Furious restaurant owners want apology from Dr. Bonnie Henry over New Year's Eve rule change
bc.ctvnews.ca/mobile/furious-restaurant-owner...
bc.ctvnews.caPosted Jan 11, 2021, 3:56 AM UTC
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bc.ctvnews.calol
Sorry, but we learned from Halloween that people aren't responsible.
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I'm not arguing against the ban, I don't even think restaurants or schools should be opened at all, but if they learned it on October 31 why did it take until December 30th to announce it?
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Because just like Halloween, just like any other holiday people would find a way to bend the rules with enough time and gather in groups larger than allowed. Hopefully that shows in lower numbers soon
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For you doomers I don’t think any number will be satisfactory. Zero just means wait two weeks.
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And for you anti-maskers all we have is a big fuck off.
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Like wasn't the change just they had to stop serving alcohol 2 hours earlier?
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Which is a pretty massive thing.
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I know a place that had to phone every reservation and let them know. 28/29 cancelled on the spot.
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Many of us don’t really think so. She herself said that if it wasn’t worth it without alcohol, rebook and celebrate on the 1st... it’s not like they were going to be serving their New Years alcohol at midnight anyways.
People are speculating hard, curious how many places actually lost more than half their reservations.
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Many of you probably don’t have hospitality experience or know just what goes into prepping for a big night like NYE. Its not about it being worth it but a lot of people probably changed reservations and then when they couldn’t get a spot, cancelled. Or just didn’t show up.
If you have reservations for 100, and you order food for 100 and staff for 100 and then all of a sudden only 50 show up then you are going to lose a lot of money.
Im not arguing against the 8pm cutoff. Im arguing about how it was handled.
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Is it even responsible to be seating 100 people in a pandemic?
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I get that... I said I’m curious what % people actually didn’t show up. You used 50% as an example, you think that many people would cancel just from no alcohol?
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So at our bar(s, we have two of them on the same block), we would normally have a cover for New Year's Eve, and stay open until 2 am. We would normally sell tickets to pay the cover and use the cover to pay for the extra security and entertainment (normally a band and a trio of DJs).
One of our bars tracked the covers in a system I can check: it was $475. At 5 dollars a head, that's 95 people. Assume each of those 95 people spends $60 on food or drinks (a commenter below said that was the low end estimate, so let's use that). That's $5,700. Times that by two. $11,400. Then your cover charges. $12,350. But add on to that, those people are going to tip the staff. Those people are taking cabs. Those people are staying in hotels instead of going home. It's hard to understate the economic damage, at a minimum, that was done by shutting things down.
Here's the thing, though; it was 100% the right decision. I even spoke to one of the bar managers and he said "I hate New Year's Eve, it's the one night that people get stupid belligerent, way too intoxicated, it's the biggest headache of the year. If it were up to me, I'd love to be closed entirely". A lot of our staff felt the same way; it's a dumb night in normal years, doing business as usual would be idiotic during a pandemic.
Where the province failed, though, was half measures and late notice. Late notice is obvious. This is something we should have seen coming (and our business did, we had a feeling something might happen so we didn't go overboard ordering; just common sense I think). I think if you asked most owners, if they'd have preferred to be shut down on New Years the whole time and then suddenly allowed to open with two days notice, that would be far preferable than being open the whole time and then shut with two days notice.
The other thing was, it was too much of a half measure. When you talk to businesses who are already non-plussed at shuttering at 10, which potentially costs them four hours of service time, to suddenly have that cut down to 8, they're going to be unhappy, but it's also not going to solve the issue. Frankly, I have seen chaotic New Years where bars close at 1 and people then flood out into the streets looking for the party to continue, looking for a bar that is open until 2 or 3. Then there's a rush at 4 when the very last of the bars kick everyone out and the streets are full of drunks. It pissed rain that night so unless you had a house party to go to (which I wager a lot of people did) or you had a tent in front of the art gallery to awkwardly mingle under ("Hey, I don't think the earth is round, but that butt certainly is"), you just didn't bother. It wasn't worth the effort trying to find places that would defy the bylaw (because I guarantee it was more than just the one we all know about).
