Source
r/WindowsMR•
simply_potato

For the love of all that is good and holy, please fix 60hz mode to NOT downsample visuals!

This is ridiculous! Games look god awful in 60hz mode because of the subsampling being applied. Either make it 2 separate options, or just remove the downsample and let it render at native res!

How many times do we have to ask for this?

EDIT: It only affects post-1809 Win10 builds. Also, I have found some cases where steamvr is able to override the subsampling. The best way to test is to look around cliff house after switching and see if the aliasing is worse. Its probably only really noticable on Reverb and maybe Ody+.

Posted Jan 14, 2020, 3:50 AM UTC · edited

5752
dte1980•

I agree with your request for a fix in regards to the 60hz mode.

I value a stable experience, and as an owner of an HP Reverb and an Odyssey+ (it's still working...sometimes), I rather play a game at native 2880x1600 at 60 frames per second if I can't maintain the 90. Especially so with the 4320x2160 HP Reverb, 60fps stable is far more manageable at that resolution than 90fps being a stuttering mess going from 90 to 60 to 45, etc;

I have not built a machine to handle the HP Reverb yet, but I am working on it.

Hopefully they take this continued feedback seriously and provide us with native resolution only, it seems easier to just remove the subsampling and downsampling entirely, and only have native resolution.

10
simply_potatoOP•

Even if you have a machine that can handle it (like my 1080ti), some games are just poorly optimized and CPU bound, like many flight sims and driving sims. In these cases 60hz mode is a godsend, except that MS screwed it up on anything after build 1809

2
GunSlingerAUS•

I only spent 150 hours trying to get smooth VR. Maybe I should try some more.

1
Godislove4u•

Is this a problem with wmr software or steamvr ? I have a odyssey first gen and was wondering the difference in a reverb and your preference ? Will it work with a 1070 ?

1
AlexBoy911•

Personally, I don't see any sub-sampling on 60Hz, looks the same as on 90Hz.

Do you have any links to confirm this information?

8
V8O•

Same here. HP Reverb. Windows Insider build. No difference in visuals between 60Hz and 90Hz.

5
BASGTA•

Isn't it just a frame cap essentially?

2
jackjt8Lenovo Explorer•

Unfortunately not. There are many reports of reduced FOV among other issues.

1
simply_potatoOP•

In 1809, yes thats all it does, and its very useful. In anything post-1809 it also applies downsampling which results in poor visuals on better headsets like the Reverb

1
simffb•

In a sense. It's a way of getting a smoother experience in very demanding games. But it causes problems to some people making the option unavailable in practice.

0
KenjiFox•

That's because they have separated the settings on the insider build as of 20H1. You ARE getting the full quality at 60Hz. Any builds prior, and you got a hot mess of low quality whenever you selected 60Hz.

They originally targeted integrated graphics with that setting. Now they changed it up since 60Hz while maintaining all other quality aspects is a very useful thing. I do this physically with an HDMI 1.4 port, so that I can select 90hz and only get 60. This way I can REALLY push my builds in Unity and not get to reprojection failure level as soon. It's a useful tool even on my powerhouse machine.

1
AlexBoy911•

Man, you are a genius! Thanks for advice.

I will try to use a short HDMI-M - HDMI-F cord, which is only v.1.4 compatible to lock at 60Hz.

1
grumbel•

On the Lenovo Explorer 60Hz runs at a lower FOV than 90Hz (90.5° vs 101°), even "Auto" is different with 102°. You can see the values when using hmdq.

I haven't really noticed the difference when actually looking through the headset, but that might simply be due to ~94° being the absolute maximum of what I can get out of the headsets with my eyes in normal use. I haven't yet bothered sticking a GoPro into the thing to see if anything changes. Render target resolution however stays the same.

Another thing I noticed is that the foveated rendering becomes more obvious in 60Hz. But I don't know if this is due to the change in brightness and the flickering or due to there being a changes to the resolution.

Not sure if any of this would impact SteamVR, but a different FOV would change the resolution which in turn could lead to sampling issues. Lots of the past blur issues with WMR/SteamVR were based around some minute resolution differences between headsets after all.

5
AlexBoy911•

Thanks for advise, I will use the tool and share my results.

1
simply_potatoOP•

Its been pretty widely reported. After build 1809, choosing 60hz mode results in obvious aliasing when looking around the cliff house.

2
simffb•

Same. Lenovo Explorer. It seems to be brand dependent.

Also, I managed to update to 1909 this weekend and immediately noticed a more "squarerish" and reduced FOV, so I rolled back to 1809. I didn't noticed any subsampling but I didn't look for it, but maybe it could depend on win version as well.

I suggest downgrading the holographic driver to see if it helps. Also, downgrading WMR for SteamVR.

1
KenjiFox•

My god does the 60Hz setting look bad. Even the windows logo you see upon first starting the headset is so low resolution that it looks like it is covered in JPEG artifacting. It's hard to read anything in the cliffhouse, and the FOV is WAY lower. Jump back and forth a couple of times and look at the clarity of just the initial windows logo. You will see it.

