Pro Wrestling Torch on Twitter-747K for AEW Dynamite last night, 713K for NXT on USA. 0.31 to 0.16 in adults 18-49
twitter.com/pwtorch/status/136251922326063104...Posted Feb 19, 2021, 1:42 AM UTC
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Gender reveal pyro not a draw
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We can't know that for sure until Meltzer gives the breakdowns and we discover the gender reveal had over a million viewers.
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Seems like both products have settled. I really hope they both find growth this year.
Just my couch booking, but NXT needs to rotate some people out and AEW needs to trim some fat. NXT feels like a hamster wheel for guys like Gargano, UE, and Ciampa. AEW-wise I'm ready to not see sloppy acts like Luthor and TH2 on Dynamite anymore.
Loving Mox/Omega and the UE breakup though, both shows have been consistently good from what I've been able to watch. Good time to be a fan.
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Ironically, some people are complaining Ciampa isn’t doing enough. I also think Gargano is doing the best character work of his career and possibly all of wrestling, and the UE break up story has given them a new life for the moment (though I think this is leading to Cole’s exit from NXT).
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All great points really.
Like, I feel bad because I like Finn, Gargano, Ciampa, and Cole but the thing I liked about NXT was that it was always changing and always refreshing.
Now it's just RAW or Smackdown with more leather jackets.
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Tbh I was annoyed that Finn, Gargano and Candice were still there a few months ago, but now The Way is one of my favorite acts in wrestling and Finn is putting out some damn classics as champion.
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Now it's just RAW or Smackdown with more leather jackets.
Oof. Accurate though. NXT's been low-end for much of the last few months. Heavy on matches, low on reason, story or progression for anyone. As you say, a hamster wheel. I think to your point Gargano has successfully reinvented himself in the midcard (And I did not think that would be possible). For the others, Ciampa needs better writing. We need to stop thinking that "moving to Raw / Smackdown" is an end goal when someone's won a belt. It definitely used to be, so I get it, but it's not a catch-all solve to booking problems.
Meanwhile on AEW, as you say roster bloat is an issue. Frantic, messy booking is another, and I'd throw lack of focus in there. It's still trying everything, all the time. Which at times is very entertaining, or gives us great runs and story arcs. But there's a lot of dropped angles, cross-purposes booking and speed-running angles between a special every three weeks or so.
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I mean...Ciampa went from being "murder daddy" to ....the guy who used to be in a great storyline with Johnny.
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TV is dying, i wouldnt expect them to get more viewers, not losing them would be a win on itself.
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That's exactly it. On wednesday, there's about 1.6 million people who will watch live wrestling. On balance, TNT gets about 150k more each week, but both USA and TNT are benefitting from a live audience. That's good for them.
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Yeah I agree, I'm just hopeful for small growth or steady viewership so both shows continue.
It's not for lack of trying. Both shows are clearly firing on all cylinders and, like I said, it makes for a great time to be a fan. Easily my favorite period since ECW died.
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I seem to remember that a reason Ciampa is still in NXT is due to the travel demands of the main roster and since that is non-existent at the moment and seems to almost certainly be permanently reduced, I thought putting Ciampa on the main roster would've been the right time.
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He’s literally said he’d rather retire and go into coaching than leave NXT for the main roster travel.
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It'd be nice if he could fit in a feud with Randy Orton. Might be a good reset after Randy's done with all the Bray stuff.
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Put him in the ring with Orton on the main shows and he's depushed very quickly, he's way too small to play his character on the main roster.
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Oh cmon th2 is awesome
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If they are, they’ve yet to show it in any of their matches so far.
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Do you even watch NXT?
-3
Year to year
2020 - 893k AEW. 2021 - 741k
2020 - 794k NXT 2021 - 717k
So AEW lost 152k viewers
Nxt lost 77k viewers
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77
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Not looking good for AEW.
-6†
Nice cherry picking there. Last year this was the hit man episode with Jeff Cobb that was teased the week before for AEW two weeks out from revolution in the hot build to Jericho vs mox. On the NXT it was the fallout of Charlotte attacking Ripley driving the numbers.
This year, in AEW the build just started last night. The viewership will rise in the next three weeks as they approach revolution. For NXT, I would say the post PPV numbers are a disappointment.
If you want to make a case here, you have to go with trends over time. Take total viewership over a set period, you drop the highs and lows and you have your trend line. Stats 101
-26
Wait what
Are we saying Jeff Cobb is main reason had 154k more viewers last year
Jeff Cobb a bigger draw than sting ?
