Amazon is flooding the 'Avenger Controller' with one star reviews. Does it seem right that just because this Paul Christoforo is a douchebag that the creator of a great product should suffer?
Amazon Reviews:
I know it's probably the company N-Control for hiring this guy to do their marketing, but isn't this a fluke situation? A company hires a company to market a product who they think is reputable and trustworthy, instead the President (and possibly the only employee) turns out to be the scum of the earth.
I just feel for the entrepreneur who made the product, and now his company could be damaged or destroyed because of this.
Here is an article on the Avenger Controller creator:
http://www.ablegamers.com/hardware-news/interview-with-avenger-controller-creator-david-kotkin.html
Posted Dec 27, 2011, 5:02 PM UTC
1.2K339
The Avenger is safe as long as Ocean Marketting is fired. The second it is announced that a new company has taken over the promotion of the Avenger the internet will rally behind the product. All it will take for the company to maintain great sales is to fire Ocean and Paul.
Was just discussing the genius behind this fiasco: tens of thousands (if not millions of people) are now aware of a new product they might be interested in buying. As long as N-Control can carefully distance itself from Ocean Marketting, they might be able to save face and turn this novelty into a real cash cow.
Really? Too many examples of broken shipping dates for my tastes. While Ocean exacerbated the situation, it sounds like these guys have too many process control and inventory issues to spends money on yet.
TL;DR - each of these issues stemmed from products that did not arrive on time
upvote for truth - N-Control isn't innocent here. Missed dates, broken promises, and lack of communication. Even though they've hired OM as PR, they should be directing OM in many venues - verifying website data, shipping dates, etc., and delivering clear messages about product statuses. I work for a small company, and we do have issues with customs from time to time, but we meet across the board to ensure we deliver appropriate and timely updates. You can't just hire OM and tell them, "say anything you want, whenever you feel like it." N-Control and OM should be working together on this, and clearly they are not. Both parties at fault.
This. The company is clearly failing to deliver it's products on time, and isn't giving any explanation to it's customers.
Have you guys considered the possibility that there is no 'company'. There is only a licensed product in Taiwan or wherever that Paul is importing from and then reselling under US import law. Why do you think a 'Marketting*' company employee is receiving shipping support emails?
Also, on his linkedin page, his powerful marketing empire used to be called "Ocean Distribution"
Disclaimer: I know nothing about anything.
My analysis of what happened is this: A small company (Avenger) made a cool product and started trying to sell it. It didn't know how to advertise so it contacted a marketing company (Ocean Marketing) that it thought was good at what it did.
Small company didn't realize how popular its product would be, and is unable to meet initial demand. Marketing company thinks there is a massive demand and a huge (but smaller than massive) supply. But in reality there is a big demand, and small supply.
Marketing company thinks that it has more power than it does so it mis-treats customers and assumes there will still be amazing sales.
TL;DR - Small company didn't expect product to be so popular, and wasn't able to meet demand. Then the marketing company insulted customers instead of telling them the truth.
To the top with these comments!
I hope TL;DR-ing 3 sentences doesn't become a thing.
Twitter generation. 140 characters is our max attention span.
TLDR: wasn't long enough to warrant TLDR.
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if they do distance themselves, they deserve all the new revenue they get. This was never against Avenger. It has always been against Paul @OceanMarketting. Get rid of Paul and i bet everyone from PA, Kotaku, IGN, will make a post saying Paul is gone and to buy the Avenger, because the actually designed, not the PR team, cares about the customers.
I think the point saucercrab was making is that this could very well be a reverse psychology tactic, where a part of a company is made to look rotten so that it gets as much attention as possible, only to lose that rotten part and appear that much more "worthy" of our business.
This is probably untrue, and any claims by Paul (if he were to make any in the future) of this being premeditated will be utter lies, unless they can prove that this was planned way ahead of time.
Yes, thank you. I did not intend to imply I felt this was an intentional marketing scheme, but am glad to hear about Hanlon's Razor - something I was not aware of.
I can see Paul backpeddling like you described though, much like Tommy Wiseau after The Room was mocked by millions.
If this whole series of events was actually planned, whoever thought it up must be taking NZT-40. I, for one, never heard of this accessory before today. I still wouldn't spend $50 for a whole bunch of plastic though.
