't matter, like, at all.

This is probably why they're doing the same for Mythics with the +10 merge point bonus for the bonus Mythic in the season. They want people to spend more on Mythics.

5
BlueDestinationIke (Vanguard Legend)•

Dragalia Lost is also pretty anti-whale from my experience. There's no merging system outside of 5* Dragons, which you can merge by a material that albeit is rare, can be obtained by F2P means. Summoning is plentiful enough that you can obtain a plethora of 5*, all without spending a dime. This also means that money isn't flowing in, but you do establish a sense of loyalty in the base that's useful for maintaining the game and potential surges later on.

13
Amadeus_SalieriOPJulia•

Another Cygames IP, Priconne, was in a similar position a year ago and now it's their 2nd most popular gacha game.

Priconne was just above of FEH at #25 last year. Granted that last year, Priconne started in February compared to DL being in September.

2
Nemisis_212Dimitri •

But whats the relation between JP sales and Western (Global) Sales. Cause if Western (Global) Sales offset the avenue slump in JP market then this issue is kinda a non-starter.

4
tsuky94Team Legendary Ryoma•

Japan makes up around 60% of the total revenue.

14
theprodigy64Team Female Morgan•

Eh, Nintendo themselves and App Annie suggest Sensor Tower has that too high. Still, Japan is definitely the single largest country revenue wise.

(also Japan and US are showing mostly similar downward trends anyway)

6
tsuky94Team Legendary Ryoma•

Thanks for the clarification. And yeah, I don't see why spending patterns would significantly differ in the US compared to Japan anyway.

4
Soren319Eirika (Graceful Resolve)•

different memes for different characters

5
FeroleSquareSoleil•

If we talk about sales dropping, we first need to ask a question : how much whales weigh ?

Because if whales make up for, let's say, 80% of sales and other player make for the remaining 20%. Then we can assume that whales are either dropping the game or not spending as much/at all. So IS should ask themselves why.

​

And another question I have for everyone is : Does the sales reflect the qualities of a game?

Hell no, we are on a Fire Emblem subreddit, some FE really did poorly but are great games ( Radiant Dawn i'm looking at you )

So in the case of feh : is the game really worse than it was 2 years ago?

Personnal opinion here : no, it's better now, even tho it could be WAY better. And if IS would stop chasing money ( wich is impossible ), the game would be even better. Because I would say ¥ 4.47 billion (37 million €/ 41 million $) is enought to be satisfied with.

3
gaming_whateverMist•

Does the sales reflect the qualities of a game?

No, but the public opinion is important too. Dragalia may not bring tons of money, but the players generally love the game and are supportive of the game's management. FEH players are ready to pitchfork IS at the moment's notice, and they won't be wrong given the track record. This is an important aspect of the game's "quality" or rather health.

10
FeroleSquareSoleil•

In wich perspective is it important ?

For the player of course you want to like the game you are playing, you want to have fun.

But for Nintendo's direction is it really that important? I'm sure if they can make the game more fun they will do it, but it's a side quest for them as they main objective is money ( like every company ).

I know you will say that public opinion might impact sales but I would argue that's not always true and they know how to go with this.

1
gaming_whateverMist•

Not going to argue their intentions here. My thoughts are more of: can we really call a gacha game a good/great game if few people want to play it? Radiant Dawn suffered from bad management, but eventually pulled through because it was a finished product that people are largely happy about. An ongoing game, like FEH, may get better on some gameplay issues with time, but is the majority of players becoming truly happier playing it or does the bad management/decisions keep upsetting them? If the second part is solved, FEH can be counted in "good" games, even if sales don't grow.

2
FeroleSquareSoleil•

On this point I totally agree with you, as long as the players are happy playing it, then the game can be called good at least, and sales don't matter.

I just wish producing a good game was enough for IS and Nintendo.

1
Amadeus_SalieriOPJulia•

Yes, Radiant Dawn is a great game indeed... The poor sales is just a result of poor marketing decisions by Intelligent Systems back then. I mean, it is REALLY not a good idea that Radiant Dawn was released at the same time as Super Mario Galaxy. IS had gotten better at marketing strategy since, well, Fire Emblem Awakening. Thus, the infamous line, "Awakening saved the franchise", exists.

Back to FEH, yes, this game's quality had gotten better in general compared to its release. That revenue is actually pretty good overall, just only being outside of Top 50... but that can be a worrying point for the mobile gaming department of Nintendo, especially in comparison to that of last year for FEH as Nintendo's most profitable mobile game by far. This is especially true in the case of Dragalia Lost. Expectations had to be met after all and at the end of the day, mobile gaming industry is also a business.

2
Venriik•

IS missed the chance to ride the hype train of Three Houses. We barely got two banners of that game, and at least I expected and feared lots and lots of new characters in Heroes coming from Three Houses. I mean, they even have canon alts for each of them as well, and some people are still waiting for some of them (I'm saving orbs for future Dimitri).

People also loved Lif, but he's also nowhere to be seen yet. I was certain we would get him as soon as Book III ended, but here we are. Missed opportunities.

2†
LuxocellMordecai•

ded game

2
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
MisterKongTibarn•

Important to note that you're talking about JP-region data here. US/global data are interesting as well, because, while revenue is still trending downwards, the overall ranking of the game is higher (less gacha competition over here). I don't know is that makes FEH's future more promising, or if it just means this is a market ripe for a good new gacha to come make some profits.

1
Amadeus_SalieriOPJulia•

Ranking doesn't matter for the developers and the publishers. The game's revenue does.

Also, I'll borrow one of the comments on that thread I put here for that matter about the Western mobile game market and the Japan one.

We have to remember that the gacha world is an ENTIRELY different beast over in Japan than it is in the West. Games that have already died and shut down in global are still up and running (and very profitable) over in Japan, even though they're not in the Top 30 there either. People spend a shit ton of money on gacha games in Japan. Like a #30 game over there would easily be in the Top 5 in the US if we compare revenue. Or alternatively, a Top 100 game over in Japan would be in the bottom Top 30 in the US as well lol

6
guedesbrawlSakura (Hostile Springs)•

I think the big culprits are the lack of significant new game modes for people to sink their teeths into, the lack of a good story campaign (even if feh's been improving a LOT, it's still bordering mediocre), and the rather poor selection of banner focuses.

Like, we got a lot of weird unpopular seasonals like Tanith this year. I feel like IS shot itself in the foot with Mythic Heroes because they are almost never going to generate the same hype Legendary Heroes do.

But more importantly, each banner that passes makes the following for a given game less interesting as more and more popular characters get chosen.

There is one solution to this problem imo which is giving us popular alts again. People don't wanna hear it, but that's the biggest difference between Book 2 and Book 3 banners. In Book 2 the most hype characters were usually the alts like Flying Nino and Horse Chrom. Book 3's best new heroes banner ended up being just Fallen Heroes.

As long as alts are handled like Ylissean Travelers and the last SoV banner, where we get four banner units with only one alt, I think everyone would be fine. Book 3 was upsetting for some but if you think about it, most alts came in banners with only 2 legit new units, with one usually being meh so it could demote.

0†
shaginusKiria•

a lots says about Powercreep

I hardly disagree and It's more on a characters being added

a lots of banner lately considered "good" by Reddit but the revenue didn't answer as much as when they do "bad" banner

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