Wtf
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I don't know why they went with Jeff Cobb and not the Cody vs Wardlow steel cage match or the Lucha Bros vs Hangman Page and Kenny Omega title match
Last year was just a much better card honestly, nothing wrong with that
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nah they’re saying this was the heat of a build to revolution last year but they’re only starting to build this year.
i would argue that this time last year dynamite was at its most fun to watch because all of the hangman/omega vs bucks stuff, the red hot crowds, and mox story were all great.
personally love the current kenny stuff but there’s definitely less excitement for revolution this year
0†
Year to year:
2020 - .31 AEW. 2021 - .31
2020 - .25 NXT. 2021 - .16
So AEW held all their viewers in the key demos and NXT lost 36%
So AEW lost a bunch of people over 50+, but they held the money demo.
-51†
Both what I said and you said are correct
Good points on both ends
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:thumbsup:
-31
"Money demo"
Yes, because basement dwelling smark neckbeards are just what advertisers are looking for.
Wasn't the average yearly salary here, according to the last survey, something like $15,000?
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That's an impressive number for NXT compared with what they drew last week.
I guess this proves that announcing Big Money Stonks Cameron Grimes is appearing equals ratings. Oh, and coming off an excellent Takeover probably did not hurt either.
Both shows were solid and nearly 1.5 million Americans watched wrestling on Wednesday night. Let's be happy friends!
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This was right around NXTs average and AEW was down substantially from their average. Nothing to be too happy about for either show.
-17
Apparently AEW needs to do a couple 550-600k weeks so people are impressed when they gain up to 700k. Lower expectations and you never disappoint.
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^ this. I remember last year AEW would get between 800k 1 million viewers and 700k was weak for them.
AEW got higher viewers when it was its own product because it was easier to follow. The whole forbidden door stuff may be cool to hardcore fans but business wise its terrible and benefits everyone involved BUT AEW.
1†
To me, a casual wrestling fan in general, the reason that I struggle to resonate with AEW at the moment is because there's so much to keep up with. Dynamite, Dark, BTE, other side series. Sure, you could only watch Dynamite (like I do) but then I feel there's too many people on the roster at the moment.
I think what's part of the charm of early days Dynamite is that the roster wasn't huge like it is now. There was only the Dark Order, the Inner Circle and the Elite, and the Death Triangle, and a few other individuals unaffiliated with a faction.
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Of all the shows you mentioned, I only watch Dynamite, and I don't even watch it every week, and I don't have any trouble keeping up with the storylines.
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No story stuff happens on any of the other shows.
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This is just TK playing fantasy booking.
Having Okada or Ibushi show up won't move the ratings one bit for AEW. People in North America broadly don't care about Japanese wrestling.
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Right now they are doing an awful job of building people up though. Take Kenta for example.
Excalibur screaming "iTs KeNtA, tHe FoRbIdDeN dOoR hAs OpEnEd!!!" does nothing to get him over. Simply stating that he and Mox have a rivalry going on in a different promotion does nothing to get him over and only serves to promote NJPW.
It's similar to Dr Luthers debut except Kenta has an existing fanbase with people, at least on here. When Dr Luther debuted and he was called a deathmatch legend or whatever and no one cared because they had never heard of the guy. Being told to care about someone has never worked in getting someone over. That's essentially what's happening with Kenta, Bullet Club, Impact, etc right now, casual fans are barely being given reasons to care about these people and they are being booked as if they are already over with the entire fanbase.
AEW is still doing well for itself ratings wise (they are still way above their target), but they could be doing so much better (and were doing better last year).
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Or show growth. Attract a wider audience instead if relying on the same 300k 40 year olds who fucking hate Vince and pretend to know the names of ROH wrestlers
-7†
They have Shaq on, they are promoting Mox in the main event, they have Sting, the woman's match was amazing, Chuckie T almost killed someone, they announced a fn exploding barbed wire death match. I dont know what else main stream you want them to do other then get Punk and a full audience...
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Carny match, an already overexposed celeb and a wrestler from 3 generations ago aint gonna cut it.
Put on a wrestling show that isnt smark heavy and appeal to an actual wrestling audience. Forbidden doors with companys wihout any sort of reach isnt it.
Even Omega hasnt done anything stand out in this single run as of yet. Theres a lot of oh my god the cleaner is back posts but that goodwill seems to be acting as if he has brought all his history from Japan and is awesome again. Thats just not the case, theres little development on AEW tv to Omega if you think about it.