'probably untrue' seems unlikely: http://www.florida-annual-report.com/afternoon-artists-inc.html
seems like a clever way to generate publicity and save face after missing shipping deadlines.
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This whole thing got started because the item didn't ship on time. It was months before the Dave guy finally got it. That part has got nothing to do with Ocean Marketing.
If the designer/inventor cared about its customers, it would have split from Ocean Marketing the first time it happened, which I believe was earlier this year in March.
Why is it that every time these fiascos happen someone thinks it's a brilliant marketing strategy? It's not.
More often than not, companies lose money and people lose their jobs because of this shit.
tl;dr -- hanlon's razor
Perhaps the origin:
I've heard the New Coke story a dozen times, largely (no offense) by marketing folks I wouldn't trust to run a lemonade stand.
Certainly, it's an interesting story, and it proves that theoretically this could be done to great effect. There's no argument there. The problem is that
A.) It looks so simple when reality it's very difficult (more on that in a moment)
B.) It plays to the common fear of Marketing Conspiracy (which is understandable, but unfounded).
Having spent a large amount of time in the creative services industry I can say, without a doubt, that this would be suicidal for most companies to attempt. It's basically a company-wide Xanatos Roulette (WARNING: TV TROPES LINK) move and it means that everyone involved on the company's side must be incredibly clever, devious and capable of a very, very subtle hand. Because one false move and the game is up and you have pissed off customers rather than manipulated customers.
Also, it means that people have to be willing to potentially sacrifice their careers in the name of sales (and very few people are willing to do that).
In my experience, few people in the marketing world are capable of this level of intelligence, planning, endurance and potential sacrifice individually and it's even less likely in groups.
http://www.florida-annual-report.com/afternoon-artists-inc.html
My god... Paul planned this all along..
HE'S A MARKETING GENIUS.
marketting*
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I fall in the demo of people who had no idea what this was until this fiasco. I may consider buying one if this is resolved.
It'll probably be banned in competitive circles. Back in the day I did a lot of PC gaming. When people starting using this contraption, reboot and response times skyrocketed. It was hell, man, it was hell...
Person who just found out about this product today and is now interested in buying it here. If they fire this Ocean company I will buy the controller. I'm actually confused as to why this shitstorm was initiated against the marketing company in the first place? Do they usually handle preorders?
Even without Ocean Marketting, enjoy waiting 7 months to get it.
Nice touch
What if this was Paul's plan all along?! He truly is a marketting genius!
this. i had no idea about the product till all of this.
I'm not sure Ocean Marketing is going to get fired. Another redditor pointed out that Christoforo and Kotkin filed as a corporation in Florida.
This should be higher up in the comments. Someone posted this earlier somewhere else - the reason OM hasn't been spoken out against is because they're probably bro's and in this whole thing together.
My theory is that they started OM together to help market their own product, set up that fake website to make them look more legit, and since they obv. don't know what they're doing, and they're total jerks, this whole thing happened.
If they weren't, the Avenger controller's creators would have already said something. Definitely would have said something. This is tons news by this hour of the day.
Has anyone reached out to someone for comment?
That's a whole lot of speculation ya got there.
Take out speculation and Reddit comment sections would be emptier than Ocean Marketings next booth at Pax.
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Ocean Marketing did get fired. Another source.
*Marketting
I like your stratagy!
Those two are so linked together in this business there's no way Christoforo is fired. Sure Ocean Marketing might be fired (they already changed the name) but Christoforo is still there. They also have another company called Ocean Distribution. At this point Kotkin is probably so happy with Christoforo. I'm sure he's telling him to lay low while it blows over and they'll fire "Ocean Marketing."
I approve this message
It's been discovered that Christoforo and Kotkin, ncontrol's lead designer, are in cahoots.
From a reply in another thread I read that apparently this paul guy now works directly for N-Control, and something along the lines of "we cannot bend over for just a single customer.. blablabla" (essentially defending pauls actions).
I also remember reading (I think from the same thread), that apparently they are pretty buddy-buddy (paul and the owner of n-control).
So a) I don't think they are going to fire paul... and b) they actually defended his actions.
Take from that what you want.
...from a canon. Into the sun.
Why not a Nikon? Ba-dum-tish. I kid cos I love.
According to http://www.natesnetwork.com/Poor-customer-service, Ocean Marketting has been fired and the inventor is attempting to right everything.