It's time to stop the half measures and the toothless gestures. If we want to shut down, shut the whole fucking thing down. Not at 8 pm, entirely. Stop drinking, stop shopping, stop socializing, stop it all. Suck it up for two weeks and then we go from there. It's unfair to people who are in complete lockdown or people (like me) who are working in an office because we can't work from home, to constantly have the situation changing and modifying. Set a date, shut the lights down, and let's put an end to this fucking thing. Enough is enough already. Two hours isn't going to save any lives. Two weeks would.
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I wasn’t asking about compared to a normal year, people are mad about the last minute “no alcohol after 8 instead of 10.” How much did that affect you?
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On what is traditionally the busiest night of the year, in an already difficult year. An advance notice isn’t too much to ask imo
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But nothing about last year was traditional.
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And this action made that worse.
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Disagree- wholeheartedly. Had the public acted more responsibly I would’ve been on your side. But we know how things would’ve gone because of how everyone behaved during summer, Halloween & thanksgiving
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Yup at 8pm instead of 10pm.
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...which is exactly why the world order was upended that evening.
Understandable.
Maybe I'm missing something, but how were people still allowed to have NYE parties in restaurants at the time. This was less than 2 weeks ago. I thought nobody was supposed to cross health-region lines, let alone party within indoor spaces together.
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It wasn't for just for parties, it was for just regular old restaurants. NYE is the busiest night of the year for restaurants - people stay up later, eat dinner later and yes, drink more. The last minute change meant people couldn't even have a glass of wine at dinner. Honestly at my restaurant it didnt mean a big change, but the restaurant my boyfriend works at they had 160 people cancel their reservations. Assuming a $60 average cheque (which is on the low-end, particularly for NYE) that's $10,000 in lost sales.. That's a devastating loss for a single night.
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That's a devastating loss for a single night.
not to mention how much they spent on food cost for the night in anticipation of those 160 people eating there
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It wasn't for just for parties, it was for just regular old restaurants
How were restaurants open for dine-in less than 2 weeks ago? I'm super confused. I know that they must have been, but this Bonnie Henry character seems to have had a lack of foresight in all directions now that I think of it.
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you must not be from BC or you're playing up your user name....
Restaurants have been open for dine in for a while and our numbers aren't that bad in BC (apart from Fraser Health, but even then pretty solid).
Restaurants have NOT been the source of spread in BC.
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The only people who remain in a restauarant past 8 pm are hanging out and having drinks, maybe a few snacks.
No drinks basically just closes them at that point, theyd lose money keeping the restauarant open.
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We have a restaurant and as a food primary liquor license holder we do not rely on alcohol to make profit. Our food creates the profit and we provide alcohol as something to have with your meal. We closed at 1800 just to miss the NYE crowd.
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Yeah, your restaurant doesn't need to, so nobody else's should either!
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Did not say that, don't assume that I did.
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It would be nice to have an acknowledgement from the PHO that the last minute change caused disruption and cost to an industry already hurting. If it was important to do from a public health point of view, so be it. But it seemed a bit of a panicky decision that may not be logically defensible.
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I think the worry was that if they announced it a week prior people would make other plans to party together in their homes instead?
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If that is the case, then an apology to the industry is definitely in order. But I think that sound too devious. More of an honest mistake in my view.
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Honestly they are lucky the province doesn't just say Fuck It, you're all closed now. Like they have in Alberta, Ontario, Quebec.
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You know, that isn't luck. We aren't "lucky" that our government "allows" it.
We have all individually made sacrifices and made decisions that have paid off. Bc continues to skate past the worst, so far, of covid.
That isn't luck or good governance alone. That's the people of bc.
As a result, our life looks a bit more normal than others.
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Who the fuck actually needs a economy.
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Yes, they are. And they could, might and will if the virus continues to spread out of control. That would be a wise decision if the numbers warrant and there is real concern that dining in restaurants is not safe irrespective of mitigation measures. If we get to that point, I expect the PHO will provide more than 24 hours notice as was done in other Provinces.
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Why would we when our numbers are so much better?
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I mean she's got a point...
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It's tough, these days we are forced to choose between bad and worse. It's a shame that like 15-20% of the population can't be responsible.
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Indeed. And just going out on a limb to say that the people going out to party in restaurants and bars on New Year's Eve are part of that 15-20%?
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Deeming everyone going out is pretty harsh. I wanted to go and have a drink and appies with my live in partner since it's been a tough Christmas and we hadn't seen any friends or gone out in ages.