A lot of praise for the cleaner, a lot of praise for a title collection gimmick that never happened but what has he actually done in the AEW main event scene that a non smark can follow from start to finish?
-3†
Come on. Omega has been involved in Hangmans brillant long term story. Have you forgot his week where he had a 5 star Iron Man match with PAC and then possibly the greatest tag team match of all time 3 days later? His banger with Joey Janella on THE FIRST episode of Dark?
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Can always tell when someone is just constantly mad at a certain type of wrestling fan and it colors their entire interaction with the hobby.
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Both shows overperformed this week. Very well done by both companies. Losing the Texas markets is HUGE. A lot bigger than some on this subreddit realize. Just losing the #5 And #8 national TV markets alone (the DFW and Houston markets respectively, who were both under electrical blackouts) effects Nielsen ratings in a massive way. But the blackouts were worse that that, as practically the entire state was offline, including many “mid-major” markets as well.
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Thanks for the update
Why is this important thread so far down the list?
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1
you have to factor in that most of Texas had no electricity to watch either program live
1†
There's the excuse!
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so only people who watch AEW didn’t have power but people who watch NXT had power? Lol what
5†
Why are you putting words in their mouth? They literally said "either show", they made nothing close to that claim.
I don't think the Texas thing affected either shows ratings that much, but why do you have to outright lie and turn their argument into a tribalist thing?
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This thread is flooded by people from SCJerks is the reason.
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both shows would have had more viewers...where the hell do you see that i' said anything about AEW???????
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I think the point being made is that NXT had a decent bump, whereas AEW didn't.
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AEW should've taken the criticism they got from the NBA fans who were exposed to their product for the first time weeks ago, and started to clean up that show. Instead they've doubled down on the crap and all they'll be left with his a small diehard audience
0†
Yeah it's a shame they didn't learn from the constructive criticism of "lol Jericho fat now"
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They’ve gone all-in with goofiness in 2021. The butler angle really sticks out as a jump the shark moment. Multiple kidnappings on back-to-back week that lead to nothing? A guy being dragged behind a car?
6†
I may not be a fan but damn AEW has their dedicated fanbase who watch no matter what. That’s cool to see.
-7†
Idk it was a down week ratings wise for what I thought was a really good episode so that’s not really what happened.
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AEW was up 6000 viewers, and .2 in ratings in comparison to last week.
-3†
I guess I just expect a little more with all the fun crossover stuff and whatnot. They’ve had plenty of better ratings.
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all the fun crossover stuff and whatnot.
Does the average viewer actually give a crap about impact or new Japan?
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I don’t think it matters to them if nxt is losing viewers if they aren’t becoming new AEW viewers. Beating nxt was never the goal of AEW.
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Khan has essentially said the goal is to create a consistent "Top 10 show on Wednesdays" so that they can get that big upgrade in TV rights. The 2023 auto-bump for year #4 is rumored to be $100mil a year.
And yeah, I agree. Beating NXT is an afterthought at this point.
-2†
Their numbers are very erratic. Some weeks as high as 950k, while others down in the low 700k range.
3
they lost 10% of their audience from 2019 to 2020, and are down another 10% so far this year
-2†
If ratings truly are an indication of the previous week's show, then next week we find out what the threshold is for people who just care about the brand and will support anything with that tag on it.
-10
Don’t really know where your going with your argument and why did you phrase it in a negative way?
If I like a product then I will continue use said product. AEW for me has been very enjoyable and a great alternative than the other brand. Now if you want to enjoy both then by all means, but I am happy with my viewing choice.
6†
The idea is that we have a good chance to find out what that baseline is. It's interesting to think about how many people don't watch critically and are just into a brand.
For example with WWE, we've finally learned that number is about 1.5m, but with the huge numbers they started with and the company's legacy it took a very long time to weed it down to just those. A lot of people spent a long time waiting for them to get shit right before bailing. I thought the 3 million or so they had when I finally bailed was their low water mark, but I was wrong.
With brands with less legacy and fewer viewers, it should be easier to get an idea of that number. We could have a pretty good handle on it next week. I'm guessing 400k is going to be the lower limit among the waiters and the stans with about a quarter million stans.
-9
Ratings have never been an indication of the previous week’s show. It takes months to establish ratings patterns.
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When people say the previous week, it is actually weeks. People aren't going to stop watching just because of one bad week. It also reflects the obvious fact that people don't know if a show will be good until they actually watch it.
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-7
.31 is exactly what AEW did last year. Good for them.