They should have known more about the company that was representing them before hiring them, it sounds callous, but as a business they made an enormous mistake by not further investigating this marketing company before hiring them.
He is already fired
This is from an article I just read: "We apologize for our poor representation from Ocean Marketing," David Kotkin, the owner and inventor of Avenger Controller told Kotaku. "We wanted to give Paul a chance. He was rough around the edges, but he had drive and enthusiasm. However his behavior was unprovoked, unnecessary, and unforgivable. We are no longer represented by Ocean Marketing." Source: http://kotaku.com/5871479/pr-trolling-ocean-stratagy-out-of-business-avenger-controller-maker-asks-for-forgiveness
I just saw the examiner article and it mentions that Kotkin and this Paul guy had some other joint ventures in Miami together. That's kinda suspicious if you ask me. I'm not saying that the mfg can't be innocent but there are definitely some things that need sorting out.
The only difference between N-Control now and 10 months ago before they hired Paul was better grammar and a lack of profanity in e-mails. The overall operation was run the same: preorder, get charged, customer service keeps pushing back shipping date, 7 months later get part.
You sure about that? When Godaddy.com backed away from SOPA I didn't see the internet rally around them. I think the internet is a little less forgiving than you think.
The problem with something like this is that it is forever...even if the "internet" forgives them, there are still 100's of 1 start reviews on Amazon for the product. Not everyone who goes looking for this product is going to know the whole story behind the reviews.
all the reviews make it abundantly clear that they never got their products and are talking only about the customer service they received
Well, I'd bet cash money that a good chunk of those people never even ordered the product. I find it hard to believe that everyone decided to review the product on 12/27.
It was discovered that godaddy sponsored sopa. Also, godaddy is the same company as, well, godaddy. Short of maybe firing the ceo as a scape goat, there is little to physically separate a company from itself. This is a different situation altogether. OM is not the same company that makes the avenger. So the company that makes the device could, in theory, hire a new marketing company, publicly denounce all future business relations with OM, and explain that they were unaware of OM's handling of these sales.
Of course, that would all likely be moot now since a few internet sluethers have discovered that Christoforo and Kotkin appear to have deeper connections.
Regardless, I do feel the internet tends to handle most things in a very mob mentality.
That's why any marketer or PR person worth his or her salt knows better than to act like an idiot on the Internet. I work in 'net marketing, and I constantly lecture business owners on the importance of being judicious in the ways they choose to speak to people, whether it's replying to a customer service inquiry, tweeting general stuff, posting to Facebook, replying to a negative review (hint: do NOT ever do this unless you absolutely have to - there are certain types of situations where you do have to, but only a few - and certainly don't act like a tool when you do it, no matter how wrong you feel the reviewer is), or whatever.
You can't really predict how the Internet will react - sometimes we bandwagon it on down the road with torches and pitchforks in hand, sometimes we ignore it - so it's much better to err on the safe side and shut your yap if you don't know what you're doing and/or don't have a firm grasp on how your demographic tends to operate. If, for example, your target demographic is hardcore gamers, then you're dealing with a group of people that are more Internet savvy than the average Joe, and not afraid to call shenanigans, even when calling shenanigans is likely unwarranted.
This is why smart celebrities often hire other people to tweet for them or blog for them. The ones that don't are often the ones that end up saying something stupid and attracting the ire of the 'net, and the same goes for businesses. Small business owners are particularly vulnerable, but as we're seeing with the current GoDaddy debacle, it can happen to the big guys, too - the only difference is that GoDaddy has enough in the way of resources that they can likely ride it out, whereas a small business owner just doesn't have that luxury.
godaddy helped write sopa while having sopa stuff on their site and then decided that supporting sopa wouldn't cost them customers laughed at the idea of dropping support and then when people started leaving godaddy they withdrew support but did not announce opposition. that's why people hate godaddy.
as long as it isn't some one like Andy Marken of Marken Communications. Sweet zeus that guy can kill a product with his pinky ring 70s bling. He looks and acts just like Ron Burgundy with out meaning to and looks like John C. Reilly's Tim & Eric character.
http://i.imgur.com/DUxLF.jpg
They have fired Ocean and Paul.
They won't rally behind it at all. Destroying something is easier than building something up. Most people will switch off and expect other people to put the effort in. The things dead in the water thanks to neckbeard vindictiveness.