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I call bullshit on this. No one who was planning on going to a restaurant on NYE was ever intending to follow any of the PHOs.
We aren't supposed to socialize with anyone outside of our household. How many ppl over the age of 35 do you know who live with multiple roommates? That means it should be primarily couples only dining in restaurants..sure you might get the odd case of legal drinking age children and/or grandparents (but should they even be out at a restaurant given their high risk?) Assuming then that one of the two ppl dining in on NYE has to drive home... just doesn't add up. All those ppl who scrambled to cancel their reservations were not enraged about not being able to enjoy one glass of wine as the designated driver while their dining partner got overserved, they were enraged / cancelling because their smart plan of ignoring the PHO got foiled by Dr. Henry. Sucks for the restaurants, but they were clearly turning a blind eye in this case, especially for any group over two.
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Taxis/ride shares are still operating and believe it or not, some people actually live within walking distance of restaurants.
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Fair point. But would I be inclined to cancel if I couldn't go out for a nice dinner with my SO / family and not have a drink? No, especially given that going out to eat is one of the only things alot of people have to look forward to right now. Why not just have a bottle of bubbly to share at home after the restaurant closes at 10pm (as was always the plan).
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Is “furious” really the correct word? It’s not like all service got cancelled on NYE. Just serve the drinks earlier or package it to take home for those who got the NYE dinner packages.
Anyone else (customers) complaining got no right; fact that they were able to go out to eat and drink is more than most people were able to do.
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You can’t pour a wine pairing into a doggie bag. Doing two seatings, a 6pm and an 8pm, is common practice. Places offering menus with wine pairings that had bookings for after 8 just had to cancel those bookings or offer credit/refund. Most people opted to cancel. I would have too.
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If if makes you feel better alot of these people are going to lose everything and be forced to close and fire thousands of employees
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You guys have no fucking clue how fortunate BC has been during this COVID shit. We’re all lucky to be in this fucking comfy bubble where we’re not dealing with daily curfews. And all you can think about is your constant witch-hunt on Henry. Fucking shiny privilege is definitely showing.
Do you not remember how people behaved over Halloween?
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For being forced to stop serving alcohol 2 hours early on one night? You gotta chill bro.
No ones celebrating restaurant demise here. But it’s a bit ridiculous of a position to be outraged over a 2 hour window for again... just alcohol... on one night. Regardless of how late of a notice it was.
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Yea man that's a entire seating of people in an industry that's been a so fucked beyond belief. Do people like you even care about other peoples jobs?
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How much alcohol you chugging in 2 hours homie? That might be an issue you need to get looked at. They were never told to close up shop; just stop selling alcohol at 9pm.
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I can imagine they lost 8pm bookings because some customers want to drink, it's the New Year's eve afterall. Go ask anybody who works in liquor store, Dec 31st is always busy.
If the Health Ministry made the order earlier, restaurants would be able to tell customers when they book, and fill the bookings with customers who are OK without alcohol.
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and fill the bookings with customers who are OK without alcohol.
This lost opportunity is a real burn, honestly. I can't imagine that it would be huge numbers, but I have no doubt there's people who would have actually welcomed a dry seating on NYE. If restaurants had known, they could have booked it with people's knowledge and not had cancelations when the news hit.
I also imagine anyone who was selling tickets that included any wine or champagne also had to figure out how to placate the people who did still go and couldn't have what they paid for
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It’s about perspective. Your general public health perspective and the restaurant owner’s / hospitality worker try to earn SOMETHING to help prolong one’s financial runway perspective.
Thinking that any part of this is ridiculous is in itself ridiculous. We are ALL under a lot of unnatural pressure and right now, empathy is always a better alternative than derision.
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a lot of restaurants had bookings from 8-10pm based on being able to drink... they also presold new years eve packages during this time... it completely messes up their preparation/inventory and scheduling... it's a large amount of money lost during already tight times. i'm all for restrictions but it's not fair to restaurants to change this last minute when they had been planning for a long time. let them know even a week before to reschedule the bookings and plan accordingly. the day before is a mess. I'm friend's with the manager of a large restaurant and they were all frantically calling the reservations trying to reschedule them and avoid the loss. either way it's a loss when they are already losing money. also, people get angry at the restaurants, have a bad experience and have a negative perception of the restaurant/their experience when it's not the restaurant's fault at all.
a nice restaurant could have had 30 bookings from 8-10pm for a 3 course meal that's 100$ per person or double that with a wine pairing. how many of these canceled or could not be rescheduled depends restaurant to restaurant. either way, they should have had time to plan accordingly.