-43
Is it good? That’s not growth.
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It's weird to me that anything short of consistent growth is seen as a negative.
What TV shows show consistent growth in viewership? The only thing I can think of are something like Game of Thrones or Breaking Bad, which were basically cultural phenomenons that pro wrestling can never hope to duplicate.
It seems to me like most TV shows (even pandemic aside, but especially post-pandemic) consistently lose viewers over the years - even those of which are critically or viewer acclaimed.
AEW staying relatively stable (with it's ups and downs, but generally within a consistent range) - at a number that far exceeded most people's expectations - seems like a good thing to me. Or, at the very least, certainly not bad.
20
What’s weird about it? A start-up company should expect to see some growth in the first 2 years of its existence. Otherwise, you’re just spinning your wheels and never going anywhere.
If your position is that AEW has already peaked, then that is pretty sad to be honest.
7
A start-up company should expect to see some growth in the first 2 years of its existence.
Have they not?
- They quickly grew into a new, more lucrative TV deal.
- They've grown their roster immensely.
- They're in the process of growing into a second cable TV show.
- They've launched a line of action figures that seem to be selling quite well and will be expanding to a second line shortly.
- They've launched AEW Heels.
- They're producing three video games.
- Their merch seems to be selling quite well (with some recent releases outpacing the old leaders).
- They've landed new international TV deals.
If you're going to talk about their status as a new company (versus just TV ratings), then it's very disingenuous to exclude the myriad ways they've clearly grown in their first couple of years.
And, oh yeah, they did it largely during a global pandemic that: A) no start-up would have reasonably expected to have to deal with in it's formative years; and B) has crippled so many businesses - new and old alike.
Is this their peak? There's no way to know. However, the idea that a company/TV show's fate is decided within it's first couple of years is absurd. There's plenty of both that don't really 'catch on' or otherwise experience growth spurts years down the line.
But even if this were their peak, if they can maintain it then I still don't think this a bad place to be. They're clearly the #2 promotion in the US and one of the most relevant wrestling companies in the world. And considering that #1 is a virtual impossibility, that's a fine spot to be in.
1
Its their first year ffs. You cant lose viewers from a year ago when your company is 18 months old and write it off as nothing.
2†
AEW has not had any sort of growth, they started with 1.5 million people interested in their show and are down to half of that
-7
You hurt your own case with silliness like that. It’s alarming that AEW isn’t growing, but the 1.4 million who tuned into the debut has nothing to do with anything.
WWE got 4 million for the debut of SmackDown on FOX. Now they get a little over 2 million on a good week. Nobody thinks WWE has lost half of its fans in 1 year.
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Only wrestling show aside from Impact who has not shown a decrease in ratings from the previous year.
11†
I would say the fact that they've maintained the same numbers during one of the most tumultuous years in the past several decades is probably a good thing.
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I don’t see why maintaining has to be a negative. Why must ONLY growth be good?
7†
I wouldn't say it's terrible either. The pandemic fucked up the whole industry overall.
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When everything else on TV is falling (especially during the pandemic) and when every other wrestling show is falling faster than the Top 25 is falling.... AND they are drawing the same, that is very good.
Brandon Thurston basically argued that if the trajectory stays the same, AEW is going to be beating Raw in the 18-49 before 2023
-2†
You realize that AEW and RAW are on two completely different nights, right?
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You can compare the demos. It's all based off potential 18-49 viewers. You just can't compare the ranks.
If AEW finished 3rd, and Raw was 4-6th, then it would be stupid to say AEW "beat" Raw, because it's different nights. But the demo percentage is absolutely comparable.
2†
That’s irrelevant.
1
That's not a competent method for predicting anything. If you pick a moment where Amazon stock is going down and stock in the law offices of Duey, Fuckem & Howe is going up, you can say that if the trajectory remains the same, Duey, Fuckem & Howe could be worth more than Amazon. It's so reductionist as to be obtuse.
8
We have 7+ years of trajectory with Raw. That's a pretty solid track record to say we're not going to see a random spike in the Raw Stock.
If you want to argue that we don't have a long enough track record of AEW, then I won't fight you on that though.
1†
Why was the last thread removed?
Mods seem to want to wait for official ratings and all that happened last few times ratings were late too.
PWTorch have been right the last 4 or 5 times there was a holiday delay. I think it's about time this sub stopped doubting them and deleting threads at this point.
It's not even "the official ratings" they always want to wait for, it's that one random website where they get their numbers.
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