1
TymAtMSFTMSFT - SteamVR•

Hey, I've seen this topic pop up a bunch over the last few months, so I figured it was about time we answered everyone on this! I've posted a longer update here - https://www.reddit.com/r/WindowsMR/comments/eovbc3/lets_talk_about_headset_settings/

tl;dr - You're right, our options weren't great here. A setting that looks like changing frame rate also doing a bunch of other stuff? Seems kinda weird, so we fixed it. Catch is that the refactoring to fix it was too big to take as a normal Windows Update patch, so it'll come with the next major release of Windows (codename "20H1").

5
simply_potatoOP•

Thank you! This will be the first Win10 update I've been happy to have coming with a feature I'll actually use!

1
turbonutter666•

i see no difference between 60 and 90 fidelity wise on my Reverb

2
simply_potatoOP•

Are you on build 1809, or newer Windows 10 builds? It only affects post-1809 builds. Also, I have found some cases where steamvr is able to override the subsampling. The best way to test is to look around cliff house after switching and see if the aliasing is worse

1
SaltySam64•

why would you play on 60 hz?

1
jonathanx37Odyssey+•

Not everybody has the latest and greatest hardware and 90 Hz is just terrible when you can't get anywhere near it. Stability over fluidity in this case

6
SaltySam64•

isn't it considered a bad idea to buy a vr headset if you don't have hardware that is fast enough to play it on?

1
jonathanx37Odyssey+•

Well some not-so-tech-sawwy people will easily buy a WMR following microsoft's minimums and some will buy headsets when they get a good deal/sale and then save up to get the needed specs. Some VR apps and games can run on a 1050 ti just fine on 90 hz while others will do a lot better @ 60 hz. Heck Microsoft lists intel HD in their minimums lol.

TL;DR there's a lot of reasons as to why you shouldn't run VR on lower specs, but if you don't have the option to upgrade right now it's a good alternative.

Personally, I'm very sensitive to Hz on flatscreens and can tell 60 Hz from 75 Hz without side by side comparison but initially my O+ was in 60 Hz mode and I couldn't even tell in my 30 mins gameplay until I checked WMR portal settings. WMR is still viable at 60 Hz if you can't help it. (P.S. O+ was 230 $ in black friday I'd hit that even if I didn't meet specs)

1
SaltySam64•

minimum specs for wmr is 1060. it says so on the box. this can easily run any game in vr on 90 hz. except maybe one of those new games like boneworks.

1
simply_potatoOP•

Flight/driving sims are often single-thread CPU-bound and won't run at 90fps even on a 1080ti.

2
GunSlingerAUS•

Cough DCS cough

1
simply_potatoOP•

Yep... DCS, Xplane, project cars, etc.

2
Dodokoce•

Used to use a GTX 760 to play on my MR and 90hz was unplayable. Kept lagging and freezing but 60hz made it run smooth on 60fps. Its a good alternative if you can't maintain 90 too.

1
SaltySam64•

but you really shouldn't even buy vr with that gpu. even microsoft itself doesn't recommend it

2
Dodokoce•

Yeah, I was going to update to an RTX soon anyway and I wanted to see if VR would even run on it XD Managed to pull off a few streams with it too. Tried Skyrim VR and VRChat on it, these ran fine but games like Beat Sabers barely ran.

1
GunSlingerAUS•

Even with a 5GHz 9700K and RTX 2080 Ti overclocked by 10%, DCS struggles to hit 60fps on low gfx settings with my Reverb.

1
SaltySam64•

what are you talking about? i have a ryzen 1600x and 1070 and max all that shit on 90 hz no problemo

1
GunSlingerAUS•

Oh God, here we go again...

0
SaltySam64•

dude you can’t come at me with a blatant lie and then say “oh god here we go again” when i call you out on it

1
SouljAx360•

60hz mode needs a few fixes. The default resolution needs to be higher or configurable. FOV changes need to be optional instead of mandatory. And most importantly as far as I'm concerned is to fix that bug where certain objects being rendered have the 3D effect messed up and the kind of blur as you turn your head. I heard that was fixed in Insider builds but it'd be nice if it was fixed in 1909 too.

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
KenjiFox•

Your request here has been heard, and it is fixed as of now. The upcoming windows 20H1 includes separated settings for this.

As for a workaround you can use on your current build of windows, simply plug your headset into an HDMI port that cannot provide more than 60Hz at that resolution. a $7 display port to HDMI 1.4 adapter from Amazon will give you exactly what you desire. 60Hz with maximum quality.

​

Edit* If you want this now, jump on the fast ring build for Windows Insiders.

1
simply_potatoOP•

and it is fixed as of now.

Technically not really, not until 20H1 is actually released as stable. I am very glad its coming though, I saw the post from MSFT.

a $7 display port to HDMI 1.4 adapter from Amazon will give you exactly what you desire.

Won't work right with Reverb, but I can wait on build 1809 until 20H1 is actually out.

1
GunSlingerAUS•

Dcs. That was the whole point. Of course simpler games hit 90

1
engagetoaster•

You want to feel bad about WMR home clarity? Go to Steam VR bigscreen menu and hit WMR windows button to bring up the WMR menu. It is crystal clear as it uses the rendering resolution of Steam VR. It's so sharp. Wish I could get that sampling to stick in the home.

1