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They're incredibly lucky to be open at all. Everytime I walk by a restaurant window, there are groups of people from different households dining together in contravention if the public health mandate - meaning restaurants are doing fuck all to enforce the mandate. It wouldn't shock me if restaraunts are a major source of covid transmission at the moment.
So yeah, fuck right off with this nonsense.
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DBH said restaurants aren’t expected to enforce the mandate. As long as PPE is worn appropriately and mingling between groups is disallowed, they’ve minimized their risk. They’re running with half the staff and losing thousands a day, you want them to turn away business to enforce a government order?
Why not ticket people who live on Renfrew for going to the Burnaby Costco, because technically they’re crossing a health border non-essentially.
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The issue here is that they're complaining about this public health order related to drinking on NYE when they're already operating under extremely favourable circumstances compared to most other places in the western world.
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She will get no response until reporters ask about this during the covid updates. The NDP have a majority govt, no reason for them to acknowledge it.
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Some big players in the industry have signed that letter so I'd expect a response. While she's at it, Dr. Hero herself should explain to us how they come up with these rules. Are they throwing darts at a wall? Or playing a version of Plinko? Or maybe it's like rock, paper, scissors between her and Dix, where they each come up with some arbitrary rule and the winner gets to announce theirs?
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those restaurateurs should look at what Ontario and Quebec are like right now.
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So should they even bother anymore? What's the point of even trying to operate a bussiness?
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Ontario and Quebec are fucked, and a horrible example to compare ourselves to. Ford is a complete joke of a politician.
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we could call in Jason Kenney or the variety of other premiers lmfao
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So every day we spend with restrictions less than them is a gift and we should all be happy
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Why? Because her policies don't make sense? Or did it just not make sense because it negatively impacted the restaurant industry? If dead people aren't getting apologies, good luck getting yours
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This is prime popup environment. I wonder how many raves happened.
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I choose to suspend my criticism. There no experience to draw on. Mistakes will be made. People will be hurt. It doesn’t mean there’s bad will.
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This thread really showcases people that don't, and will never own anything significant (business, home, ect)
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A serious question that I asked the last time this came up, but which got lost in the wash:
Has there ever been a time when a stop-sale order for liquor was given in which the liquor stores were shut down, but the bars and restaurants were permitted to continue?
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I think they did that during some of the Canucks playoff games? Downtown core only...
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Super delusional. They should be on their knees for being allowed to stay open contrary to every other big province in Canada.
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Even a couple days notice would have allowed for better preparation.
Last minute shit like this fucks everyone up, customers, restaurants, and even makes the health authority look like they have no plan, which erodes public confidence and thus reduces compliance for future orders/recommendations.
Like unless the situation radically changes and it's an emergency, can we at least try to announce new policy changes like, a week before?
I agree with all the health orders, and get all the haste back in March, but now there is no reason so be making huge changes like this on 26 hours notice. You're going to lose a lot of public buy-in when things are done this way.
A point in the article I didn't think of.... People in the restaurant that weren't aware of the rule change.
I don't listen to the bonnie Henry meetings. I grab headlines on this stuff.
That's what happens when you politicize everything like the governments have.
Politicians politicizing things? RIDICULOUS!! ABSURD!! ABSOLUTELY UNFATHOMABLE!!
Close everything! But then keep schools and gyms open. Oh you're on a high school basketball team? No problem you can play with your team and against others. But want to visit your freinds home? Nope.
The most frustrating part is that she refused to acknowledge it was a last minute order. She said it didn't come out of the blue and they'd been signaling it for a while. I think everyone would have understood if she'd said "look, we know this is short notice but we need to do this because..."
If they announced it earlier people would have planned ways around it. It was a good plan.
Obviously I can't give full info on this without doxxing myself or others, but I am involved adjacent to the process and have back channel, and no...
It really really was not a good plan, and took everyone by surprise.
Those who were planning on parties at home were going to do them anyway. Those who had restaurant reservations were going to do them anyway. Those whose restaurant reservations suddenly had their rules changed and didn't want to not go if they couldn't have booze were now more likely to go to an unregulated party.
(and you should never believe unverified posts like this completely, shit is complex)